I need some help here. My son was just married in a beautiful location and was married by a friend of the family. His (now wife) has always proclaimed she wants to have her name removed from the church, and has for the last three years proclaimed she doesn't want anything to do with the church. I have always believed her, no question there. BUT, the ceremony was attended heavily by her family, although they ALL refused to have anything to do with our family or any of my son's friends in attendance, I have learned that Mormons are basically told not to interact or associate with non-mormons. (would have been nice to have known that, we would have left them alone) I have since been wondering if there is an alterior motive.

Would Mormons attend a destination wedding, basically a Christian ceremony, her father walked her down the aisle! And be planning for recruiting my son? This was so weird. But when I look back over the last several weeks, there has been less and less interaction between my son and his now wife with myself and my husband...the morning after the ceremony she threw a fit (it was an ugly scene) because my son opted to load the supplies and tables that had to be returned, she went sightseeing with her family instead of staying and helping to clean up our friends' home who had hosted her family for the week. She went with her family instead of staying with her husband of less than 24 hours. Am I nuts to think her family is trying to suck her back in? Is there an undercurrent of manipulation going on... Feels like a riptide! Her parents supposedly adore my son and freely gave him their blessing when he asked them for it prior to asking her to marry him.

Just all feels weird. More because they have offered them a place rent free, and a job if they move to where her family lives. Is this indoctrination 101, or am I nuts.

Wow! Getting an annulment might really save anguish and pain down the road. In less than 24 hours, she dissed him for her family? Not a match made in heaven. Just a sample of what is to come. Blame her family but also blame the bit*h. Not someone I would want to hang with married or not married.

After careful consideration and some distance, we are guessing she didn't want to be alone with her family... she stood her ground, but I think she was over-tired and extremely stressed.

Not a grand start. Update us after the couple's return from the "destination". Suspect within a week or so of his return the love bomb will hit.." We need men like you"...

Gatorman

Thank you, it wasn't a great start, I hope to.have a conversation with them both sooner than later. I think more understanding is helpful, and it won't be a two way street from her relatives, but I won't be critical of their faith, although I really don't see a valid basis for control, if you don't come into faith willingly and are controlled to stay a a part of it, well, to me that's a cult. Going to be interesting. I can only stay true to loving them both, and try to stay calm and level.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2016 04:05PM by igobygrace.

Amazed, they are once again themselves... "wouldn't move to where they live for all the money in the world Mom" truth and common sense, but what a mind trip.

Big YAY!

Thanks for letting us know.

Remember, RfM is free, and non-fattening!

ETA: Sorry, full disclosure: RfM can be habit forming.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2016 02:55PM by elderolddog.

I will continue to read topics and learn more. I think DIL will need some help -- she is awesome, I will walk through fire for her, but I hope to help her get healthy -- I am still amazed at the control. I so appreciate everyone's posts. Thank you.

Let me get this straight. Instead of going on a Honeymoon right after their wedding, or at least leaving town and away from their families for 24 hours...

You had your son cleaning up the wedding and expected his bride to that as well!?

Call me old fashioned, but I'd have refused to help as well.

I'd be wondering what type of family I had just married into that didn't let me go on my honeymoon.

I don't think that's just the new bride's problem...I think that's something that would be common among most brides (hey, the vacation after a wedding isn't exactly something new).

Of course, going off with my family within 24 hours of my wedding wouldn't be something I'd really want to do either.

That's just...wrong...

Please understand, her family did not help with the wedding. It was understood that we had lots to load and pack up, their honeymoon (after the wedding night away) was set to begin just after. They were not expected to stay once we had the host family's place back together. The arrangements had been made for them to leave the following day.

