When someone says they still suffer from mormon programming, is it fair to tell them that they're wrong? It must be something else causing their pain?

If a close family member is suffering from what appears to be caused by mormonism, is it logical to say the poster is wrong? Some other poster knows what's causing the problem better than the person who is married to them or lives with them daily???

When a poster is exploring how to recover, is it fair for other posters to tell them they don't know what they're talking about because their problem happens in other religions? The fact that other fundamentalist religions have similar problems seems a poor excuse for discounting what posters are feeling while they're recovering from mormonism.

Is it fair to discount all unfavorable obserations of mormonism as caused by "hatred" when a poster hasn't even expressed hatred? Such a blanket generalization isn't logical.

It makes no sense that total strangers on the internet know the motivations of other posters better than they know themselves. Posters are the only windows we have to the motivations of those who are close to them. Saying they are wrong and hatefilled is unprovable. Discounting whatever they say simply because it's uncomplimentary of mormonism is illogical.

If someone has no problem with believing mormons in their lives, then so be it.

If someone else sees prolbems with mormons they deal with, that's their real experience. Others who have never met them and know nothing of their situation haven't a right to claim to know more about them than they do.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2011 08:27AM by Cheryl.

Thanks Cheryl.

Unwarranted second guessing is a sign of disrespect. Also, dismissing another person's experiences simply because those experiences make the hearer uncomfortable, is immature and disrespectful.

It's clear when hearers are shutting down people who are honestly describing their experiences in Mormonism that this behavior reveals more about the one shutting down than about Mormonism itself.

+1 Thanks again Cheryl.

Today I suffer, I feel like crying. I am angry. I hate the mormon church for all they took from me by their lies and deceit. If I had known the truth earlier I would have left the church and my marriage long long ago.

My life will never be the same, and I am pretty sure I will never recover from the curse of being born into this indoctrinating cult of mormonism.

I hate that they have taken my children's minds from them, that they no longer think for themselves, and are actually told not too. "When your prophet or your leaders have spoken the thinking is over!" WTH?

That my grown kids actually think for one minute that a loving God watches over them personally and on occasion intervenes in their lives. What a pile of CRAP!!!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2011 01:04PM by think4u.

I understand those feelings and want to send you strength and peace.

Take care.

... is that they can't seem to get a grip on the fact that a title like "RECOVERY FROM MORMONISM" gives no indication to anyone with half a brain that its residence is intended to be cult friendly.

These mopologists, of course, are mormons of the one 'm' variety, so I shouldn't expect they have anything other than air between the ears.

And they say I'm mean!

My condolences to Angeybabey and family.

Timothy

It's harsh and cruel to discount a poster who is dealing with heart-wrenching pain.

But, Cheryl, they know best! Or so they like to think. >:o||

Well said Cheryl. Mormon's or ex-Mormons can't lay claim to being the only people affected by a religion. And all our experiences are different from good to very, very, very bad. And here, we should just help each other - exam or ex-anything or just dealing with whatever.

I sometimes cut and paste certain posts that I find exceptional. I then email them to myself as part of an archive but first I go through and delete the mopologists comments.

There seem to be a few who pretend to be clueless about the purpose of this board and think they need to streighten out the thinking of those who come to realize the church is not what it claims. I find their contributions easy to skip, skim, and delete while savoring the experiences of those in the trenches.

.

I like your way of doing things, cut the nonsense out entirely.

Wish we had an ignore user feature!

Thank you everyone.

Thanks, Cheryl, this reminder should be pinned at the front of the forum.


Anagrammy

That's right.. we must never second guess.. I learned that lesson well

is just wrong to me.... it seems to me that is a condescending point of view! and Angeybabey... you seem like a good person and you will encounter many on this board.... and then again...you will encounter others who are not! sorry about your loss and am glad your children are cognizant of their need for counseling! that is a good thing.... k moving on to a less serious thread!! :)

Thanks guys.

Someone posting in pain doesn't need to be called a liar or suggested that they need to "learn forgiveness" or get over their "bitterness." What a slap in the face.

