A dear friend of mine, also a neverMo, recently relocated from here in the SF Bay Area to Boise, ID when her husband accepted a job transfer. Although they were sad to leave behind family and friends here, they were very excited about being able to afford a better home at a much lower cost compared to the Bay Area, and to escape the increasingly-awful Bay Area commutes.

I chatted with my friend a couple of days ago and asked her how her daughters have adjusted to their new school in Boise. Her older daughter is very happy, which is a relief and a surprise, because she is slightly socially awkward as well as unusually intelligent for her age and therefore tended to be a bit bullied and excluded at her previous school. However, the younger daughter, who has always been very social and popular, is suddenly feeling excluded and unhappy in the new school.

As it turns out, my friend and her family have moved to a heavily-Mormon neighborhood, and it seems that while Mormon kids are not a majority in the older daughter's class, the younger daughter's classmates are "mostly Mormons," according to my friend. Other moms are already approaching her asking when the younger daughter can attend church with them. My friend and her family are Catholic, and she has politely told the Mormon moms, "Thank you, but we're Catholic." She said one mom pushed the issue saying, "But your daughter pointed out our [Mormon] church to my daughter and said her family was going to start attending there." My friend explained that this was when they first moved to the neighborhood and had not yet found a Catholic church to attend, and that her daughter wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a Catholic and any other church--she just saw a church building and assumed they would be going there because it was close to their home.

My friend is also experiencing incredible rudeness from some TBMs there. She told me she asked one mom recently, "Would you like to join us for coffee?" since she and another mom were going to go to Starbuck's after dropping off the kids at school. Instead of saying "No thank you," the TBM mom said nothing. Nada. Just walked off.

Then, she said only last week she invited one of their neighbor's daughters over to play with her younger daughter, since they are the same age. The girl's mom is TBM but gratefully agreed to the playdate (possibly because she has eight kids). After a few hours, the woman texted my friend to say her husband was coming over to pick up their daughter. My friend answered the door to him and did what any normal person would do: "Hi, I'm so-and-so. Great to meet you. Your daughter is so sweet. They've been having a good time."

My friend said the dad completely ignored her--he said absolutely nothing in response--no "Hello," no "Thank you," no introduction. She said he barely looked at her and just waited for his daughter to come to the door, then walked away with her, again without a word. My friend was stunned, to say the least.

I really hope she and her family are not going to end up experiencing major shunning, although she did say she has already made a couple of good friends who are neverMos also, so I don't think she'll be totally isolated. She is worried about her girls, though, especially the younger daughter.

I knew Idaho had a fairly significant Mormon population, but I am surprised it is that extreme in Boise, especially to the point that my friend is experiencing that level of rudeness. Is this generally the case with Idaho Mormons? It sounds more like extreme Utah behavior from what I've learned on this board.

Behold the fruits of mormonism.

"We don't Shun." Jeffery Holland Mormon apostle.

I beg to differ. It was astonishing what happened to me when the news of my disaffection with the church was made known. It was like I'd been transported into the Twilight Zone.

The shunning is worse in areas highly populated by mormons due to the "avoid even the appearance of evil" teaching/mentality which drives being watched/judged constantly by other mormons.

"so sister so and so. I saw your little girl playing with that Catholic family. I don't think the Bish or the lord would approve of those associations. Your sweet little girl could be taught most anything over there. I would never let my child play over there or heaven forbid spend the night! I'm just looking our for your children's welfare now sister so and so".

Sorry for The Children of the Corn treatment.

Not all mormons will act this way and some will act this way not because they want to but because they never know who is watching and so to avoid trouble with the "group" they will shun just the same.

There are a few mormons who will not shun (like christ taught) but those are scattered.

So now you know the level of fear that is taught inside the church about outsiders. To them your level of morals can not be trusted even at the cost of normal social interactions.

To them you hold the possibility of contaminating their chance to be a family together in heaven.

"We don't Shun."

"We just don't interact with people who are beneath us."

It will be a good education in the effects of cult thinking.

Sanctimonious dickweeds.

"And we're socially inept because we've never had to make actual friends. The church supplies them for us."

That's too bad. :-( I'm so sorry you had to be shunned too, which I am sure was infinitely worse for you since Mormons had been your "people."

I'll share this with my friend so at least she'll be prepared for what the future may hold. To be clear, she did not say all the Mormons she has met there have been rude--it's just that those few instances have been so extreme.

My friend is also, despite being a devout Catholic, pretty politically liberal. She is pro-choice, very much in favor of gay rights (her SIL is a lesbian and married), etc. However, she said she has been keeping her political views to herself, so I don't think that has anything to do with the rude treatment from some people. I hope these instances of over-the-top rudeness remain just that--isolated instances.

