to have in your CV the church as former employer? and not in the Morridor? any experiences here?

Touchy question.

On the one hand, as an employer, I'm not supposed to use religious affiliation (or lack thereof) as a reason to hire or not hire anyone. I can't ask about religious affiliation, though if the candidate volunteers the information (like this case), I haven't asked :) So in that case, it's fair game to ask questions about that particular job, though not necessarily about the candidate's belief (or lack thereof) in the church they worked for.

On the other hand, people can and do use religious affiliation (or lack thereof) when they make hiring decisions. The reality is that lots of people do just that, they simply come up with "cover" excuses that are viable so they don't get sued for "religious discrimination."

I once hired a technical director that was a seriously hard-core born again christian. I knew that was the case when I hired him, because he put on his resume that he spent considerable time volunteering for his church's "mission" programs. During the interview, I asked him only if this volunteer work would take away time from his regular job (a legitimate question), and if it would prevent him from the occasionally necessary long hours or travel involved in the new job. He said it wouldn't. He was otherwise qualified, so I hired him.

Six months down the road, I wish I hadn't hired him. His church activities *did* take away from the job -- he would regularly leave early to go do church stuff, and would call in "sick" only to have me find out he wasn't sick at all, he was off "volunteering" at a big revival thing his church put on. He used to lock himself in his office with the door shut during lunch hours, and nobody could find him...then one day he came in with his head shaved. I asked him if everything was ok, and he went into my office, shut the door, and told me his head shaving was "penitence" for being addicted to porn, and masturbating in his office at lunch times (hence the locked door). Then he asked me if I would block access to any porn from his work computer so he wouldn't be tempted. I told him he'd have to exercise some self-control instead, because we couldn't do that without blocking access to things he needed to access for his work. The guy was a hot mess. Every now and then he'd do his job well, the rest of the time his religion got in the way of him doing his job. When he told me he'd found another job about a year later, I was so relieved I didn't have to find a reason to let him go that might come back as "religious discrimination."

I honestly think that outside the morridor, this former employment might raise a question or two, but mormonism is largely viewed is quirky/strange but harmless. If you are asked about it, point out that in Utah the church is one of the biggest employers, and focus on the job you did, not the religion involved. You shouldn't have any problems. Up to you if you let them know you're no longer involved with that church, or at least that church involvement won't interfere in your ability to do the job at hand.

Good luck.

The same day the bookkeeper shaved her head she attacked a client by beating him over the head with the phone.

I wish I could have seen it - he deserved it.

As a hiring manager, it would be difficult to hire someone with a church referenced in their work history when I have dozens of similarly qualified candidates with more meaningful work history.

That's just life.

Wouldn't there be a temptation to make a real low ball offer?

Elderolddog, I am not a native (American) English speaker, you might have to explain the meaning of this to me. Thanks!

The tendency exists to suppose that a religious organization would pay less to employees than a profit making company, so a manager might make a "low ball" wage offer, meaning an offer lower than what might be the norm.

Thanks for the explanation, elderolddog. Many times I have read here comments on how bad the church pays ist employees in SLC, but in my experience it is not the case in Europe.

It depends on the job. I know people that work in translation and printing departments that don't make much. However, I don't know that they would make much more doing similar jobs outside TSCC. I know guys that work in IT and temple building that make good money...as much as they would outside without owning their own companies...of course, TSCC takes 10% of it right back...

I am echoing what hie said. I now live in a reasonably non-Mormon area, and I see the few Mormons around having no problem with employment. I've talked with a few employers of Mormon mutual acquaintances and invariably, the employers have seen the Mormon connection as entirely irrelevant. And, as said earlier, the view of the Mormon church around here is "quirky, strange" but big on family, so it's positive, overall.

If I try to tell local nonMormons some of the less benign things about the religion, I am generally met with disbelief. Because the church is big on families. So I must be mistaken.

You almost certainly didn't work for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. That's only a trademark held by the Corporation of the President and isn't actually incorporated as such.

You almost certainly worked for one of the various Reserve, Inc. that actually own property and prosecute business and that are generically described as working for the Church. Or maybe for the Corporation of the President itself. In these cases give the specific name of your employer and you can explain that you worked for the holding company of a major discreet investor and explain your duties. Do a little digging and figure out which corp actually cut your checks and list them as your employer, not the 'church'

Having the church on my CV (resume) killed my chances of getting jobs at publicly funded schools and universities, though I had a PhD (Higher Education Administration from University of Idaho) and had taught at publicly funded schools (prior to my employment with CES) and a university (part time my last three years in CES); the Corporation of the President auto-signed my checks.

It wasn't because of any prejudice against the church itself that employers were wary of full time CES experience. It was because of the lack of relevant education the church offers its employees while teaching in CES. Everything coming from CES in the way of teacher education/inservice was "teach by the spirit" and other schmarmy, woo-woo!

The thing that saved me was that I networked like crazy when completing my PhD and it worked. That secular education and experiences (internships, etc.) gave me the skills and education I needed to at least get someone to take a serious look at my CV. If I had not had "friends" from my network in high places, I don't know what I would have done.

I think any work history shows that you can hold down a job. I think most employers have common sense. If it's a worker bee job, religion would be a plus.

For management positions, there's the risk of clique formation. They can't help themselves since their "us righteous folks against the world" mentality encourages cliques. However, that can be managed if it's understood. Good management would probably not see this as a big deal and bad management doesn't even know it's a thing, so you're safe either way.

I am talking about a worker bee job, no management position (and anyway, most management positions are held by men, in the church). It wasn't one of the legal entities mentioned by dogblogger, but the church established in a certain country (not the US) as a corporation under public law. It is difficult to formulate the name of the former employer in another way, I usually highlight that it is a corporation.

kenc! ex-CES! Unfortunately I am not good at networking. I am actually even too shy to post here, usually.

Thanks, some interesting thoughts and experiences.

Work on boosting your self confidence and then projecting it both in print and in person. There are Youtube videos for that.

I think it totally depends on the nature of the job and what job skills you gained there and how useful they'd be to any non-church job.

Only your skills and abilities matted in any job worth having. If the hiring manager is somehow bigoted and willing to put petty personal preferences ahead of the skills and abilities that he or she seeks, do you really want to report to that person? Hiring managers have laws to comply with. A true professional puts aside personal prejudices, especially when the law demands it. It isn't about whether or not they are likely to be caught for illegal descrimination. They probably won't be caught. All I know is that I wouldn't be a good fit for an organization, hiring manager, or department that tolerates blatent illegal practices to satisfy the whims of their egos. Companies like that can't compete and don't survive in the long term. If you appear to be able to give your potential employer something of value that they have difficulty finding elsewhere, you will find work. If your skillset can not offer that, you need to learn differen't skills.

>
> Hiring managers have laws to comply with.
> A true professional puts aside personal
> prejudices, especially when the law demands it.
>

Many of us will have had the experience of knowing ahead of time that the bosses knew who they wanted for the vacant position, but had to to 'post' the job opening because of some rules or law.

So people who got excited when they saw the posting, got their hopes up, etc., were wasting their time, because the fix was in. First time I saw this happen I was still human enough to be saddened.

Its all about networking and connections... "Its not what you know its who you know"

Its part of life. Most times someone hiring will ask collegues and friends if they know someone that would be a good fit. Many times a job has to be posted to follow a rule/regulation but they often have a a candidate in mind.

And a place that is constantly hiring is a red-flag for a potential employee, if they cant retain workers there is a problem. I know in my field in my city there is a position that is constantly open. The owner is a super demanding loon.