I was sitting on campus yesterday, enjoying my lunch between class and lab research. I had barely bitten into my sandwich when I was interrupted by two girls who looked like they were barely in high school.

"Can we talk to you for a second?"
"Okay...."
"We are just out here talking to people about what they believe in for class."
"Okay......what do you want to know?"
"Like what do you believe in?"
"Religion?"
"Yeah."
"What kind of class? Like a psychology class or something?" I thought maybe I was going to get a fellow psych student or maybe a philosophy student, or a social work student.....
"Um, We're from the ******* Chapel down the road. Our class is going out to talk to people about Christ."

Oh boy, I thought. Here we go. These poor girls. I'll take it easy on them. They look nice.

"Well, I was raised Mormon. And now I'm not."
"So - what do you think happens after we die?"
"I'm not sure. I don't think anybody can be sure. We don't have any objective evidence. But I'm okay with that. I feel good about what I believe now. If anything, I think I'm close to Buddhism. It speaks to me the most. I'm not attached to emotions about what I can't know."
"But---- do you believe that there's only one God?".... So they were gonna go here....okay.....
"I think that all of the religions in the world are trying to explain the same thing - the energy that drives the Universe, and why things happen. And they all put their own label on it. So - maybe....if by only one God you mean that force that drives the Universe."
"Okay------ but what happens when those Gods say different things? Like the BIBLE says one thing, and the Koran says another? Who is RIGHT?"

I could see they were really trying to prod me in the direction of there only being ONE RIGHT WAY of worshiping a deity. And I couldn't help but think "Geez, they're almost as brainwashed as the Mormons. ;)"

I replied " I think that all the scriptures - the Bible, The Koran, The Torah, the Talmud, the Book of Mormon, the Bhagavad Gita - they're all man's attempt to try to put into words what they think God is telling man. When they disagree, it's because all of those men who wrote the books are coming from their own background. They're influenced by their cultures, their own personal beliefs, and they're limited by their own vocabularies. So, if there's any discrepancies, it's because man can't properly interpret pure energy that may come from that Source." (I don't believe there is a source directing messages, but I was trying to meet them in the middle and be respectful.

"Oh!" a lightbulb went on for one of them. "Like the game of telephone!"

"Precisely", I said.
"So you don't believe the bible is the infallible word of God?"
"No." I said simply. " I don't."
"Okay, well, have a good day".
And they left.

Poor cute girls, I thought. I was nice. But someone else is gonna eat them alive. They're on a college campus with a bunch of intellectual type people - this is not going to be the conversion trip they're hoping it will be.

5 minutes pass. I finish my sandwich. I start in on my bag of almonds.

And another hand comes sailing in across my table, mormon missionary style. "Hi, I'm ******* and I would love to talk with you about what you believe." She plops down across from me without even waiting for assent.

I smiled. This one was a lot more bold and aggressive. This was gonna be FUN.

I would quote the conversation, but it was 20 minutes of her throwing "Obviously GOD says this because the BIBLE says so", and me saying, "Well, no, it's NOT obvious, because there is no evidence. In fact, there is actually scientific evidence to the contrary." Eg - Adam and Eve not being the first people, no geological evidence of the flood, and no historical record of Jesus. And she would not even listen - her eyes glazed over as she was prepping her response. Which was always, well that's nice, but the BIBLE says this. Which means this. And I would laugh, and say "yes, the bible says that. But that interpretation is not necessarily the only one." She HATED that I could quote the verses as well as her and counter every one of her statements instead of just bowing to the "wisdom" that she quoted verbatim from her bible and her pastor.

In the end, the one thing that made her pause in her tirade was when I pointed out that God gave Adam and Eve commandments both to multiply and replenish the earth, and to not eat of the fruit of the tree. They couldn't fulfill one commanment (multiply) until they disobeyed another. (don't eat the fruit). What kind of God would give you contrary commands and then expect you to be faithful in all things?

She was stumped. And then she threw back at me - "Well, have you even READ THE BIBLE? I don't know that it says that."

(I paused for a second and wondered if that was a strictly Mormon teaching. Because if it was, the Mormons threw themselves for a loop there. If procreation wasn't limited until they ate the fruit, then there was no need for them to eat the fruit. And eve would have just been dumb. But it would have saved the whole sin/transgression gymnastics in the first place.)

So I said, "yes, I have read the bible. The whole Old Testament and the whole New Testament".

"Well, I know that it's the infallible word of God. And it's the truth. And you should consider Christianity since you're not Mormon anymore."

And I said "Actually, the Bible itself is what convinced me that Christianity was not for me. Because the God of the Old Testament is vengeful, angry, spiteful, enough that he'd flood the whole earth because he was pissed off. He killed innocent children. Children who would have had time to grow up and maybe choose something different than their parents - to choose goodness. I can't believe in a God like that. And then, the God of the New Testament - Jesus - is totally different. He is all about turning the other cheek, doing good to your enemies, and having compassion on others. Either God is bipolar and can't be trusted. Or he's the same yesterday, today, and forever, and Jesus was an imposter. Either way, it's not super convincing. Thanks, but no thanks."

She left super frustrated that she couldn't ramrod me into her line of belief. And I had the most fun I've had in days. Poor girl. I bet she had no idea that a girl that kind of still looks like a soft and squishy mormon girl would be such a hardened atheist.

Nude tag-team mud wrestling between Evangelical lady mishies and Mormon lady mishies might be an appropriate method for resolving differences between the faiths.

Hmm.....you might be on to something there, GBL. ;)
But the Mormon mishies might insist on Green jello instead of mud.

You were kind.

Really unique thought on Adam/Eve issue. Never occurred to me. Thanks for educating me.....

Gatorman
3-1

Yeah, it was kind of a light bulb moment for me, too. I'd never thought of it that way before. I assumed it was a Christian and not Mormon belief.

I guess I should give brother Joseph a break - he was in over his head making it all up on the fly.

I enjoyed your post. You made those young 'mushies' think. Jesus said we must 'seek' if we are to find and to 'knock' if we want to 'enter in'. Isn't it interesting that all organized religeon discourages the asking of questions by their followers! But they accuse their competition of brain washing their followers. If Jesus is God then He can stand on His own--He doesn't need me or organized religion to defend Him. What do you think? Hmmmmmmmm!

Right? Seek light and knowledge. The glory of god is intelligence. It's all well and good until you start connecting dots- then it's blind obedience time. Smh.

About the Adam and Eve thing, I think that it is just ( or mainly) a Mormon belief. At least from the different Christian churches I have been to, most seem to believe that if Adam and Eve hadn't eaten the fruit, then we would all still exist, just in a perfected state of perfect happiness- no need for the redemption- that not came after the fall( which ruined everything for mankind) at least that seems to be the assumption.

I don't have a source for this, but I thought that a lot of christian denominations believe that the original sin was sex (the forbidden fruit), and that if they hadn't "sinned" it would have just been the two of them forever eating kumquats and naming animals in the garden.

Interesting. Anyone else have more info on the Adam and Eve procreation bit relative to other denominations' beliefs?

Good thing they approached you and not me.
I wouldn't have been so kind.
I do not deal well with that sort of aggression.

I'm with Dave. Asked my kind, thoughtful Lutheran pastor when I was 14 if Christian doctrine held that people like Anne Frank were being tormented in an everlasting hell for not accepting Jeebus as their Savior.

Never went back.

As Hitchens use to say At least in the Old Testament after God had smote you that was it. Like in North Korea. Then gentle Jesus meek and mild shows up and so does post-mortality suffering.