I grew up in the Church in the 50's and 60's. As a youth I felt comfort in knowing at the time that the church was guided by apostles and prophets. There was a sense of security knowing that God guided the Church.The members were small but dedicated. We had a purpose. To build up Zion. Church was fun to go to with lots of activities.

Fast forward to today. We can tell by listening to Conference talks, etc that there is no external God Like guidance. We know that the focus of the Church is not the building of Zion but the building of the Church assets. We know after listening to conference talks for the past two years, the top brethren do not care about the members and their concerns.

If and when I go to Church it is like going to a funeral.The leadership looks burned out. The lessons and talks are missing the personal substance and personal thoughts and ideas that people shared with I grew up in the Church. The singing is so, so bad. Looking at the members they look as if they are are on drugs. Back in my youth, people old and young would talk to everyone and ask how they are and what is going on. You could talk to any member on any gospel topic and get some interesting answers. Not today. I miss those hour long informal gospel discussions on a one and one.

What is the goal today? Back then it was to build up Zion. Anyone know what the goal is today?

I really mean this. I feel sorry for today's ward and stake leaders.They are pushing a cause that is keeping the top leader's agenda in place and no one knows what that agenda is. The top leaders seem like pimps and the local leaders are their prostitutes.When was the last time the top leaders talked about the building of Zion?

When I grew up people would talk in Sacrament Meeting and begin their talks this way most of the time. "I really prayed about what I should talk about." or "After a lot of thought and prayer, this is what I feel inspired to say." Compare that to today, "The Bishop assigned me a talk from the 2016 General Conference talk of ................." And you get a rehash of someone else's ideas.

The focus of the Church on the youth is an interesting concept. Surveys???? Why not just talk to leaders who work with youth? Better still why not fast and pray about the issues. Every youth program I was involved in was "inspired." Really, so why did they fail? Why are they not working now?

The hard core membership of the Church is leaving because they do not feel needed. They do not feel valued. Oh wait, so are the youth.The Church creates a false sense of feeling needed. Do this test. Stand at the back of the Chapel after a sacrament meeting. Any ward. Watch the dynamics. There is no group think? There is no group love? There is no real one on one connections? You see people going through motions but not emotions. Watch how the leadership in the place interacts with members.Watch how youth interacts with members of all ages.

I watched a program on Ancient Aliens called "Shamans" this week. They, the people involved at conferences with Shamans had more of a group connection with people in trance, people drumming, maybe some on some weird drugs than "God's True Church" members have.

I am disappointed as I look back at the Church. So much potential and all based on a false reality. Have a great day.

Well said!~

Identified with much of what you shared. Growing up in the 60's and 70's but the general mood and personality of the church is as you described it.

People are more robotic today inside the church. They are the "holdovers," of all those who've left already. Burnt out is an apt descriptive of those who still keep on going through the motions, but the heart and soul have left the building a long time ago.

There's no question church used to be if not "true," at least enjoyable. Especially for the youth, but for the adults as well. Far more social events, and much more a feeling of community. The "control" was always present, but at least it felt like the leaders assumed that as long as everyone was engaged and happy, the "control" would take care of itself.

For some reason, they felt like they were losing control -- and so they doubled down on the rule enforcement, suppression of individuality, and removal of anything fun.

I hear of (and know) mormons who have said (and still say), "I know the problems with the history and fact claims, but I stay because of all the good things." That was more tenable in the past -- now, not so much. The "good" things are few and far between now.

I think a lot of the change may have to do with an organization that has grown over boundaries and continents. Prosperity came to the ld$ corporation beginning in the 80's they had surplus. Having extra money was a new thing. It ended up going to temples, and malls, cattle ranches, luxury condo complexes. Things that really don't help "community" or "building Zion." The church became more diverse and the white people weren't so excited about sharing with different ethnicities hence no more talk about "gathering".

But society as a whole has changed. Americans work 20% more than Europeans. Everyone is always at work, getting ready for work, driving to work, or thinking about work. Our social lives suck! And America has lost it's place as the most prosperous nation on Earth. The middle class is way more in jeopardy than the past.

Back in the 1950's there weren't good roads, people didn't commute 60 miles one way as much, they lived more of a community lifestyle. So people socialized more, married younger, TV wasn't around for most people.

I am from your era. Your contrast between the church of the fifties and sixties and the church now is very insightful.

Your suggestion to stand at the back of the chapel really caught my attention because the last time I went to church I had an experience similar.

It wasn't after the meeting, it was before. I was uncharacteristically late for meeting one Sunday while at BYU. I entered and just stood at the back of the chapel not wanting to cause a disturbance. I think BYU then was more like the Church is now. The student wards were ahead of their time when it came to blind obedience and one-upmanship.

As I stood there, every sight and sound seemed foreign, like I was seeing all for the first time through new eyes. It seemed so empty, so rote. I suddenly just couldn't be there. I surprised myself and left. I felt such a peace after I got in my car and drove aimlessly with no destination.

I'm not sure that would have happened if I had been in my old country ward from the fifties. Those were lovely people.

It is good to be the eye of the camera sometimes. From a distance . . . things are a little clearer?

If we oldsters can relate to our 50s and 60s wards being 'family', what describes the relationship members now have with their wards?

Are there still some wards that rise to the level of family?

