Facebook often has posts asking for people to pray for a variety of things usually concerning personal health issues, or the loss of a family member, or for a cause, etc.

Are people really praying? And what does that mean?

I've often wondered what praying to a deity is all about.
The older I become, the more I ask: WHY?

Is there any scientific proof that pray can result in positive results? What if someone is praying for something horrible to happen?

What are your personal experiences and thoughts on the subject of prayer?

When I pray, I follow the pattern of prayer taught by Jesus. I began with thanking God for God's gift of creation and my life. I pray for the whole world, including my enemies that would do me harm, in the hope that we would become the children of God loving and supporting each other in our times of need. I then pray for my nation's leaders that they may have wisdom and compassion as they govern. I pray for my community, friends, and family--naming those by name who have asked for my prayers. I close by thanking God, again, for the gift of life, for my part in God's creation, and for my health including the remission of cancer. I close with the "Our Father" and the Apostles' Creed.

Does this do any good? Faith, spirituality, and religion are very personal things. For me as a person, I am more relaxed and less stressed about our goofy world, when I pray.

My atheist friends here will say that my faith is irrational, illogical, and without a shred of evidence that praying does any good--and they'd be absolutely correct from their viewpoints.

So, as goofy as this is going to sound, I thank God for RfM and my friends here. Because RfM is a personal experience and what one thinks and experiences on RfM will be just as personal as one feels about prayer. Some will view a RfM and conclude we're a bunch of angry wankers, others will find themselves and their recovery here.

I should also add that when Jesus taught about prayer, he said to pray in secret. This, to me, means not to pray publicly, or to force prayers upon people. Prayer should in the form of individual prayer done privately, or in communal faith and worship communities--never in civic structures.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2016 02:33PM by BYU Boner.

How much can you sell your prayers for? Doesn't that determine if they have any value?

Yes, there is scientific proof that prayer works. As much as I hate to admit that the Mormons aren't completely nuts.

Babyloncansuckit Wrote:
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> Yes, there is scientific proof that prayer works.
> As much as I hate to admit that the Mormons aren't
> completely nuts.

Depends on what you mean by "works."

There is no evidence that intercessory prayer "works" for the person being prayed for. In fact, in the best objective study done, people who were prayed for did *worse* than those not prayed for:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/12082681/ns/health-heart_health/t/power-prayer-flunks-unusual-test/#.WEHSc-YrKUk

Some other studies have sometimes shown a small effect, but they're generally problematic because of too small a sample size, methodology problems, and because the effects only show up on subjectively analyzed variables, not objective ones (in other words, people say they "feel better," but don't show any objectively measurable changes in health metrics).

There *is* evidence that praying "works" to calm the individuals who do the praying, and can (though doesn't always) provide some similar benefits as meditation, though that can be attributed to the placebo effect...

brb ~ praying for OPie ~

ziller Wrote:
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> brb ~ praying for OPie ~


It had better be a good one! :-) I have a good imagination!

Prayer brings me peace, and calms my anxiety, so yes, it works.
Sort of like meditation, which prayer is a form of, it can lower BP, etc.

Meditation has been scientifically proven to be good for one's health.

People have to get beyond the conception that prayer is "only" about asking for things. It's so much bigger than that. So much bigger.

angela Wrote:
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> Meditation has been scientifically proven to be
> good for one's health.

That's a bit too broad to be accurate.

It's been shown that for some people in some instances, it *can* be "good for one's health." The "good" effects are very often not replicable, don't work for everyone, and are often quite subjective.

I use it like meditation, as well. It is calming and helps with anxiety. Having just finished months of treatment for a very serious recurrence of cancer, I find I need comfort and solace as I deal with the intense fear and depression that comes with my situation -- a high risk of a recurrence that will be fatal.

With meditation, prayer, Reiki, guided visualizations and cognitive behavioral therapy, I have not had to resort to the antidepressant that my oncologist prescribed and which sits on my kitchen counter. I look at it every morning but I haven't taken it. Were it not for my many other coping mechanisms, including prayer, visualizations and gratitude, I would be on it for sure.

I also don't mind that many friends, relatives and acquaintances have told me that they have put my name on various prayer rolls. I have people praying for me in Europe, Latin America and all parts of the U.S. A work colleague brought me a rosary from South America. Plenty of friends and colleagues have given me Catholic mass cards. I'm on the prayer rolls of a couple of Jewish temples. My name is well known at a black Baptist church. A dear friend's aunt called me the night before surgery and gave me a gospel singing blessing I'll never forget. Another friend in Switzerland prays for me at a weekly "New Age" meeting. And, I just ran into a neighbor who told me she had put my name on the prayer rolls of over 20 LDS temples.

I've resigned from TSCC and don't know that I'm much of anything in particular anymore as regards religion. Perhaps a Christian? Not sure.

