I've been in recovery for years. I resigned on 4th of July about 5 years ago, but had started my recovery earlier (much with the help and validation from this board).

I work in the mental health field as a therapist and am usually live a pretty happy life, overall. I am a bit of an introvert and have a small circle of people that I trust.

Over the past few months, I've noticed something about my relationship with my mother, who is TBM. Perhaps the reason why it has bothered me so much is because I've come to the point where there isn't really a reason to hope anymore.

My mother lives about 5 hours away from me. She always sends birthday cards, sends cards to the kids, etc. She always sends 2 cases of beans or whatever food storage also. I accept the food storage because I like to cook whole foods, etc. So I just put it into rotation and use it. My pantry is getting very full though. She visits every few months, but we never connect. It is very lonely when she comes. She usually goes to Costco and buys about $500 worth of groceries/junk food. Or she'll try to cook for us (and buy all the groceries). And she also buys fast food (way more than anyone can eat).

I have a small farm and try to grow all of my family's food. I have chickens and goats, make cheese and drink goat's milk. My children and partner are all on board. She never asks me what I need or whether I want all the stuff she buys. (I am overweight and diabetic, which is why I have made such drastic changes in my lifestyle, and she buys lots of junk food/candy/junk). She never talks to me about anything substantive. She doesn't even come close to understanding me or my choices or my value in the world. It's like her love is something that is done to me, not something I participate in. There is nothing mutual about our relationship. As a child, any emotion I had was met with, "you need to repent" or "you need to read scriptures" or "you need to forgive."

I always feel empty and alone, even angry when she leaves.

Does anyone else have a relationship like this? What is going on in our relationship? Am I just an ungrateful daughter? Why do I feel so alone? It's really starting to get to me. I'm thinking about cutting my ties with her because it would be less painful than playing along. There is no honesty. Any honesty about feelings are quickly swept under the rug. My gut tells me that this is because of her beliefs and the fact that I will never have her beliefs.

She is TBM. We clash on many issues. She never listens to what I say and since I'm not mormon, every thought I have is suspect, well not even suspect. Just false. Even if I have experience in the area, anyone else, even not mormon, is right and I'm wrong.

I supposedly ask far too many questions (like when does your flight arrive, what day are you coming home, will you be here for dinner, what would you like for dinner).

She'll be home again in a few days until March. I try to connect to her in other ways, try to give her things that I know she wants or likes, I send her more pkgs when she is up in Alaska working than any other person up there and her friends all think I send interesting stuff, but she seems totally oblivious.

I hope someday she sees what I have done for her as a single mother working 2 jobs. We tend to not see what our parents did for us until they are gone. I was critical of my own mother, although my mother and I had many, many long discussions during our times together. She was so far from perfect, but now that she is gone, I cherish every moment I had with her whether we connected or not.

Maybe this is all your mother has to give.

It sounds like, at this point, you might be trying too hard.

If she has zero appreciation for the things you are doing for her, stop doing them.

It doesn't make you a bad mother. Turn your energies to things and/or people who will give you something in return, even if it is only a "thank you".

Sometimes people give us things that they find valuable even though to us they seem useless, even harmful. It's a shame that your mother won't engage in a meaningful conversation with you about it. Try not to take it as a personal insult, if you can. Because it's doubtful that she's trying to be insulting and not meet your actual needs.

After she's gone, perhaps you can donate her commodities to a food bank in town. As far as the fast food and cooked meals, could the farm animals eat it?

My mother's personality withered away in the last years before she died. She had died well before that from various illnesses and a lack of proper self-care.

She wasn't able to be there for me during my formative years, or as an adult. We did gain a better appreciation for each other as I matured because I accepted her despite all her flaws as a human being.

Now that she's been gone for almost 16 years, I still miss her terribly. Wish I could bring her back, or pick up the phone and be able to hear her voice again.

She didn't know how to love or be nurturing, and yet I still loved her unconditionally (as an adult, not as a rebellious teen who grew up with all her strict rules and conformity.) I forgave her long ago for her shortcomings. For me that was a bridge to understanding her, and accepting my own shortcomings as a person.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2016 01:08PM by Amyjo.

You can't buy someone's caring, love, appreciation. The harder you try, the more resentment is created. It's like being loved conditionally but from the reverse. I have done it (still do it at times) with my own family and friends. It makes them uncomfortable most of the time. I feel uncomfortable at times when they do it to me.

I always operated from the premise, it is better to give than to receive. I had to learn to be a gracious receiver and a respectful giver. It feels good to be able to give but you don't want the person to feel indebted because of your gesture. I think many/most people wonder if there isn't an ulterior motive when the giving is too much.

