I've been wondering about this a bit lately, and have come to some conclusions and some questions.

I imagine that "God" (and the rest of the substance of the Cosmos) has pretty much been around forever, because I can't envision a Cosmic beginning or end.

This "God" has enormous creative and organizational power, because I think it put together the building blocks of the universes, and set them in motion. Maybe with no more purpose than a toddler playing around with Tinker Toys - I don't know.

I think that this "God" is aware of itself and its surroundings, but I don't think it is aware of us as individuals (any more than we are aware of, say, a particular ant somewhere in the Amazon rainforest) and has neither the means nor the interest in communicating with us. Perhaps that is why we often have pleaded in the past for some kind of divine intervention and been left on "hold" until we gave up.

It is more of a natural force - like gravity - than a personality, which makes it difficult to feel a "relationship" to it.

I think it is probably a kind of hubris on our part that wants to shape "God" into a humanoid sort of creature. It is almost certainly much more than that, and WAY beyond the need to "relate" to beings such as ourselves.

Maybe that is why I never felt any kind of connection to God, or a need for a "personal relationship." That would be like trying to relate to something utterly unlike myself, like the sky.

How do the rest of you see this Once-and-Forever Being?

I don't.

RB

One possibility is found in "The Lost Book of Enki"

Your description dovetails very closely with my own.

I don't see "God" as a supreme being, or a supreme anything. Maybe "ubiquitous" is closer to it. I see "God" as the most accurate depiction of reality. Mathematics is full of God, as is nuclear physics. The Periodic Table is scripture.

"God" has a moral and ethical aspect, leading all the way up to altruism. I find ants to be quite Godlike. Ants will routinely drown themselves to build a bridge of their corpses so their companions can get from Point A to Point B. I ain't that selfless--I'm less Godlike than your basic ant.

I catch glimpses of "God" from time to time: in the geometry of Kepler's Laws, in the exquisite pleasure of an orgasm, in the smile of a baby, in the languorous stretch of my cat as he lolls about on the bed.

But "God" as some humanoid-type dude like in the paintings at church? Talk about the height of human arrogance.

huh ?

Whatever people see in the mirror is generally the source of the attributes they assign to the gods they make up.

Then, they'll say the opposite and insist THEY were made in the image of God. Funny how the god's nature reflects the culture of the time.

You're almost there, OP.

Why does "the universe" require a creator?

We now understand plate tectonics to a large degree, and no longer believe that volcanos, earthquakes or tsunamis are devine punishments.

Scale up.

Because we don't yet have a complete understanding of the universe, does that impose the requirement of supernatural intervention, or as you suggest, creation?

Your rationale seems to imply the "god of the gaps" fallacy. You can't relate to or describe god, no one can yet *fully* describe the universe, but *something/someone* had to have made it happen. It can not have been nothing more than a chemical reaction.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps


I can't relate to a god because I can see the evidence of chemistry at work, while any evidence of a god "toying" with the universe is nil. A famous (or infamous for some) question in return:

Who created the creator?

sorry -

It could not have been only a chemical reaction.

I hate it when that happens ;/

After leaving the LDS faith and finding out it was the creation of a warped con man I figured the whole god thing is all man made. I don't remember anything before I was born so the only conclusion I can reach is complete lights out at death. I don't wish it to be that way but chances are real good its over when it's over.
And if there is a god, I'm not at all impressed, I think of god as a psychotic monster.

I think God came about tens of thousands of years ago when a volcanic eruption happened, and Heaven came about when a little had to be comforted about his grandpa being gored to death by a wild boar.

Imaginary

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

A smoking hot babe with infinite patience who never gets pissed off at anything I do and is always ready for sex at a moment's notice. Hey, if you're going to imagine things that can't exist, imagine big.

God = God Particle,
minus the particle (since it's a field of energy, between the ghost particles and the rest of matter)
=oceanic oneness,
singularity, at the center of everything
Every galaxy and atom
there is an eternal engine that is singularity.