Betty G Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let me get this straight. Instead of going on a
> Honeymoon right after their wedding, or at least
> leaving town and away from their families for 24
> hours...
>
> You had your son cleaning up the wedding and
> expected his bride to that as well!?
>
> Call me old fashioned, but I'd have refused to
> help as well.
>
> I'd be wondering what type of family I had just
> married into that didn't let me go on my
> honeymoon.
>
> I don't think that's just the new bride's
> problem...I think that's something that would be
> common among most brides (hey, the vacation after
> a wedding isn't exactly something new).
>
The OP wrote that the bride "threw a fit (it was an ugly scene) because my son opted to load the supplies and tables that had to be returned, she went sightseeing with her family instead of staying and helping to clean up our friends' home who had hosted her family for the week."

Preferring to sightsee with her family is understandable--"throwing a fit" and making an ugly scene is not. The bride also should be very thankful to people who hosted her family FOR A WEEK...think what her family saved in hotel costs. I'm sorry, but the bride sounds spoiled and immature. The OP's son is going to be dealing with other unpleasant issues besides Mormonism.

My question: What the heck is the matter with her family that they would, having done nothing to help with the wedding, waltz off and leave others to clean up after them without pitching in to help first?

I don't think this marriage has much of a chance to succeed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2016 12:14PM by bordergirl.

Her family showed up, was taken care of, ate food, danced and left.

>>More because they have offered them a place rent free, and a job if they move to where her family lives.

Oh, they adore your son all right. They want to get your new DIL involved once again with the Mormon church, they want to get your son signed up, and more than anything they want your future grandchildren raised as faithful Mormons. Mormonism is a stongly missionary religion. They are always recruiting.

You didn't have a lot of interaction at the wedding because many Mormons feel uncomfortable around non-Mormons. They also often feel uncomfortable at weddings that are not Mormon temple weddings nor are performed under church auspices.

If you think of Mormonism as being similar in style to the Jehovah's Witnesses, you will get the idea. It is a high-control religion that believes the world must be converted to their specific beliefs. Stick around and keep reading this board. You have a lot to learn.

Also, if you have the means to help the young couple so that they stay closer to you as opposed to moving closer to her parents, I would advise that. It might be money well spent in terms of keeping your future grandkids free of the church.

I agree with summer; most of the "born in the church" Mormons I know don't know how to act around non-Mormons. Think of it as a type of learned, mirrored Asperger https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

These people learn how to act in public from parents, friends, etc...

Also, in the back of their minds, they don't see civil (non-temple) marriages as Sacred/Holy or Blessed by God. They see it as a stepping stone to the Temple or just a temporary contract. In death they can have temple rites performed for them if they never get sealed in the temple in this life.

So very, very rude? Yes. But like I said, think of them as autistic, Asperger suffering humans. They don't intend to hurt or offend and don't comprehend or empathize with outsiders view of their words and actions. The Bride probably does want to see her family. Just because she's inactive or leaving, doesn't mean that she doesn't love and care about her Tribe and family. It probably was a huge misstep that your son and daughter-in-law will have to discuss and talk over.

I hope they will reconsider and opt to live away from everyone, they need to stand together on their own.

they have -- staying put for a year and then going abroad :)

I would like them to go someplace where they won't be able to say they were influenced by anyone. Stand on their own for a few years.

If you think they appear nuts now, wait til your grandkids start popping out.

Your new Mormon relatives must be in a quandary.

1. Do they treat their daughter's marriage as a defeat?
Shouldn't she marry in the temple?
They will have stressed to her "Temple or Bust" for years only to find that she has married a non-Mormon outside the temple.

2. Do they celebrate their daughter's marriage as the end of sin?
Finally, she is now married. At least a marriage to a non-member is better than other living arrangements these days. Now they can work on her to return to Church and convert her husband ... and those innocent children.

A wedding outside of the Church (temple or chapel) will leave Mormons perplexed. What happens next? What has alcohol in it? When does the riot start?

Do they start a "gospel discussion?" You know they want to because the Holy Ghost compels them. Plus, they have no other subjects of conversation. But will non-Mormons be offended?

No discussion whatsoever. They wouldn't engage at all. Except for the elders who spoke and shared with our friends who hosted them. I am guessing because they would be the ones to decide what could be shared and spoken about.

