Anyone else not do the Santa thing with their kids? We still celebrate Christmas and give gifts, just without the Santa part (After realizing that TSCC is a big fat lie, I have a real issue with telling my kid something is "real" when I know it is not).

This year it shouldn't be an issue because she is only 2, but next year I expect that she and I will have the conversation that Santa and Jesus are just stories and that some adults and kids pretend that Santa is real because it is fun (actually, that applies to Jesus too). However, I know for many of my friends (people who I would like to remain friends with) its very important to them that their kids keep believing in Santa as long as possible (although I wish they would tell their kids about Krampus too, rather than that elf on the shelf thing. That might inspire those sugared-up kids to behave a bit!)

Any tips on teaching my kid to be respectful of other's Christmas beliefs? It's a skill that I expect would translate to being a lifelong respect of other's religious beliefs (as in, "No, TBM Grandma, I don't believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet, but I accept that you believe that he was.")



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2016 06:38PM by westernwillows.

We don't "do" santa. My two older kids knew santa was "fake" by age 4 or so, and I simply let them know that other kids' parents liked to pretend he was real, so it might be a good idea to not spoil it for the other kids -- but that it was up to them.

As it turns out, most of their friends had figured it out on their own by age 5 or 6 anyway -- kids aren't nearly as clueless as many parents seem to think they are. They just don't tell their parents they know, so they can still get presents from "santa." :)

I still remember the embarrassment and confusion I felt when I realized I had been conned by the Santa Myth. I was in the fifth grade and 'testified' to my classmates that I 'knew' he was real because I had seen him putting out the Xmas gifts.

I found out later that year that I had been set up. The 'Santa' I had seen on Xmas eve was mother in a Santa Suit. Older sister was in on it (and had rolled me out of bed when all was ready and sneaked me to the crack in the door). They all had a good laugh at my expense. I shocked that I could not trust the adults in my life and that they would be so crass as to want to humiliate me. It's one thing to have a good laugh with someone and quite another thing to laugh AT them.

I know many would look at this as just a good bit of fun or a good teaching moment. And I can see that point as well but I still feel the blood rush to my face as I think about telling my fiends and peers that Santa was real and that I had seen him. To me it was hard to just laugh off. Similar feelings of shame and humiliation were there when I realized tscc was fraud. I had born my testimony so many times to members and non-members alike. What a fool I had been. So gullible and trusting.

And people wonder why I have become cynical and questioning. So glad my DD has convinced her husband to not do the Santa myth with their daughter. (DD found out at age four that it was a myth - I never lied to her but I allowed others to tell her about the myth and she believed them. She was four when she asked me and I told her the truth. She thanked me again today for not lying to her about the Santa myth and about churchco.

De Ja Vue--I felt the same way about Santa and TSCC! I was a bit younger (8 or so) when I realized that Santa wasn't real, but the embarrassment was the same. My TBM mother was really into keeping kids "kids" as long as possible, so I frequently felt naive and younger than my peers. I don't want the same for my daughter.

We did the Santa deal with our kids and my son did it with his 3 kids...and his youngest (4) is still in awe. My daughter who is 40 and intellectually challenged and operates at about a 4-5 year old level still loves Santa. I see no harm in it.

RB

Lethbridge Reprobate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We did the Santa deal with our kids and my son did
> it with his 3 kids...and his youngest (4) is still
> in awe. My daughter who is 40 and intellectually
> challenged and operates at about a 4-5 year old
> level still loves Santa. I see no harm in it.
>
> RB


I did Santa when I was little and have fond memories of it. My kids are 1 and 2, so not quite old enough to totally get into it, but we'll do it with them. The 2-year-old will remember the tree and gifts when Christmas time rolls around next year. I don't see the harm either. I won't make fools of my kids as some of my relatives have of their kids by going to ridiculous lengths and expecting others to as well to perpetuate the belief when the kid is 9 years old.

I totally love Santa Claus.

I guess that I never realized that there are people who completely believed that Santa was real. I was raised on Santa stories and all, but it was always understood that it was a happy fairy tale. Just like all of the Disney fairy tales and books with talking animals wearing clothes and living in dens with beds, cookstoves, and clocks.