In any event, I don't mind people's prayers in the least. I figure prayers "can't hurt, might help".

I suspect you'd be just as comforted (and maybe more?) if all those caring people simply told you how much they love and care for you...at least I hope so :)

At any rate, my very best wishes (but no prayers!) for no recurrence and full remission/recovery! Hang in there!

Best of healthy to you, Annony, for the up coming year. Glad meditation is helpful and relaxing for you.

Prayer: 50% of the time, it works every time!

Yup. And, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

steve benson Wrote:
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> http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1911528


WOW... You have excellent recovery skills of old threads -- oh wait, or is this your post from some time before?
I admit, I skimmed the article (small book!) and agree with (I think) most of your conclusions. But don't quote me! :-)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2016 09:55PM by SusieQ#1.

Maybe the Mormon style of prayer is all wrong, because it's focused on a 19th century prosperity gospel. Pray for what you want, pray for understanding, etc. Praying is just meditation with a more elaborate icon you use to talk to yourself.

Does self-talk have value? Of course. Helps get your head straight, for starters. And it might get through to your higher self, which is in collusion with all the other higher selves around us, so sometimes cool synchronicities happen.

Mormonic prayer aside, what is prayer? A word? A feeling? Life? Perhaps existence is the benediction. Every possibility that completes its long march toward bursting into Earthly reality is certainly a miracle. You don't need to ask for a miracle. You are the miracle. You are the prayer. Maybe what we need to do is remember. Things just are, and whatever is is beautiful. Even something as shitty as Mormonism.

I like the meme going around of the guy who says he named his two lay about lazy cats Thoughts and Prayers because they are useless.

Prayer has worked for me throughout my life. It has provided me insights I may not have otherwise had, and I've witnessed some divine intercession in my life several times over, that's made a believer out of me.

It doesn't *fix* everything. The human condition we're subject to doesn't allow this. We're born. We live, suffer, and will die. No one gets out of this alive.

Prayer is my heart's yearning put into words to a source beyond my comprehension. I don't pretend to have all the answers, or even some of them. Prayer has helped me to navigate my life, for better or worse.

... but it's simply awareness that generates from within you and doesn't ascend beyond your home's ceiling--as much as you may want to believe there's actually a Super Sugar Daddy Deity up in the air somewhere with whom you're supposedly having an intimate conversation about your wants and needs.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2016 07:11PM by steve benson.

I use prayer a little but meditation a lot.

However, based on previous threads and posts when I say 'meditation' it certainly isn't just clearing one's mind ---- its a whole lot more and the more is what makes it effective. The same could probably be said of 'prayer'.

As far a percentage ------ I have found very few things that are 100% effective! I would accept an effective rate as low as 1% in some cases to still make it totally worth it.

spiritist Wrote:
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> As far a percentage ------ I have found very few
> things that are 100% effective!

Come spend some time with me someday. I can show you tens of thousands of 100% effective things. They always work, every single time. We get them from science :)

> I would accept an
> effective rate as low as 1% in some cases to still
> make it totally worth it.

Wow, that's a little sad, since "random chance" would give you a higher rate than that for most things. Oh, well.

Haven't figured that out yet. Never had one answered back in my praying days.

RB

Even though God's mind is already made up, you pray to learn humility. Humble people are easier to scam.

Mr. Deity and the Messages is a funny take on prayer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaZDcS-rMf4

Posted above.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2016 08:57PM by spiritist.

spiritist Wrote:
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> Posted above.


You might find this interesting. It's an old thread. Seems I've asked the same question before!

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1911528

Steve has it posted now.

His thread currently has only 2 hits.

It is interesting that a thread on RFM on the 'Value' got over 35 currently and one on science debunking the 'value' has only 2.

I have my opinions of why the difference.

BYU Atheist Wrote:
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> n/t


ME? Oh.. that's easy. It's an answer to prayer! :-) (that's a joke/sarcasm, in case you missed it.)

SusieQ#1 Wrote:
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> BYU Atheist Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > n/t
>
>
> ME? Oh.. that's easy. It's an answer to prayer!
> :-) (that's a joke/sarcasm, in case you missed
> it.)

I just realized sometime later that I completely missed your point.
Yes, the article by Steve is good if you have time to spend reading it!

I think that prayer can bring comfort and solace to believers. I was once a frightened young girl, with a dying father, praying for "everything to be all right." Night after night I prayed. There was nothing else in the physical world that I could do. Well, my father did die, but my older brother swooped in to take care of me. After a whole lot of turbulence, everything did turn out all right. I don't know if the prayers affected the outcome, but they sure helped me.

Maybe prayers are a plea to the universe for kindness. When you promote kindness in your mind you are more likely to generate kind reactions from your environment. I see this daily in my interactions with troubled youth. My own state of mind, with resulting responses, can affect them profoundly. How they respond starts with me. So it's important, in as far as I am able, to be peaceful, calm, kind, and accepting.