Asking may help. You ask if you may help out, they ask if they can help out. We all need to find that balance between being a giver and being a taker. I try to listen to my gut. If it feels a bit off, either way, it probably is.

Don't let fear dominate. Learn to say "No Thank You", and mean it. Some times explanations may be in order but often they just end up leading to arguments. So, I generally just say, no thank you and leave it at that, repeating it as needed.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it's not because she's a TBM, although it may have some small thing to do with it. But since I don't know her or the full situation, take it with a grain of salt.

Anyway...

For many, many years I thought I was a horrible person because I didn't have the same relationship with my mother as I saw others brag about: my mother is my best friend, she's my hero, she's always been there for me, etc. And then there was this nagging feeling that I never bonded with her. I had a shitty childhood. We blamed everything on my dad who kinda deserved the blame, but it has taken me a long, long time to realize, my mother was to blame for things as well. While my father was physically and verbally abusive, my mother was covert: critical, judgmental, and created a bunch of co-dependents along the way. Yay for me. In my effort to find that one gaping wound that never seemed to heal no matter how hard I tried to fix it, I finally stumbled upon a couple of books that really spoke to me and my feelings toward my mother. Here they are:

The Emotionally Absent Mother
https://www.amazon.com/Emotionally-Absent-Mother-Self-Healing-Getting/dp/1615190287/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1477414511&sr=1-1&keywords=the+emotionally+absent+mother

Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1626251703/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=6WWS7SK748HFJ4R97DKC

You may not recognize yourself in these books, but if it might shed some light on those weird feelings you have, I hope you at least check them out of the library.

The first book finally put a name to what I had been feeling. My mother was always there physically but she was so checked out (for whatever reason) that I never really could connect with her. When I brought up my problems or asked questions or tried to get close, she pushed me away with her mood, a look, or just brushed me off completely. I'm not sure if she did this with the rest of her kids or not, but I suspect they felt it too. We are all walking wounded. The one thing that made me think it might be my mother was when one of my brothers commented that he always thought our mom was depressed. She denied it, of course, as she denied any emotion, but it was that moment I realized my hunches were right.

The second book I recommended is much better than the first, at least for me.

I've been through the wringer over the past few years as I worked through childhood issues. I'm in a much better place because of that work. If you need distance from your mother, take it, but don't write her off completely unless you feel you just can't deal with anything she dishes out. Take care of you first. Put your emotional growth first.

I love my parents. They're deeply flawed humans who put their needs above the needs of their kids. But I realize now that they were just living what they were taught. I've decided I'm much better than the version of me they saw. I gave their pain back to them and only carry my own now. It's still a struggle some days, but I know I deserve to be happy.

My mother apologized for being a bad mother. I forgave her the second she said it. We'll never have that Hallmark card relationship, but I'll give to myself what she was incapable of.

My father still justifies his behavior. I don't expect him to apologize. I don't need him to anymore.

Whoa, that was long-winded of me. Anyway, I hope you explore those books or the concept of emotional absent parents. It was a healing discovery for me and I can't help but feel I have to spread that knowledge around to someone who might need it. Good luck and take care of you first.

I had a very similar relationship with my father for a while. Then a friend sent me an email. His signature line said, "give the gift of absence to those who do not appreciate your presence."
I was cured of walking the treadmill of a dead relationship. It was exhausting and got me no where.

HH =)

we all have our 'roles' as children - our parents project these roles onto us. I was 'the clever one' so that meant I was a know-it-all who needed put in her place and belittled at every opportunity. The worst was always expected of me and I still think my mother is amazed that I was not the mother of a bastard, nor a dead addict - although there is still time, I suppose (that's the way she thinks).

My mother made no real effort to get to know my children, nor did she give much assistance when they were small, other than to watch them as babies for 3 afternoons a week for 3 weeks while I scrubbed and decorated a flat (no help with that either). She just expected them to 'love' her for no other reason than she is their granny. It is my fault that they do not shower her with attention, nothing to do with the fact that they (my parents) spend little time with them and frequently refuse visits from us.

My younger siblings get emotional and financial support from my parents and in contrast I got a set of teacups for my anniversary and a blouse that is too small for my birthday - I don't drink tea and she knows this, neither do I wear 'girlie' blouses.

I am effectively banished from the family home at the moment due to my apostasy, however, before the 'banishment' I started insisting upon my youngest sister - who has never left home - being absent when I brought my kids. This is apparently unreasonable as she has more right to be in the family home than I, due to her still living there. The fact that she takes all my mother's attention away from my children by dominating the conversation is irrelevant.