I didn't know there were closet defenders on this board. Of course they deny it if you call them out, but if you read long enough you can recognize the pattern.

My first thread ever, one of them popped in and totally dismissed my concerns. And no one else said boo about it.

So yeah, if I catch one of them doing their slimy tricks to newbies here, I put a word in about it.

It took me a long time to realize there are snakes in the grass, here in our refuge. Not everyone agrees with them, but too often they get away with hissing their smarmy brand of nastiness and confusing the hell out of new people.

i hope i aint considered a snake!! :)

You're perpetually good natured as far as I can tell. :)

Sorry no one covered your back for your first post.

Nobody can see all the new people who post sporadically. I know that now.

At the time though it was like ice water down my neck to discover that not everyone here is about recovering from mormonism.
I was much more anxious then too, and had just discovered I wasn't the only one to walk away from the church. I think my hands shook every time I came here to read for a while. LOL.

Seriously?

So, you have the power to know when someone is a closet believer? I find that to be as ridiculous a notion as a Bishop knowing when he should ask a 14 year old about masturbation. This is the main problem with perceived mental powers.

You don't have it. Bishops don't have it. I don't have it either.

I find it interesting that you can't see the comparison between the type of person that Cheryl is talking about and the opinions you yourself hold about some posters.

Just a thought.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2011 06:45PM by snb.

I guess there could be a difference. It doesn't change anything I just said though.

Perhaps I wasn't clear but I think you probably understand.

Who's second guessing who now?

If you'd been here then and read the post, trust me, you'd agree. But it was oh... going on 5 years ago now, on the other board that died, so it's long gone.

And apologizing for the church is defending it against us damned apostates, which says absolutely nothing about the defender's personal belief in it or not.

It happened long ago and you aren't talking about believers. Cool, I have no problem with that.

I'm not what that has to do with what I said however.

Do you have this magical ability to tell when someone is a closet defender?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2011 07:12PM by snb.

What a delightful example of second guessing. You weren't here for it, yet I should defend my position?

I say it was obvious, you accuse me of reading minds or "magic".

Now I see I wasn't quite clear. But it's so clear in my own head. ;)

When I was new... I posted my exit story with all the pain that went with it, and someone posted a reply that said I needed to brush it off and get on with my life, that I was making a big deal out of nothing.
I can't name the poster or post what I remember because five years on, it would not be an accurate quote, and I won't misquote when I can avoid it.

Does that put my comment about "snakes in the grass" in perspective?
I came for support in the former mormon process for the first time ever, I received a few brief welcomes and one person blatently told me my concerns were of nothing.

That definitely fits "discounting", and I find it a vile, "snake in the grass" tactic, done in a place where a lot of newbies are just barely discovering they aren't alone in the world.

Thank you for your post, Cheryl. Very well said.

Thank you Cheryl. I had already decided not to participate anymore because I didn't want to be "set straight" by anyone. Having someone repeat my whole post to me and then tell me what's what defeats the whole purpose of being here.

I love all the information and stories shared here but I really don't want to do anything but absorb it. Every little piece you all share of your lives and thoughts enriches mine. I mostly just respond to the poster so that they know I appreciate their post and and am able to relate. I like to share sometimes what it is like for me, but I have no answers to anyones trials and tribulations.

For many of us, the complexity of experience that has brought us here is overwhelming at times and things we thought we were over are just deeply buried waiting to surface. I really appreciate think4u's post here. It is so raw and beautiful and I wish you the best.

I think that many times, that's all the OP is looking for.

I agree about the often worthlessness and intimidation tactic of reposting a whole long reply, then writing a dismissive comment about it. Anyone who just read the reply doesn't need to see it reposted, particularly the person who wrote it. LOL

The repost feature can be helpful when someone wants to comment and give advice about many different parts of it.

Try to hang in there and know that not everyone here has your best interests at heart, but I think many do care and do want to reach out with help and support. When that happens, it's worth the static that sometimes gets louder than the whispered love and good grace.

Take care.