If there was alcohol at the wedding that could possibly explain it. Mormons are terrified of people who drink any amount of alcohol. They were probably worried it was all going to end in a drunken brawl. That's just the way they think. They aren't quite as bad about caffeine, but some of them are. Coffee served at the wedding Oh no! These people are so wicked! Can't wait to get out of here and go sight seeing.

Their daughter was just following their example. Mormons are crazy. I would know.

I think your suspicions have merit. Your new daughter-in-law may just be the Princess in the family as well. And having the newly weds move close to the bride's family sounds like a recipe for control/disaster. What kind of control hasn't been determined yet but it could be anything, including religious rules to be met if they want to keep the "rent free" status. The rules could also change once they are all moved-in and settled and they cannot afford to move out or back to where they are. Are they going to Utah or some other highly Mormon culture zone? They probably want their daughter back in the fold even more than hijacking your son. Getting her married at least keeps her from being a fornicator. For them, that's a big deal.

Frankly, the way they treated your family stinks to high heaven. My niece married an inactive Mormon in a high ranking Mormon family and his parents and siblings acted like duds at the wedding. They were not rude but just less than friendly. They had several of their 30 something children living at home (not my niece and hubby though) and tried to tell me that they couldn't serve a mission because they still had children living at home. I happened to know that if your kids are over 18 they can leave on a mission and their kids were all over 21! I called them on that lie and the father had to admit I was right.

Their marriage lasted one year. Their son had been sleeping around before the wedding and had all his friends and my niece completely fooled. I think the parents knew something and were just hoping my niece would turn him into a better, more stable person. He had a workplace romance, got the girl pregnant, and convinced the girl to have an abortion. It was all a giant nightmare.

It could just be that your family culture and this girl's family culture are worlds apart. Mormons don't usually fit in very well with any other culture outside their own. I know MOrmons that refuse to ever go east of the Mississippi because it is so uncomfortable for them. I hope things work out okay. It is your son's choice to take on this girl and her family so you may just have to let it go.

You might want to do a background check on this girl and family. There might be some skeletons in the closet or it could just be they are so TBM they are not above "Lying for the Lord". Good luck. Wish you all the best.

Thank you, there is likely an undercurrent of manipulation, but it will not go unnoticed, I will have to question a few things with them, but ultimately it will be their decision... although I haven't been known to make a big deal out of much, I will make sure they hear my concerns. And no, I think the lack of interaction was part of their faith, and part of the plan to let everyone know who actually had control...their family was pretty pious. That's all fine, but they don't get to not hear about it at some point and not that they will care, but I will call it for what it is.

"I have learned that Mormons are basically told not to interact or associate with non-mormons" - It looks to me like you may not being giving the entire story here. It looks like you might also be expressing some prejuduce here that your inlaws may be picking up on. Mormons are regularly told to associate with non-mormons so they can have missionary opportunities. For the most part they don't because they don't like leaving their comfort zones.

My son recently married a non-mormon and my wife ended up doing almost everything related to wedding planning, decorating, money for the wedding, reception, non-mormon minister, etc. Is my wife hoping that some day our son will come back to church and our new daughter in law will join the church? Absolutely, that is how she is trained. Will I let her put any pressure on them? Absolutely not. Once you establish with most mormons that you aren't interested in their church, you will find they are mostly very good people (maybe I just think that because I am a NOM that has more doubts than conventional mormon beliefs).

PS, I am not a troll. A couple of people here that are regular posters know me and can attest to that. I lurk here more than on the NOM board because I get better insights here

Mormons do associate with non-members in order to manipulate them into joining. They don't usually like to stand around and chat with them in social settings unless they have an agenda or goal.

I have no prejudices, they are free to practice their faith, but must respect others and they didn't. When you try to introduce the grooms family, Godparents included and they literally turn and walk away, that is pretty serious disrespect in my book. Once I read the articles of faith, I realized they are practicing what they believe, but I will never believe they didn't know EXACTLY what THEY were doing without offering a bit of an explanation as to why they were not sociable. I would have included something in the program so people understood, without being perplexed or offended. This will be difficult, but not insurmountable.

