Do any of you feel like mormonism stunted your growth as a person?

Having been abused and neglected as a child, I know for sure I had a lot of roadblocks to learning in school. I went to school to escape home. I would hide in the language lab and sleep there. I wrote all of my own notes to get out of class etc, because I couldn't even get my mother to write a note for me. I did the very least I could to get by.

We had to regularly visit with our school counselors. I remember one exchange with mine, where she asked if I wanted to go to college. I said yes, and that was the end of the conversation. It was never brought up again. I had no idea how to go about applying for colleges, and no idea how to apply for grants and scholarships. I had no guidance.

I guess I appeared on the outside as lazy. But I really wasn't. I always had a job, from the time I was 15. Every challenge that came my way, I got through it, not with stellar reviews, but I got by.

My mom brought up college for me only once. She said, "There's no money for you to go to school, so you better figure out what you're going to do." That's all that was ever said to me about college.

Of course, though, as a mormon, my mom was ALWAYS pressuring me to get married and have kids. I almost think there was more pressure at home than there was at church sometimes.

Meanwhile, my dad called me degrading names and told me I was good for nothing.

So, a mix of mormonism and my lousy parents gave me extremely low self esteem, and pointed me in one narrow direction. It took me years to get over all of this, and make a home and career for myself. But I can't help but sometimes mourn what I could have been. I'm pretty smart, and always got good grades without trying much. I had a great singing voice, and was in all the musical groups at school and church. Had I applied myself, what could I have been?

I'm not the thinker that a lot of people here on the board are. I guess my years of black and white thinking made me into a realist. I don't have art hanging on my walls, I have photographs. I have no need or want for anything abstract. I have no excitement over "What if?" I have no plans for retirement, only am saving money because I have been told it's a good thing. I feel like I have no creativity. My life consists of working and going home, and I really don't want to do anything else.

Do any of you feel this way? Do you feel like you could have been so much more? Do you feel like, because of the oppression of mormonism, that you were held back from really succeeding at your life? What are your thoughts?

(disclaimer for trolls: This may look to you as though I'm unhappy. On the contrary, I am very happy, living a guilt free life outside the church. I have a great husband and great kids, a home, a fun job that's easy and I like, and I make pretty good money. I have had wonderful experiences that I would NEVER have had in the church, married to a priesthood holder and popping out kids. I love my life but I can't help wondering sometimes, what could have been if I had NEVER been a mormon?)

applesauce

I'm not very keen on the "What if...?" questions...

I just want to tell you that I like who your writing says you are.

applesauce Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My mom brought up college for me only once. She
> said, "There's no money for you to go to school,
> so you better figure out what you're going to do."
> That's all that was ever said to me about
> college.

I totally relate to that.

I was never pushed to excel in school by my TBM mother, though I tried to...because I loved learning.

My TBM brother, upon graduation, wanted to go to BYU, so parents paid for it. When I graduated two years later, I got nearly that exact same sentence you wrote above. There was enough money to pay from brother at BYU, but nothing for me (it might have had something to do with me wanting to go to, and having been accepted by, MIT instead of BYU...).

So, yeah. "Stunted" is a reasonable term. I wound up doing 1 semester of community college, then going off on a mission. When I got back, I ditched mormonism and didn't count on family for anything, and that break got me to realize that my life was up to me...so I went to an actual university, worked full-time while going to school to pay for everything, and managed to get a BS and MS degree without a dime from parents. But only because I ditched what was "stunting" me.

I wonder that too applesauce.

Was the only girl in a family of boys, with both parents working. Us kids by and large mostly raised ourselves, with little direct supervision. We had lots of rules, and my mom was gestapo strict with her parenting style. She didn't know how to give or receive love though. My dad was the nurturer in my family.

Being successful in life all revolved around how faithful we were as LDS. If we weren't successful enough, then it was because we weren't doing enough in the gospel to make things work for our good. So in that sense I was stigmatized at an early age including when received my patriarchal blessing at age 12 that told me only if I obeyed could I expect the full blessings of heaven.

We weren't encouraged to go to college in my family. Nor were we discouraged. There was no money for us to go on, like you. My siblings and I when we did go had to forge our own way. So we did.