The mystery of the black hole is how everything can come from nothing? How can all of that plasma flow out to make up 99.99% of our visible universe? Hawking Radiation. There are no black holes, because there's as much energy flowing out of a black hole as there is energy flowing out of a black hole.

IOW, there's a continual loop of destruction and creation.
What we call a "Black Hole" is really just the inside of an incredibly powerful force, where matter turns into energy.
Where energy turns into matter is at the acretion disk around the black holes.

Making matter out of "anti-matter" or "Dark Matter" like an endless loop between our 3D universe and what could be a 4D universe inside the singularity at the center of the black hole.
It, like every other black hole we've ever mapped, is moving towards the Great Attractor at a constant speed, about 14MIllion MPH, and pulling our galaxy and every other galaxy in our neck of the woods, (Laniakea) towards the Great Attractor.

@ 1/48th the speed of light,

which slows down long enough, to become,
stardust


E=mc^2

m=E/C^2

Which accumulates at the accretion disks of the galactic plane, between the dark matter and dark energy,
Between the matter and anti matter,
Between the super symetry

The Zen Buddhists were right all along.

God, the Creator, is a lot like the Tao.

responsible for maintaining the balance and order of this universe for at least 13.8 Billion Years that we know of, which resulted in you reading these lines from my mind.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2016 12:53AM by koriwhore.

catnip Wrote:
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> How do the rest of you see this Once-and-Forever
> Being?

Since I see no evidence of or need of any "Once-and-Forever Being," I don't imagine anything about it.

Personally, I prefer facts to imagination. But if imagining does something for you -- great. Imagine away. Have fun.

I imagine God to occupy some of the dimensions predicted by unified field theory.

I see god as the figure that Michael-Angelo painted on the Sistine chapel ceiling, Sort of a contemporary surfer kinda looking dude. Well past middle age but still ready to catch the next wave. He has long white straight hair that flows, He's rather thick set like the Greek God Zeus. Sorry to offend but he ainta she, and he is Caucasian, and he's got blue eyes and tanned skin from sunbathing.

Arials father from little mermaid maybe?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2016 09:02PM by poopstone.

Your wrong because she is black.

My belief although hard to conceptualize and understand as a human.

Something I have normally said is God and us, our essence, are 'intelligent energy' that is only part of the equation.

Here is another, fuller version of that. God is the creative energy of the universe, expressing itself as us and everything else. Wherever we are, God is. Like God, we are constantly expressing ourselves in some way.

That is not to say we and everything else do not exhibit some independence from God and we can make our own decisions. However, we are all connected to each other and everything in the Universe.

This 'interconnectedness' allows such things as 'intuition/psychic events, gut feelings, knowing' etc. to occur.

My 2 cents.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2016 01:14AM by spiritist.

The creative force that lies behind all that is....

I found myself in a very liberal church that teaches pretty much "The Cosmos is the reflection of God's imagination." And it works right down at out level. Imagine winning, imagine succeeding, and work very hard at it, and voila, you will succeed.

And then I see the memes of Fidel (who terrified many American schoolkids back in the 50s, and our "duck and cover" drills diving under our desks) thundering "I will not die until America is destroyed."

This, paired with images of the Orange One all smiling and happy, and another of a dead-looking Fidel in his final stillness.

It's around four in the morning and I just woke up (not having been particularly distressed at bedtime, having been happily engrossed in a Patricia Cornwell mystery) with my heart hammering irregularly at 108 according to my blood pressure monitor, with that triptych of Fidel/The Donald/Fidel in my mind as I jolted awake.

I know this is related to politics, but more so, I think, to generalized anxiety, and was wondering if anyone else has had similar reactions to the current situation?

I keep telling myself, "Hell, we survived worse, just chill out and don't worry about it."

And I just took a pill to slow my heart rate down. I think just venting my most frightening thoughts and conclusions here helps.

Thank you all, just for being there for a shaky old lady.

I share your anxiety, catnip, for the immediate future of our nation.

Many on my social network feel the same way as you. The realization that we may be living on the brink of catastrophe (from one day to the next,) and walking on eggshells from here on out, is a dangerous turn of events.