To the OP: I don't know how Mormon you are or were, but sometimes, maybe even most of the time, it is just very hard for active Mormons to socialize on anything more than a superficial level with non-Mormons. And maybe even harder with exmos or inactive Mormons.

And I suspect they do hope to be able to get the kids back in the church. That's what it's about for them. But they also may genuinely be happy for your kids and happy that their daughter found a good husband. My kid went through that too. It was very similar to what you are describing. Their daughter had no interest in the church when they were married, but her family didn't give up, even though they should have been very happy their daughter found someone who was a hard worker and responsible, because she'd be hard pressed to be able to do that again (marriage didn't last).

I wouldn't read too much into it right now. It will take some time to get to a place where everyone is comfortable with each other. Hopeful your DIL will see if there is manipulation and will nip it in the bud early on. Once her family accepts that the Mormon thing is not an option, it will be easier to settle into a place of mutual trust.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2016 04:22PM by NormaRae.

Wow. There's a lot of stuff going on in your post. Some of it irrelevant to the main issue.-
"Just all feels weird. More because they have offered them a place rent free, and a job if they move to where her family lives. Is this indoctrination 101, or am I nuts."

No, you're not nuts. This should remain your top priority & focus.
Mormons always have ulterior motives, especially with new, non-mormon family members. They're programmed from birth for "every member a missionary" crap. They never stop believing & scheming toward that goal. Living under their roof, rent free, is a carrot designed to keep them close & listening to their message. You didn't say how far they live from you. If close by, I'd suggest inviting them for dinners. If you're a decent cook, your son will miss that. Plan family activities, invite his wife's family (they may decline because they are socially awkward around Gentiles), you could also plan stuff on Sundays. Watch for withdrawal from your son. If you have a strong communicative relation with him, keep talking about mormons scheming. You may even show him this site & thread. Keep this in mind- mormons are relentless. They're like that Terminator that kept coming after he was dismembered & partially melted. They don't have to suck your son in in a few months or a year. It will be a constant, concerted effort, sometimes involving other cult members. Stay vigilant.

+1000 Spot on...No truer words, "Mormons always have ulterior motives, especially with new, non-mormon family members. They're programmed from birth for "every member a missionary" crap. They never stop believing & scheming toward that goal."

This!

Mormons always have ulterior motives. They may eventually give up on your son but they won't give up on her. The fun really begins when grandchildren enter the scene.

Hopefully, your son and DIL will choose to live far, far, away from these people.

Time to plan your strategy.

Your goal is to remain an important part of your son's life and the lives of his children.

Make your home always welcoming and stress free. Do not criticize her family in front of her. Insist, without being overbearing, that they spend at least some of the holidays with you. Invite them on vacations with you.

I have a similar situation. My DD converted and later married in the LDS temple (a story for another post). Her DH is great and they have three adorable children.

We immediately embraced him as a part of our family. Our extended family followed our queue even though they (and we) were bitter about the exclusion from the wedding. We never criticized Mormonism in front of him. We take them on family vacations with us. They visit us and we visit them often. It takes work to keep the relationship going.

It is true that sons will tend to gravitate to the wife's family because that is where she is most comfortable, so you need to make your home and relationship comfortable for her.

It has paid off for us. They visit us often (they live in another state) and we visit them. When their children were born, it was me they asked to come and help. I am an important part of their lives, while they barely know their TBM grandmother.

When he visits our area on business (without the family), he will stay with us even though he has other family in the area.

It pays off. Think long term.

Thank you, I am hoping to have a discussion on just that. Go away from everyone and build a life together, then visit.