I talk my wife into doing most of the praying. She speaks almost no English, so she prays in Spanish. I've found listening to her prayers to be extremely helpful learning Spanish (which I suck at), especially verb conjugations and the proper use of pronouns.

Sometimes I zone out during her or another person's prayers and review my list of important tasks for the day. I've found this is also a good thing to do during testimonies. But since I no longer attend SM I just keep my to-do list next to the bed and add to it during timeouts or at halftime.

When I do pray I thank "God" for my cancer, my poverty, my bad hip etc. These are the things that make my life real. By "God" I mean "truth." I thank the truthfulness of being for those things that are major pains in the ass (or hip) because they whack me upside the head, which I need.

Once every couple weeks or so my wife and I will each have an orgasm at the same time. This happenstance puts any and all prayers to shame, IMO. If I ever start a church I'll encourage the members to have orgasms with each other, in lieu of praying. They'll get more bang for the buck that way.

I would think that if you thought you were speaking to an
all-knowing individual you'd have to be scrupulously honest with
yourself as you formed your words. Having to be scrupulously
honest with yourself can be a good thing whether there actually
is a god or not.

"It made me shiver. And I about made up my mind to pray; and
see if I couldn't try to quit being the kind of a boy I was,
and be better. So I kneeled down. But the words wouldn't come.
Why wouldn't they? It warn't no use to try and hide it from
Him. Nor from me, neither. I knowed very well why they wouldn't
come. It was because my heart warn't right; it was because I
warn't square; it was because I was playing double. I was
letting on to give up sin, but away inside of me I was holding
on to the biggest one of all. I was trying to make my mouth say
I would do the right thing and the clean thing, and go and
write to that n*****'s owner and tell where he was; but deep
down in me I knowed it was a lie-and He knowed it. You can't
pray a lie- I found that out."
--Huckleberry Finn (angsting over the fact that he's "sinning"
by helping a runaway slave)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2016 11:29AM by Amyjo.

Once a man was asked, “what did you gain by regularly praying to God?” The man replied, “Nothing…but let me tell you what I lost: anger, ego, greed, depression, insecurity, and fear of death.” Sometimes the answer to our prayers is not gaining but losing; which ultimately is the gain. –Anonymous

Praying works in reducing my blood pressure which can be tested before and after praying. Actually, other things work also if they relax me.

Prayer serves only the giver. I've defined prayer as a 'copout' for what others don't want to do, or be responsible for; by acting on the issue in need themselves. Prayer is like a blanket. If they say a few words and cast an amen at the end of it, they feel like they've done their part. I consider this rubbish words that lead to nothing.

What about prayers given for ones own self? It's the same thing. Because you're told someone is listening, you offer words that in actuality go nowhere. You might as well nod your head to a wall and chant to it. It does no good, but make one feel like they've actually done something constructive on their own behalf.

The next time you feel the need to pray, let me suggest that you take a logical and proactive approach to your situation. Spend the time you would be praying on actual deeds of making the problem better. Don't ask for things you can solve yourself.
For example, if you need more money - get a second job. Don't ask thin air for what you need to do.

I grew up in the LDS faith and left it years ago. But not soon enough as even to this day, I'm plagued with the left overs of what that poison has done to me. I'm a militant atheist today.

It seems that some find prayer a kind of coping mechanism that gives some folks some comfort.

Some find it totally useless and see it as talking to yourself. Which, when I think about it, may be a way of finding some peace on a personal level.

"I'll pray for you" has come to be a kind of indication of care and concern. That's fine with me. I don't mind.

What I do find objectionable is being told that I need to pray more about some issue, or that I have not been "worthy" to receive an answer for a prayer, and other such criticisms.

My personal experience in recent years has been an experiment in non use of prayer in any form. Talking things out, researching, gathering more information, talking to other people, listening to music, driving, listening to my own well developed intuition, (gut feeling), and other activities give me the help and direction I find most useful and effective.

I am not convinced that a bunch of people saying: "I'll pray for you." is going to change anything or fix anything in my life. It's a nice way to say: I care about your concerns, but really I don't find it necessary to pray for anyone, nor that other people's prayers do anything for my benefit. Besides, I have no idea what they are saying in those prayers! :-)

Also, I am not convinced that: "pray for rain to put out the forest fires" is effective. It just seems to me that nature and fire fighters will take care of the fires.

My conclusion is that prayer has some value for some people, to absolutely no value for others.

"My conclusion is that prayer has some value for some people, to absolutely no value for others."

That's how I see it too. In my case prayer had convinced me over a period of many years that the Book of Mormon was real and in the end I found out that I was only deceiving myself.