Also, I am grateful that as crazy as my two good TBM friends here in the Bay Area have been on occasion, at least neither of them has ever prevented their children from playing with mine!

Shun, shun ye saints
No toilet labor fear
All is swell, all is swell

Some board members have shared that there are certain places in the greater Boise area that are *very* Mormon, and plenty of places that are not so much. Your friend seems to have had the bad luck of picking a home in one of the Mormon areas. I'm sorry that her younger daughter is being treated poorly.

Hmm. I went to college there, but don't remember it being that snobbish (except for the college ward for singles where I attended for a time. Okay, there were some real snobs there.)

I would see if your friend can get the younger daughter transferred out of that school into either a charter school or another district school that would be more suited to her (if that's an option.) School is as much about socialization as it is education. She doesn't want her child off on the wrong start that may only get worse, and has already stigmatized her.

Boise is a great city, with a fairly diverse population. One of my step-sisters lives there. Her children were raised Catholic though she was raised LDS. Her daughter and grandchildren live nearby, but I'm not aware of any shunning of them by their peers. I would surely try to steer your friend into removing her daughter from that school, based on religious grounds, possibly invoking federal discrimination laws. She is being discriminated because of hers.

Thanks for the responses. I don't read this board as much as I did a couple of years ago, so I'm afraid I never noticed threads regarding super-Mormon neighborhoods in the Boise area. I wish I had, because I certainly would have alerted my friend and her husband to that when they were looking for homes. I believe the deciding factor for them in the neighborhood they ended up choosing, other than that they liked the house and could afford it, was that the public school there is highly rated and has small classes.

AmyJo, your advice is right-on. Fortunately, my friend taught first grade for over 15 years in both public and Catholic schools in CA, so I assume she will complain to the appropriate authorities about discrimination if things don't improve soon for her younger daughter. She's pretty well-versed in those issues. She also mentioned she might end up putting the younger daughter in a Catholic school, although it would be a hassle since the public school is within easy walking distance of their house, and she'd also prefer to keep her daughters in the same place. Anyway, thanks again for the feedback.

It actually sounds like a bit of cultural shock as well.

In most of the world, inviting someone for coffee or tea is a universal sign of friendship and hospitality. In Mormondom, they are taught this is a horrible sin and run away. They just don't know how to react to the invitation. Saying you drink coffee declares yourself as a heathen.

Mormonism also tends to create socially awkward people when exposed to the outside world. They don't know how to have a normal conversation with people without bringing up the cult. Their entire lives and everything they do is somehow related to the cult.

I live in an area in WA with a lot higher percentage of mormons than when I lived in CA. I only knew 2 mormons in the 12 years I lived in CA. Here I have a bunch of neighbors who load up the van every Sunday. I personally deliberately provoke them with normal adult conversation. Comments like going fishing and bringing a thermos of Irish coffee etc. It's a lot of fun.

the1v Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It actually sounds like a bit of cultural shock as
> well.
>
> In most of the world, inviting someone for coffee
> or tea is a universal sign of friendship and
> hospitality. In Mormondom, they are taught this is
> a horrible sin and run away. They just don't know
> how to react to the invitation. Saying you drink
> coffee declares yourself as a heathen.
>
> Mormonism also tends to create socially awkward
> people when exposed to the outside world. They
> don't know how to have a normal conversation with
> people without bringing up the cult. Their entire
> lives and everything they do is somehow related to
> the cult.
>
> I live in an area in WA with a lot higher
> percentage of mormons than when I lived in CA. I
> only knew 2 mormons in the 12 years I lived in CA.
> Here I have a bunch of neighbors who load up the
> van every Sunday. I personally deliberately
> provoke them with normal adult conversation.
> Comments like going fishing and bringing a thermos
> of Irish coffee etc. It's a lot of fun.

I know what you mean about "socially awkward people when exposed to the outside world." One of my dear TBM friends not only grew up here in CA but, of all places, in the Napa Valley--one of the world's great wine capitals. However, she is so visibly uncomfortable around people drinking even one glass of wine (as I have observed when she has come over for dinner parties, etc.), I don't know how her family managed to live in Napa without driving into a ditch every time they passed a winery! So, yes, I can't even imagine what the culture shock must be like moving as a NeverMo from the Bay Area to a heavily-Mormon part of Utah, Idaho, wherever. I still do not think anything excuses the TBM dad giving my friend the silent treatment when he came to pick up his daughter, though.