Since my divulging of the information that the church has lied to us all, my mother has been infuriated that I am not giving her the opportunity to cut me off that she wants - I am not rising to her baiting. Hence, I am banished until I am willing to not discuss the church, but listen to them talking about it since their life revolves around it like all tbms.

I didn't have to do anything to make my kids apathetic towards my mother - she did it all by herself but cannot see it, so looks for a scapegoat: me. I am almost past caring. I used to feel sorry for her but even that is disappearing now. She will never understand anyone and she will never change, so I have to be the one to change. It does not suit them so well, but I am doing a lot better.

Your relationship with your mother is not 'normal' by any sense of the word, but she is still present in your life. You could, for instance, ask if you could go shopping with her so she gets things your kids 'like'. You could 'school' her with little baby steps the way you work with patients, hopefully she will respond well. If she does not, well, you have my sympathies.

My mother loves me. She tells me so and I believe her, but it's still hard to accept how she is with me. I was outed and expelled from BYU 28 years ago. You would think that would be enough time to accept the fact that your daughter is a lesbian. Nope. With that one piece of information, she forgot everything she knew about me and assumed the BS stereotypes about gay people were true of me, and so I was therefore depraved and damned. I remember her glee when I asked her for a sewing machine for Christmas, as if this was a key to my "cure", a sign that I was a real woman after all. Never mind that I had been a crafter and cook my whole life. She doesn't want to know anything about me or my life, and certainly doesn't want to know if I've met someone who loves me. We have very surface-y conversations. She asks a lot about my cats. She will, though, take any opportunity to stick in a "teaching moment" that I'm sure she thinks is helpful like Kimball's doozer about how gay people should tie a stone to their ankle and throw themselves in the Great Salt Lake (never mind that the salt content means my lesbian backside would bob right back up again). So you'd rather I were dead? No! I said it would be better if you were dead! And she honestly doesn't see a problem with this. She's a very bright woman, but still so very dumb, as all her thinking is done for her by TSCC. I came to realize that she could only come so far. She is never going to be a PFLAG mom. It would be an uncomfortable disaster were I ever to get married and invite her, as she'd be doing some impossible supportive/disapproving dance that would ruin it for both of us. She just can't. So I don't expect it. She does seem disappointed that I can't let her further into my heart. How can I when she believes I am such an evil person? So I come as far towards her as she is capable of coming towards me, and that's still a big gulf between us. I don't mention my dad, because he is completely disengaged and would probably have nothing to do with me at all, if not for her. I've even done a sort of meditation where I say "I now accept the love that is offered to me" and I can feel her love for me when I do that. I'm grateful for it, but it's not easy to take, even the idea that she loves me in spite of this fiction she believes about me. Trust me, I'm just not that interesting.

The only thing mama wants to hear is that you are returning to LDS Inc. Everything, and I do mean everything else is at best irrelevant, at worst confirmation that you are destroying her eternal family and tarnishing her sainthood credentials.

Far too many Mormons have no idea how to have an authentic relationship with anyone outside the bubble. For that matter, more than a few have no idea how to have an authentic relationship with anyone. Their relationship is with Mormonism, period.

I think it's important to realize that there is the complete spectrum when it comes to relationships with one's mother. Even siblings can have a very different experience. It may hurt, but it's far from unusual. As my mom used to say (when she was feeling irritated with me,) "I love you but I don't always like you."

It sounds to me like your mom is trying, even if her attempts to connect with you are imperfect. She sends cards, she visits, she attempts to provide food. Many people don't have even that much.

No bonding for me. I know what you mean. Parenting, such as it was, was done to me and not for me.

Her thinking is scripted, yours is organic. So it seems she's a factory caged chicken and you're free range.

Heh. Nice.

I was estranged from my parents once I rejected the church, 20 years ago or so. When I with them, they abused and neglected me.

My dad passed away in 2007, and my mom this year. I had never spoken to them again.

I mourned the fact that I really didn't have parents. Other people I knew had great parents, and I always felt like I was missing out. When they died, I felt like I was free.

I am an excellent parent today because of my parents' influence. I just do everything the opposite of how they did it, and my kids have turned out great. applesauce

So why haven't you ever had a discussion with her about how what she is doing isn't helping, but hurting and that you'd prefer she spend the money on a savings bond for the kids or an education fund?

It sounds to me like she doesn't know you or understand you, so she just does something. If you told her that you donate the snacks to the local Title 1 school when she does that, she'd probably quit doing it.