It's perfectly possible to have nice little traditional tales that we tell, without going overboard. To me, Santa Claus was a symbol of the giving spirit. Christmas was (still is) a time for celebrating light when it's dark, and warmth when it's cold.

I've been very surprised, here, to learn that some parents/families teach their children that Santa is A Real Person in such a way that those children feel that they were lied to, later in life. Wow! Turns out that my parents actually got something right when I was a child. It's always a surprise to learn that.

I remember my mom telling me at a very young age that Santa wasn't real. She was very kind about it and explained that she didn't want to lie to me because she would always tell me the truth.

Her credibility did us both good in later years when it came drugs, alcohol, etc.

Ohdeargoodness--your mother sounds like the type of mother I want to be =) Good for her!

If I ever have kids, I'll not do Santa with them.

+1

Neurosis can be inherited, I don't want to add to that, and childhood is already inherently magical.

I'm dyslexic.
I do satan.

I have always loved the Santa myth. But I can never remember my parents saying Santa was real, and I never told my kids he was real.As my kids got older, Santa starting bringing the socks, underwear and toothbrushes. By the time they seriously doubted, it was no big deal and easy to let go.

let's take it a step farther then....

what else do we lie about to our kids?

Do we always tell them the truth?

runrunrun--I am far from perfect, so I can't say that I will never lie to my kid, but I am against it for the most part. No Santa, no Tooth Fairy, no Easter Bunny. I believe in making difficult topics age-appropriate, but not lying. Straight questions deserve straight answers.

thanks - the comments were actually meant for audience at large.... I see it as a big elephant in the middle of the room that nobody wants to acknowledge....

The real question I think is "What is a lie?". I'll leave that for the board to decide/comment on....

i think the reality for all of us is that we all lie - it just that each of us needs to find an acceptable level in which we are comfortable in our justification of it when we do.

For me the harm (lie) of mormonism far outweighs any "lies" of childhood. For others, this harm also includes the "lies" of childhood.

I only give one piece of advise to (new) parents - you will be given lots of advice - but only you know your kids and what is best for them. And that is the way it should be.

Thanks!

runrunrun Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> thanks - the comments were actually meant for
> audience at large.... I see it as a big elephant
> in the middle of the room that nobody wants to
> acknowledge....
>
> The real question I think is "What is a lie?".
> I'll leave that for the board to decide/comment
> on....
>
> i think the reality for all of us is that we all
> lie - it just that each of us needs to find an
> acceptable level in which we are comfortable in
> our justification of it when we do.
>
> For me the harm (lie) of mormonism far outweighs
> any "lies" of childhood. For others, this harm
> also includes the "lies" of childhood.
>
> I only give one piece of advise to (new) parents -
> you will be given lots of advice - but only you
> know your kids and what is best for them. And
> that is the way it should be.
>
> Thanks!

Your post is profound and wise..

So years ago I was substituting in Valiant 11 class. I made a comment about Santa as it was the holiday season. I dont even remember exactly what it was only that I said he was make believe. The next day I get a call from the Bishop's wife. She was furious because I had ruined Christmas for her 11 year old son. He supposedly didn't know Santa was pretend and I spoiled it. I told her that I felt lying to a class of young men on the verge of becoming priesthood holders was way worse than spoiling the Santa myth.

Unknown Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So years ago I was substituting in Valiant 11
> class. I made a comment about Santa as it was the
> holiday season. I dont even remember exactly what
> it was only that I said he was make believe. The
> next day I get a call from the Bishop's wife. She
> was furious because I had ruined Christmas for her
> 11 year old son. He supposedly didn't know Santa
> was pretend and I spoiled it. I told her that I
> felt lying to a class of young men on the verge of
> becoming priesthood holders was way worse than
> spoiling the Santa myth.

This is the sort of thing that goes on in my extended family (cousins and their kids) and it concerns me. I would have a problem with a teacher of preschool-age children, whether at church or in an actual preschool, boldly proclaiming to three- and four-year-olds that Santa is a big fat lie, but when you work with or teach older kids in any capacity, sometimes it just comes up in conversation. You answer a question or address a topic naturally and it just comes out. After the fact you think maybe it would have been better to leave it alone, but what's said is said. And who would think an eleven-year-old kid with normal intelligence would actually continue to literally believe in something that's really a bit ridiculous (but so is Mormonism, I suppose)?

