How old was JS when he first told the first vision story? I hAve heard that the church is refreshing the way they tell the first vision to its members. Anyways, I was hoping it was known how old JS was when he first spoke about it.

I think it was like 12 years after it he said it took place that he ever spoke of it.

From mormonthink.com.

Was this a real, physical event? Or was this a vision in the same sense that Lehi saw a vision of the tree of life, in a dream?[3] The first written version of the account by Joseph was not given until 12 years after it supposedly took place. When he first penned the account, Joseph only mentioned one person visiting him, which is no small detail to be mistaken about.[4] There are now known at least nine different accounts[5] relating the First Vision with varying degrees of changes and circumstances. If this vision was so important, why are there discrepancies?

As far as the dissemination of Joseph's vision, there is scant evidence that it was referenced in any published material in the 1830's and it was left out of the first publication of the Church's history written by Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery. It was also left out of the Book of Commandments (published in 1833, it was the precursor to the Doctrine & Covenants) and the general Church membership did not receive information about the First Vision until the 1840's and even then, the story did not hold the prominent place in Mormon thought that it does today.[6] For an event of such import, why wasn't it more widely known? And if Joseph's telling of the event was the cause of such persecution to himself, why doesn't the historical record bear this out?

I thought there were 7 versions. It's even worse than I thought.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2016 12:00AM by madalice.

Which First Vision? The "official version" was dictated in 1838
but not published until 1842.

Here is a good timeline I put together a few years back:

https://twitter.com/LDSFacsimile3/status/524916349370253312

Nice chart, but you've squeezed a lot of info into it and it did not come out very well, even on a good laser printer. Do you have another posting of it, perhaps on a url?

Sorry about that...it is really best viewed/read by zooming and panning. However, if you email me at ldstimelines@gmail.com, I will send you a PDF and the original Excel document.

The same is true for anyone else out there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2016 08:21AM by Facsimile 3.

Also, within that 12 year window of time, beginning at a point when JS was told by God that all churches were false and that he shouldn't join any of them, there's compelling evidence that he tried to join (at least) the Methodist church.

Also, whenever I see these official depictions of the first vision:

https://www.google.com/search?as_st=y&tbm=isch&hl=en&as_q=joseph+smith+first+vision&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&imgsz=&imgar=&imgc=&imgcolor=&imgtype=&cr=&as_sitesearch=&safe=images&as_filetype=&as_rights=

I'm always reminded of my sunday school lessons, and I don't see how Mormons can reconcile the above with this:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Corinthians+11%3A14&version=KJV

Anyway, whether you believe in God or not, there's no disputing that TSCC is not a church of God. It's either a bad dream JS had, or something related to the above (if there's any truth to it), or...drumroll...he made it all up.

Joe said he was persecuted for telling his vision. Curiously, none of his contemporaries could recall the local money digger telling such a tale or being persecuted for it.

Even more telling is that LDS "scholars" contradict the official version and claim that it was a deeply private experience that Joseph rarely (if ever) shared with others until the mid 1830s.

In other words, if the facts do not fit the story, just change the story to fit the facts. Too bad for them, but the real fake story was canonized.

"Even more telling is that LDS "scholars" contradict the official version and claim that it was a deeply private experience that Joseph rarely (if ever) shared with others until the mid 1830s."

That reminds me of a stupid statement from Hugh Nibley. Joseph Smith, of course, claimed that local preachers had persecuted him when he told them about his vision. Oliver Cowdery and Joseph's brother William gave accounts of those events which differed from Joseph's. Nibley's excuse for that was:

"If William Smith and Oliver Cowdery give confusing accounts of the first
vision, we must remember that the Prophet knew from the first that those men
were not to be trusted with too much information."---"Censoring the Joseph Smith Story."

So, according to Nibley's "logic," Joseph told some hostile preachers about the vision, but didn't bother to tell two of his closest and most trusted associates the correct facts about it?

Repeating some of my old comments about this:

Uhhhh, excuse me, Genius Nibley, but Cowdery was trustworthy enough to
supposedly have been led by God to find Smith and help him translate the gold
plates; trustworthy enough to be one of the "three witnesses", and to allegedly
have an angel show him the gold plates; trustworthy enough to, along with
Smith, receive the two priesthoods from angels; trustworthy enough to be named
the "second elder of the church" upon its founding; and trustworthy enough for
Smith to instruct him to keep the first history of the church.

And brother William was trustworthy enough to be called as one of the twelve
apostles, who are supposed to be "special witnesses of Jesus Christ."

But in spite of this, according to Nibley, Smith "knew from the first" neither
of them was "trustworthy" enough to be able to relate a credible account of
what they heard from Joseph with their own ears. Apparently, Nibley wishes
his readers to believe that Joseph told Oliver and William false information
about the "first vision" because they couldn't be trusted to know the "real"
version!

Spot on, Randy!

"Joe said he was persecuted for telling his vision. Curiously, none of his contemporaries could recall the local money digger telling such a tale or being persecuted for it."

But DOZENS of Joseph's 1820s friends and neighbors gave detailed accounts of his money-digging activities. You'd think that if Joseph had truly seen God and Jesus in 1820, that at least ONE of his relatives or acquaintances could recall that Joseph had told them about it sometime between 1820 and 1832.

That's a very complicated question. Do you want to know how old he was when the story we were told said he first told the story?

Or do you want to know how old he was when he first told the story that we were told was the real story?

Or do you want to know how old he was when there was ever any record of him telling any of the stories where he said he saw heavenly visitors?

Or do you want to know how old he was when he told the story that he saw God and not just angels?

Or do you want to know how old the church now claims he was when he first told the story since they have admitted there are many stories and the spin has to change?

Or.... never mind.