Of course, surrendering to our fears and anxiety is the last thing we want to do.

It's the old "Hope for the best, while preparing for the worst," mindset IMO, that may help us survive what lies ahead.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2016 07:03AM by Amyjo.

Especially after doing so much research on cults, social psychology, and reading The True Believer.

I saw the meme you're referring to, and it gave me the heebee jeebies.

Complete and total fiction, IMO. I require evidence to believe in anything -- I'm really not superstitious at all. So if some evidence ever comes to light, great. But I highly doubt it will. I mean we've been through 5000 years of recorded history with no concrete evidence whatsoever.

So if you require evidence to believe anything, I take it you don't believe in the 96% of the universe you can't see, or measure that scientists call "Dark Matter/Energy" for lack of a better term?
Without it all of our math is off by about 96%.
It's a fudge factor. A place holder until we really figure out why 96% of the universe that should be there, isn't there.
Kind of like black holes, that are not black at all. We just call them black because we can't see all of the plasma and energy flowing out of them in the form of plasma jets, until recently. Until HAwking figured out Hawking Radiation.
And the rest is history.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2016 01:32AM by koriwhore.

Blah blah blah, I really don't want to argue because I suck at debates. But there's a huge difference between something SUGGESTED by scientific data, like "dark matter" or black holes, and theism. Because the former actually has at least the beginnings of "evidence" that it exists, as you pointed out yourself. While the latter is not suggested or necessitated by anything at all, except human imagination.

I really like your definition of how you imagine God is, catnip.

I envision him in somewhat the same way as a mysterious but very capable creator to have engineered a Universe (or multiverses,) as vast as ours, between the minuteness of it all to the vastness bigger than anything my mind can begin to comprehend.

I've had many prayers of mine answered in the course of my lifetime. And witnessed some divine intercession on my behalf that was "other worldly." If not for those events that has shaped and molded my faith and beliefs in something more than this, I may have become an agnostic or atheist.

It wasn't signs, miracles, or wonders I sought, mind you. For them to happen at all was proof enough for me there's a divinity and a Creator who watches over us, and cares for us each one, uniquely, as the individuals we are.

I imagine (perhaps wrongly, but still) that since God couldn't be everywhere we are at the same time, there are guardian angels who have been delegated authority to bless/guide/protect and otherwise watch over his children on Earth. I believe we have spirit guides and loved ones who also watch over us. I just don't pretend to have all the answers.

That which is beyond Imagination.

If you can think it, it's not God. Whatever image you can think, comes up short.

A very fair assessment.

Try imagining the vastness of the universe. The amount of matter, anti matter, energy, space, and I'll bet there is anti energy, as well as anti space/extra dimensions. Then try imagining something that could be the catalyst for all of it.

The bottom line is that I have a very high opinion of myself and I don't think that eight billion of me combined together could conceptualize what it might take to be god.

On the other hand, I find it very simple and easy to state that I see no reason for there to be a god.

jacob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> On the other hand, I find it very simple and easy
> to state that I see no reason for there to be a
> god.


That one isn’t so easy for me.

For a moment, let us forget capital “G” God and Vastness and Energy and etc. Let’s confine ourselves to a little “g” god, one that we all know well: Aphrodite’s son, Eros.

Who can deny that when love hits us it is as if it comes from outside ourselves? One minute we are our normal selves, the next we are filled with a kind of madness. The ancient Greeks feared this like they feared an assault, and indeed often described it as an assault. From the Iliad: one afternoon Helen of Troy is walking along the wall and out of nowhere Aphrodite materializes and makes Helen *desire*. Helen tries to resist, but once hit it cannot be undone. Isn’t this exactly what happens?

One moment we are normal and in control of ourselves; the next we are as if assaulted. Something outside ourselves seems to take control of our mind and body. Our sense of time and reality is altered. Our ability to reason is diminished. It feels like insanity, a sickness. We literally swoon. We can’t stop our lips from smiling. This experience is described by the Greek poets as an assault, as being caught in a net or shot with an arrow, or as a devouring a melting a burning; a fucking disaster, really. We don’t see it coming. Eros surprises us and then we are taken over. At that point we are lost, we are mad. We are in love. Eros has wounded us.