My wife taught two years of kindergarten and one year of sixth grade in happy valley when we were getting through law school (her) and med school (me). In kindergarten, she thought the majority of students believed but a few didn't, and she tried not to discuss it because she didn't want the non-believers ruining anything for the believers at such a young age.

When she taught sixth grade, a kid in her class asked her at what age she stopped believing in Santa. Without giving it any or much thought, she answered him honestly that it was just before she turned six that one of her older brothers felt the need to clue her in on Santa, the Tooth Fairy, and the Easter Bunny. In that kooky region, God knows how many kid might have still not figured out the Santa thing, but one mother called the principal and had a hissy fit over the phone about my wife spoiling Christmas for their kid who would turn twelve shortly after Christmas. Fortunately she had a sane principal, who, if he is to be believed, told the woman she was a fool.

I think it's much easier to perpetuate myths past the level for which it is developmentally appropriate in a land where children are taught not to question anything said by parents or church leaders. Not all of Mormons are into Santa, but those who are extremists about it could probably have their kids believing in Santa until they grew up and discovered that the presents for their own kids didn't just magically appear.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2016 11:42AM by scmd.

I never pushed the issue, if my kids believed then they did if not then fine. My middle son though really did believe and I never had the heart to tell him until I saw kids his age (11) giving each other funny looks whenever he mentioned Santa. I told him then and he lived.

I can understand not telling them, but I don't think it matters if they believe. Sometimes it might be nice to believe in a little fantasy for awhile. Reality lasts long enough.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2016 10:03AM by Whiskeytango.

Whiskeytango--I think imagination is an extremely important part of childhood. I want my daughter to pretend and to create and to imagine (because you're right, reality can be ugly and it lasts a LONG time!)

I am fine with other people telling their kids that Santa is real. Some of my friends really worry that their 4 or 5 year old kid won't believe in Santa anymore. I don't want my kid to be the one who spoils their fun, just like when she's older I don't want her to cause conflicts with her friends' parents when she tells them that Jesus is just a story too.

I am glad that I don't have kids yet because I don't know how I would explain it to my kids.

I was kind of native growing up so I didn't figure out that Santa wasn't real until I was 12 and it was by snooping through my mom's Christmas present hide away. She had to change it each year because my brothers, biological mother and I were all good at snooping through out the years.

Oh, now that I am older, I track Santa on the NORAD website. I find that really fun to do for some extremely odd reason.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2016 08:02PM by kativicky.

We did "Santa." The kids would get gifts that appeared on
Christmas morning from "Santa." But it was clearly understood
by all that Mom and Dad had supplied the gifts and that "Santa"
was an entertaining fiction. There was never any of the "you
better be good because Santa's watching . . . " or explaining
how Santa can be at one department store while he's
simultaneously at another etc. None of the finding out Santa's
not real and the gray area of not trusting your parents etc.
Santa, like Harry Potter, was fictional.

It was similar with the Easter Bunny. I was the Easter Bunny.
My wife would pin a large cotton ball on my back belt loop to
be my bunny-tail, and I'd go hide the eggs while the kids
waited in the house. Then they'd come out and hunt for the
eggs (eggs which they had boiled and dyed the night before).

I was also the tooth fairy. I would have the kids put the
tooth in a sealed envelop that they would then decorate and put
the envelope under their pillow. In the morning the sealed
envelope would be there, still sealed, but with money inside
rather than the tooth. They knew it was me, but they were
flummoxed as to how I could get the tooth out and put the money
in. One daughter later told me of the "aha" moment she had
when she later learned of the concept of steaming open a sealed
envelope.

I grew up in a family with all kinds of secrets and the lies
that were told to hide those secrets--where we would all
pretend to not know what we knew. When I first became a father
I vowed never to lie to any of my kids about anything. I never
have. It's been good.

I have always loved Santa and we do it with our boys. There is something magical about Santa. My oldest knows now so it is fun having someone to bounce ideas off of now and he gets to be part of the fun while still getting a surprise on
Christmas morning.

I wanted to be a source of truth for my children, so we read santa stories and I told them it was just for fun. Ironically for me now, I come to find out that I taught them many myths and lies. I believed everything the church taught, and taught the kids all of it. Makes me sad, I wasn't a source of truth.