Would you tell your client to write off someone whom they had never opened up their real selves too?

Oh, I've had lots and lots of discussions with her. She shuts down when any negative emotions (like angry, scared, hurt) or any disagreement of her worldview (like how I don't believe the church has authority over me or how I don't believe that I am going to go to hell) come into the discussion. She even admits that she has dysfunctional ways of showing love.

When I was growing up, we were very close. In fact, we were very close up until I got divorced from my TBM eternal husband. After that, everything turned superficial.

You seem like you just want to judge me without knowing all the facts (or even reading my post).

Next.

I consider myself lucky that my mother died when I was still rather young (38.)

It was the best thing that ever happened to me. Sorry to say it but it is the truth.

I think your relationship with your mother is a lot more common than you think.

Why not just go through your pantry every time she leaves and give what you don't want to the local food bank?

I'm going to share some personal insights that I have found enriched my life and my relationships once I changed some of my thinking and had a greater understanding of how people generally behave.

There is a teaching in Buddhism (paraphrased) that says something like this: The greatest unhappiness comes from emotional attachments to unfulfilled expectations. This was a whole new concept for me. Took a long time to allow that concept to gel. But, when it did, everything made a lot more sense and I am rarely upset, angry, or disappointed in anyone or anything as I know that my reaction and response is about me and whether I had an emotional attachment to an outcome.

Without even noticing it, our expectations control much of our thinking and when not met leave us questioning ourselves, and others. Wow. That was an: ah-ha moment!

A little background: my early upbringing put me in the home of my mother and her mother and her father and her brother. I did not know or even suspect, or guess that I had a biological father. He was never mentioned. I had no idea, until I went to school at age six, (no kindergarten in those days) that my family was not like most of the other ones. That experience left me knowing that I had a lot of people who loved and cared about me even though it was not the usual family arrangement.

Jumping down the years, one of the most important things I have learned in my life (over seven decades) is that there are no: fantasy parents, fantasy siblings, etc. We get what we get. I got a different kind of family which ended up, in addition, with two step fathers, all of which ended in divorce, back living with my mother's parents. I had a lot of questions that I never could figure out.

What I have learned from living much of my life with two generations of family in the home, step fathers, moving around, going to different schools, etc. etc. is that each of us do the best we know how. That included all of the adults in my life.

If and when we know better, we do better. (Paraphrased from Maya Angelou) My family did what they knew how to do. They treated me the way they thought was best. (Fortunately, that was not too goofy or crazy and not abusive. Looking back,it was a bit odd!)

Along with those concepts, I finally figured out that the only way to have any relationship with anyone friend of family (including these important relatives) that had some level of meaning (at least, for me) was to accept and love them the best I could: AS-IS!

There is no way to change anyone. Only ourselves. Family and friends are going to do what they know to do. They are going to most likely, never leave their comfort zone. I am going to hear the same old jokes over and over! I'll hear the same comments about the same things, same people, same places, same family members over and over. :-) They will continue to call me what they knew me as at that time of my life, and that can be three or more different names!

My point in all of this is that your mom, from what I can tell, is doing what she knows how to do, what she things is helpful, shows she is caring, (even if not appropriate at times), and wants a relationship. That is her way. That leaves you with a couple of choices. Love and appreciate and accept her the way she is: AS-IS, doing the best she knows how. Or you can find fault, try to move her out of her comfort zone, want something or someone she is not, all of which is going to leave you very unhappy with the relationship, in my view. It might be possible to make some suggestions about her buying jags for you. Ask her if you can make a list for her, for instance.

I know I am going to have very different kinds of relationships with everyone in my family, and that includes my own children and grand children and a couple of relatives that are left as I've outlived everyone older than I am. I'm going to try to give them my best and try to understand them, but I know, I'm going to miss it and fall short sometimes. I do know that the more I show appreciation, say thank you, and show gratitude, have a positive attitude the better it all works for everyone.

I'd like to have been 5' 7" at least, but that is never going to happen. I just barely made it to 5' 2 1/2" (on my longest leg)! Now, I'm shrinking with age! So what to do? Me? I laugh about almost everything that I can. I remember what my mother said: "Susie, you're only short on one end." :-) I often say this in grocery stores when I need someone to reach the top shelf for me!!

You have your mother, she is trying to do her best. I would love to have my mother, and her parents and brother to communicate with but they have been gone for decades.
In short: find something to appreciate. She appears to be trying her best.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2016 07:07PM by SusieQ#1.