Now, where did this desire begin? How did it enter us?

I have fallen in love, and I have suffered from acute love-sickness. And how it is describe by the poets, as a surprise, unlooked for assault from outside myself, rings exactly true for me. Eros has visited me.


I cannot so easily dismiss God because this experience of Eros has been reported through the ages; of being one way and then suddenly being another way completely. Some claim a similar experience coming from capital “G” God (W. James Varieties of Religious Experience). What gives these experiences some credence is that they change those who experience them permanently and very dramatically.

To imagine something is one thing, to experience something is something else. It is more real. Although my experience with Eros is very tiny in caparison to something on the road to Damascus, say, I can use my experience to extrapolate the credibility of those bigger experiences other’s report.

Late for Dinner. Cheers,

Human

I don't believe in a deity but I do consider that God is an evolved human need.

After reading Sylvia Plath's poem, "Daddy" this week, I wrote this as part of my analysis:

Plath, like Welty uses vivid descriptions to engage the audience in her poetry, “Marble-heavy, a bag full of God/ Ghastly statue with one gray toe” to paint a macabre picture of her father’s ordeal with gangrene (Plath, 1057). The main difference to be noted is there is an air of hope with A Worn Path that you don’t find in “Daddy” which is darkly morose to the point of hopelessness.

Doing a little digging around, I found that her father, Otto, had Nazi sympathies and that explains her almost scathing criticism of her father, “I made a model of you. / A man in black with a Meinkampf look” (Plath, 1059 & Staff). I cannot imagine the horror of knowing your father sympathized with ideals that are held up as the evilest to this day and perhaps this sheds more light on Plath’s bouts of depression and suicidal ideation (Gilbert & Gubar).

In the middle of the poem “Not God but a swastika/ So black no sky could squeak through/ Every woman adores a Fascist,/ The boot in the face, the brute/ Brute heart of a brute like you” is perplexing if you don’t understand the context of her personal trial. Children often imagine god like their father figure and vice versa, so for Plath to process this concept must have created so much cognitive dissonance that could only be expressed in a conflict between love and loathing.

So for this week, god= father figure in a metaphorical sense.

I intensely dislike the word "God" because it is usually used to describe a man-made myth of a personal entity--the one who hears prayers, saves certain individuals from catastrophic events, has mysterious ways, and a "plan for everyone and everything," who "never gives you more than you can handle" and has a very unhealthy and creepy desire/need to be worshipped, feared, and adored, all at once.

I envision that which is beyond me as something like, "universal consciousness," which binds everything together--stars, planets, ants, people, animals, trees, oceans, any and all life on other planets and in other galaxies, as well as the air we breathe while we are "alive," whatever that ("alive") might mean.

By the way, the Unitarian-Universalists refer to it as "The interdependent web of existence, of which we are all a part." I kind of like the simplicity of that.

The nature of god is clearly to be non-existant.

HH =)

Even if I make the assumption that there is a god, in spite of there being no evidence to indicate one, I couldn't begin to imagine what its nature would be.

For me, it's more about what its nature is not.

It does not give a darn about us. It does not intervene to help us. It is not compassionate and/or loving. Any time I see a child suffering from cancer, I realize this.

It does not provide us with a decent home. We can bake to death in the Sun, freeze to death in the cold climates. The Universe is ever trying to kill us via solar storms, meteors, comets, radiation, or on earth tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, volcanoes, thunder storms, etc.

The only thing I can surmise is that we are its entertainment. Somehow it gets its entertainment from watching us go through all of the crap that we go through, just trying to survive from day-to-day.

Doesn't matter to me which side of the coin you are on - both sides evolutionists and creationists neither answer the fundamental question that both try to address.....

Religion hasn't answered it - science hasn't answer it.....

And neither of them will....