The members of my home ward were chastised for talking too much, and being too loud, both in the chapel and in the foyer. All my life as a Mormon, I have heard messages from the pulpit, for members to be "reverent." When there was more than one ward per building, members weren't allowed to talk inside the building, because other meetings were in session. When I went to the temple, I was looking forward to sitting in the celestial room, after the session was over, and talking it over with my family members--NOT. No sitting in the celestial room. No talking anywhere in the temple, except the bathroom or cafeteria, maybe.

Honestly--it's the truth--I never made any new friends in the temple.

I think Mormonism retains more power over the members by keeping them separated--children separated from parents, men separated from women, friends separated from friends. I remember a time when we could sit with anyone we wanted--but the cult now insists that people sit with family members only. Hence, my SLC ward had the "divorcees' section" and the "widows' section" on the back rows. (The widows considered themselves superior to the divorcees, so they sat separately.)

When my children refused to go to sacrament meeting, I would go to a friend's ward, who was also divorced, and sit with her. She was the only divorced woman in her ward. I got in trouble for that, and the bishop said he would not give me a temple recommend unless I attended my own assigned ward.

The only friendships that matter are the recruiting fellowshipping relationships made with non-Mormons, to reel them into the cult. Once these new people are converted, they become ignored and isolated, because they are "converts" and not BIC.

Thank you for your insightful post, Toronto Boy. Standing in the back of a meeting, one can also feel the heaviness of despair.

Remember when we could sing "Onward Christian Soldiers!" up to tempo, and fortissimo! The music died, when the church ruled to have only Mormon-written music performed.

I know Mormons who believe all the JS garbage with their whole heart--and they can hardly bear to go sacrament meeting. Mormons think that suffering edifies them.

Interesting insight!

I think the church's correlation efforts was the beginning of the decline. I had forgotten about needing permission to attend a different ward.

In the mid 90s as as RM; I remember working two months straight without attending church. My mom was nagging about missing so much church. So I was able to get off 1 hour earlier from work to catch a 3pm SM at the stake center. I changed into my church clothes on my last break and made the Mormon dash to get inside for sacrament. All eyes were upon me and the local BP circled the wagons before I could leave. He wanted to know who I was and why I had insisted attending "his ward." He went on to say that I would need a letter from my BP stating whether I was worthy to partake of sacrament. Oh and this entire fiasco would also have to be approved by the SP and the HC!

What a mess and utter BS!

So glad that those days are long gone.

"He went on to say that I would need a letter from my BP stating whether I was worthy to partake of sacrament."

When I read stupid stuff like that, I fantasize about doing something like reaching into the sacrament bread tray and grabbing a handful of it and stuffing it into my mouth while glaring at the bishop, daring him to do something about it.

Toronto Boy Wrote:
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> What is the goal today? Back then it was to build
> up Zion. Anyone know what the goal is today?

The goal today is to keep the members from leaving.

It's a lot like trying to stop the flood after the dam has broken though. Too little, too late.

The train has already left the tracks, and like the runaway train that it is ... isn't coming back.

The corporation may keep a handful of the most stalwart from leaving. The "morgbots" is how I describe them. They're the most brainwashed and most resilient to having questioning minds.

If those are the "new breed" of Mormons, the church is going to hyper stagnate even further into obscurity as the morgbots continue to run it into the ground IMHO.

The pioneering spirit of the earliest saints is what's missing today. It simply isn't there. The brain power has already left the station.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2016 05:00PM by Amyjo.

Enjoyment? That went out with Boyd Packer's malignant icy-glazed stare of influence; he was poison - pure poison.

The purpose today?

For the members on the ground: to keep battling onwards towards the Celestial Kingdom no matter what (in every sense of the term).

For the highest in Salt Lake: to keep riding the gravy train for as long as possible.

I grew up in the same era. New wards being organized, building fund suppers every 6 months that my dad organized as EQP, and prosperity abounded, at least up here in southern Alberta. Lots of positive messages in the sermons (that I paid zero attention to after about 2 minutes) and almost no talk about doubting your doubts or in priesthood meeting, masturbation. Just a comfortable place to be on Sunday.

RB

Several months ago I went to an lds sacrament meeting to collect family members. They had flown overseas to visit me but could not manage a Sunday minus church. We arrived a few minutes early for pick up and sneaked into the back. Oh my, did I really sit through 3 hours of that mind numbing boredom for several decades? 5 minutes was enough, and half of that was funeral dirge singing. EVERYONE looked miserable. It served as a good reminder that my life is so much happier now

"Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy."

Which the church mostly was, growing up in the 50s and 60s. Even my mission was fun, but that was because I sort of ignored some or most of the rules...

But it certainly does seem that the afossils are doing what they can to take the joy out of being religious.

I really think a lot of this decay can be associated with "correlation" , the correlation committee was a direct response to the corrupt Mormon leadership realizing that after the 1968 exposure of the Book of Abraham being fake, open and fair discussion would have to be limited and controlled.

Consequently, the culture of Mormonism became more obedient and more ignorant in order to protect the fraudulent leadership.

The lessons became completely controlled and local power over finance and fundraising was moved to Salt Lake to emasculate the local leadership.

it is to say the Mormon leaders and apostles are fucking assholes and crooks.

I joined the church in 1966 several months before turning twenty-one. Church was fun! By the time I resigned the fun was gone. Our family left entirely by 1996. I was the last to go and there have been no regrets.