Leaving the cult mid-30's and again in my 40's was based on my resolve that the church was not true. Growing up with the mindset that it was did impair my goal setting in the sense that I prioritized marriage and having children as my primary purpose in life, and everything else came second.

In that sense it stunted my growth career wise. Still I have no regrets over raising my children and putting them first as my priority. If I had to do it all again I hope that I still would.

Like you I was a singer. My high school teachers (music and arts especially,) believed I was destined to become a professional singer, as did some of my classmates. But then life had other plans, and I ended up going to college instead and having a lackluster career while juggling Mormonism, children, and divorce.

Do I have regrets? Sure I do. But I try not to dwell on them, because I don't want to give life to them. At the stage I'm at now I'm looking forward to someday retiring and being able to support myself in my old age since my career provided for me where a man did not.

My mother was crippled in her thinking, and let two bad marriages dictate her happiness - which was naught. That was based on her cultural upbringing and stereotypical belief system when her heart's desire was to be an actress. So she became a frustrated actress instead, and took it out on her family and children. I still love and miss her, but see myself through her eyes in the little progress I made to get past that baggage she had to carry.

I do occasionally think how great a person I would be if the church hadn't constantly kept me crippled. Mormonism forced me to use an external locus, when the internal locus is what governs my reality. I finally realized I can become that person now. Everyday I am more the person I want to be and not the person that the church prescribed me to be.

Just stepping outside of mormonism has given you the opportunity to be what you see yourself to be. You only need your own permission now. It is a huge leap, but you walked away from a cult. Not many people can say they did that. That already makes you an incredible human being.

Oh yeah, I can relate. Except mine was mostly from childhood neglect. I converted when I was 15/16, and to be honest, Mormonism saved me. For a while. Then it dragged me under. lol

by my father because I got the best grades in the family without much effort. We all knew that if we wanted to go to college, it was our job to make it happen. My parents did pay for 1 quarter for me as they had had a good year on the farm. My dad was a school teacher, so education was a big deal. He worked full time swing shift and went to school during the day. My parents had 3 children at the time.

My brother joined the army and was first in his class in Russian and worked in East Berlin before the wall came down. He later lost his speech when he had a brain hemorrhage at age 42 while he was in his last year of college majoring in Russian and minoring in German with straight As.

My sister did get a degree and teaches school, as does her daughter.

Me, who had the best grades, I went to work as a secretary, which is what I wanted to do. I loved it. I worked for chemists and scientists at Thiokol who developed the propellant boosters for the space shuttle. I am now a medical transcriptionist for over 30 years, which gave me a chance to work at home while being a single mother.

My little sister works with social workers and has for years. She is excellent at her job.

My youngest brother got his GED and earns around $200,000.

We didn't have the best of childhoods. Our dad was authoritarian, but softened over the years. We worked HARD on our farm. The boys worked harder than the girls did, but we learned to work hard and take care of ourselves.

My best friend from elementary, who I competed with in class, became a marine biologist and committed suicide 3 years ago. She left mormonism at a very young age. Her parents weren't active.

Yes, I wonder what I could have been. I don't see that mormonism shaped who I am. I was born as who I am. Mormonism caused me to make some questionable choices, but, in the end, my life has turned out good despite the lds church.

I would have hated college. I'm glad I got a chance to be a mom and to twins no less, something I never even thought about as a child. I wanted to be a mom and a wife. It wasn't quite what I anticipated, but the most important thing in my life is my children. They are all I live for.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2016 12:18PM by cl2.

I lost the most important person to me (at the time) when I joined an evangelical church. Now that I don't even believe anymore, I regret it, and I regret the career decisions I made. But there is no going back, only forward. I'm glad you made a life you are happy with.

It's the opposite for me.

I worry about who I would be if I hadn't grown up the way I did. If I'd just been in some boring mainstream religion that allowed me to go with the flow I'd likely never have developed the critical thinking skills, skepticism, disdain for unnecessary authority figures, etc. that made me who I am.

I don't feel like it stunted me at all.

Yay! A fellow career criminal!

Most certainly.
My mother was from Weiser and has a back woods mentality. She is the ultimate doormat. She had twice as many kids as she wanted and was always depressed and angry. She had no emotional support whatsoever.

My father was an Orphan who went to live with relatives in Weiser. He knew nothing about being a father or having a family. He was always either at church or at work. I think mormonism stroked his ego and made him feel like he was important. He's an angry person also who would rage at every little thing and take it out on his kids. Lots of beatings from both angry parents.

My parents were forced to move to a major city in order to be able to get work. That's the best thing that could have ever happened for their kids. It at least exposed us to places, people, and ideas we'd have never known about other wise.

My parents did everything they could to sabotage anything to do with me going to college. I left home at 17 and got married at 18. That was a disaster that I quickly put an end to. My mother made sure to tell me that I was the only person who'd ever gotten divorced in her family. Wow was that a BIG lie. Her father had 9 brothers. Out of all of them, my grandfather was the only one who hadn't been divorced. I think my grandmother should have divorced him though. He literally was so cruel to her that he broke her mind and she was in and out of mental institutions from age 30 until she died at 80. He was a mean sob.

Being raised and surrounded by all of these broken people while also being strict mormon did me no favors. They made my life hell. I finally cut them out of my life. When I was 40 I went to college. I was on the Deans list every semester. It made me sad to think about what could have been. Just one mentor could have made a huge difference.

I have a nice life now, and i'm pretty happy. but still, I sometimes wonder.....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2016 04:59PM by madalice.

The OP has so many parallels to my life - could almost be me.

Was I stunted ? absolutely by any normal measure, Yes.

Then again, I survived. There is a lot to say about survival.

I was born to a 16 year old mother, 18 year old father in SLC in the early 60's - anyone here want to guess how bad that one was for them - and for me ? For their parents ? Either one of my parents would have been glad if I should have 'accidentally' died. My father's oldest sister had to stop by every day to make sure I didn't accidentally die.

Being young, only knowing what you experience - you don't know what life should be like - you survive, most days, that's all and that has got to be your small victory.

Well, I made it this far, put myself through college, BS Computer Science, Electrical Engineering and a MBA. Today, my sisters and mother will say it was because of how my parents treated me that made me succeed. In their minds if they were nice, decent parents, I wouldn't have rebelled by succeeding.

Can't even win by succeeding with them. If I failed, wound up in jail on drugs - it would be my fault. Instead, wind up with multiple college degrees, fantastic family, married over 30 years to a non member - and they get all the credit.

Stunted - yep. But my life is my own, if changing anything meant I would wind up somewhere differently I wouldn't change a thing.

I was such a contrarian that it didn't get to me much. The guilt associated with masturbation took decades to subside. Never stopped me from enjoying myself immensely but it was there none the less.

RB

Sounds to me like you made it in adult life in spite of your parents and their terrible church.

I did well, too, in spite of some of the same poor parenting and mormon influence. My parents said I'd be wasting my time in college and I just showed up there, registered, went to class and worked hard in school and at whatever jobs I could hold down for four years, graduated and worked hard at my profession, living quite happily ever after.

A lot of my friends (women) dwell on this way--too much. There's a lot of "drunk-dialing" of old boyfriends and old girlfriends, around New Year's Eve, and hasty, frantic hook-ups at summer class reunions.

This is also a favorite theme for stories, such as, "A Christmas Carol." You've got to see "Family Man" with Nicolas Cage, and "Sliding Doors" with Gwyneth Paltro.

I will always, always wonder what life would have been like, had I married either of my Great Loves. These wonderful men are still in my life (not romantically), and I can see what a great, exciting, fun, well-traveled, wealthy life they are living.

I'm very happy right now, and whatever happened to put me where I am, I wouldn't change.

I would change being beaten by my violent ex-husband. It was a temple marriage, and I stayed in too long. I have injuries that will never heal right, and that I still have to deal with, and side effects like ringing in the ears, dizziness, floaters in my
eyes, bone fragments in my jaw, and PTSD. No matter how I look at things--I will never come up with any meaning, any purpose at all, to being beaten like that.

The rest of my life makes sense, mostly. I loved music, too, but knew that I wasn't willing to devote much of my life to it. I had too many interests to concentrate on just a few. I took piano performance at BYU, and was good enough to confidently teach piano lessons at BYU, and grad school. My real career has been interesting, and has offered plenty of variety and freedom. I've needed the flexibility and good income to raise my children on my own.

I probably wouldn't have had any kind of work ethic--I would have been bums like my brothers--if I had been happy at home. I was the youngest, and the middle brother bullied and tortured me from infancy on. I spent my time outdoors, or after school in the library. All that studying brought me good grades. I would babysit, until I was old enough to get a real job. I escaped to BYU the day after graduating high school, and never returned home.

When I got married the second time, I finally had a home of my own, and felt secure enough there to have babies and raise them. After my second divorce, I realized that I could have a happy, loving home on my own, without a husband (who was critical, selfish, and unkind.) I don't think I would have survived those two divorces, if I hadn't learned to fend for myself in childhood.

Oh, I would rather have been happy, like most of my non-Mormon friends, who's parents loved them for themselves, and encouraged and protected them. I was pushed into marrying Mormon men, who were cold and authoritarian, like my father. My mother was the one who exploded on me, and called me names, and cursed me.

Perhaps we learn from our parents what NOT to do. I have a feeling that some of you are great parents!

Right this moment, I'm living in the home of my dreams--peaceful, loving, cozy, full of children and laughter--and we're financially secure. My children did have a happy childhood, and they did turn out very well--so far--and that's what's most important of all, to me.

Thanks for all the responses. Sounds like many of you had the same experience as me. I'm pretty proud of the fact that I outlasted my parents, that they are finally dead, and I am totally free from them. My goal was to succeed in spite of them, and I hope they roll in their graves every time I laugh or smile or get a paycheck, or drink a beer or coffee, kiss my nevermo husband or rejoice in my children's successes. I sometimes wish that there really is a hell, and imagine my parents there. At any rate, I imagine they know now that mormonism is a bunch of crap and they wasted their lives, but I have not. I won, you a-holes! I outlasted your bullcrap and I made a happy life despite your being against me at every turn. Have a happy dirt nap, and may you NEVER rest in peace!

applesauce

Yes, I do wonder about the same things. My sister and I both had a bit of musical talent and that was not only not encouraged but not even supported. Recently, she recalled that, when she was in 8th or 9th grade, she was first chair in clarinet. The band director gave her a bass clarinet and a huge solo in the spring band concert. She told me she had to get a ride with a friend because none of our parents were interested in driving her to the concert or sitting through it to hear her solo.

I begged and begged and begged and begged and begged for gymnastics classes and dance lessons. I was refused both. I didn't even get to participate in Girl Scouts and I also missed out on swimming lessons because nobody could be bothered to drive me or arrange transportation. Nobody wanted to pay for lessons. In fact, I was basically forced to take choir instead of band because no one was willing to rent or buy an instrument or provide the money and rides to lessons. I missed cheerleading camp and try-outs because no support.

My sister went out of her way to encourage her kids to find their thing and she supported those things. My niece competed in gymnastics for 10 years. My nephew went to race car college (high-performance engine maintenance and repair or something like that). We have often wondered where we would be or how much more successful we'd both be if we'd had just a little bit of encouragement and support.

It's very difficult not to resort to that what-if thinking because the world is so very competitive. It did not take me long in the business world to realize that my parents did me a terrible disservice. The young people entering the work world around me at the same time were all so much more polished and professional. They knew how to play the politics. They were aware there WERE office politics. They had healthy long-term relationships because they had parents who could and did guide them and offer advice and who built up their self-esteem in the first place so that they didn't settle for people who treated them poorly or abuse them.

I can't blame my parents for any decision I made or any action I took after I moved out and I did manage to accomplish some cool things. But I had to finish raising myself first and it took a few years to get to the same place my peers were at years earlier. I have made my peace with being a B+ person. I will always be mediocre. I will never accomplish or achieve anything earth-shattering; I will not leave any sort of proud legacy. And I'm not really sure I'd be happier if I'd been allowed dance lessons and had performances supported. Maybe I'd have more self-confidence or better self-esteem or maybe I'd still be struggling with an eating disorder. There's no telling so there really isn't much point in getting ground down in what we didn't have.

The best thing we can do is try to do those things for ourselves as adults. That's why I started pole dancing lessons at age 40 (because gymnastics + dance = pole dancing!). It's why, when I stay in a fancy hotel, I order room service at least once. It's why I buy t-shirts and souvenirs on vacations. It's why I do things I love for my vacations. Or you can pay it forward to the next generation and give your kids all the support and encouragement you didn't get.