I know from personal experience. As a nevermo I married a TBM almost 40 years ago. A few years into our marriage DH found out the truth about Mormonism and resigned. We spent the first several years of our marriage living in a small UT town surrounded by his TBM relatives-finally we moved to the east coast to my family. TBM family knows that we are completly opposed to Mormonism and we made no bones about telling them why. They will NEVER GIVE UP and their motivation will always be to win over the non/inactive Mormon. When the grandchildren arrive it will just get worse. The insidious part of it all is that you might be tempted to drop your guard with them but that will be a major mistake. Even after all these years, on the rare occasion we get together they can't help but try and put in a plug for their church.

Mormons are used to thinking of themselves as superior-they have themselves convinced that they are. When they get in situations with non Mormons who don't fit their vision of what a non Mormon is their cog dis becomes painful and they don't know how to act.

Remembering you in my prayers as the road ahead may be difficult.

Marriage it tough as we all know. It seems that your DIL's family is leaning on her and she is scrambling to meet their expectations. She may be out of the cult but she still wants the support and love from her TBM family. Hell - everyone on this board wants that. The only problem is that TBM love comes at a price; tow the line with the cult or be cut off. I'm sure that she was hoping to have her freedom and the support of her family but that is very hard to do with cult-members.

I keep on using the word "cult" here because this is a defining characteristic of cults; they keep their members in by manipulation and control. By offering a free place to live and a job for your son they are putting them both in a situation where they can be controlled easier. There are so many ways to control someone. Physical Abuse is only one aspect of control. Financially (withholding money or salary) , emotionally (withholding love) , or physically (not allowing privacy or preventing access to a different location). We have all seen this in action.

You are not crazy for thinking that your son may be pressured into joining a cult. It appears that your in-laws are working to make that happen. I would urge you to talk with your son about this and let them know that the easier path, the one with the free rent and job, comes at a price. Point out all of the ways his TBM in-laws can control them both. This could end his marriage if his wife is forced to choose between her husband or her family. Once your son refuses to join the cult they will pressure his wife to leave him, or at least make it very difficult for him to stay with her without supporting the cult in some way.

Good luck with your son. I hope they can work it out without relying on the support from cult members.

"Just all feels weird. More because they have offered them a place rent free, and a job if they move to where her family lives. Is this indoctrination 101, or am I nuts."

Oh yeah. Free rent and a job? This is a red flag about the size of, oh, Mount Everest. Beware of Mormons bearing gifts. There's nothing "free" about this.

Mormons are instructed to be constantly in full recruitment mode. One of the ways they do this is to make non-members feel indebted to them. Then they have the nons repay the debt by doing church stuff.

We had a topic recently where a Mormon did a job for a non-member that would have cost $100, but rather than take the money, he asked the non-Mormon to come to church.

I recall another episode related here where an unbelieving Mormon moved back in with his Utah parents due to financial issues. The parents promised him that he wouldn't have to go to church, but after he had moved back in, parents invoked "our house, our rules" and forced him to return to activity under threat of eviction.

With the housing and employment, they will have immense leverage on your son. IMO, your in-laws are going for a bait-and-switch; they will insist that, at minimum, the couple attend church on Sundays and your son meet with the missionaries. Perhaps not right away, but within weeks or months at most.

They will work relentlessly on their daughter to recommit, your son to convert, and both to become "worthy" for a temple marriage. They… won't… stop. And they will be pressuring to get the grandkids coming ASAP, while they're in a position to exert maximum control. The cult wants the kids because children are easily indoctrinated.


"when I look back over the last several weeks, there has been less and less interaction between my son and his now wife with myself and my husband"

It's already started. Minimizing activity with nonbelievers is a classic cult technique. Eliminating your influence is an initial step to drawing him in. It's up to you to keep the contact going; email, texts, Skype, whatever you can manage. Good luck.

I have a very overbearing lds mother and will do almost anything to keep her pleased as to not upset her and have her lash out on me. So probably if she wanted to go sightseeing with me I would have done that too. The guilt trip is so strong I flew over and did what you wanted the least thing you can do is spend some time with us bla bla bla..
So far what I have read put it as stress of the wedding and don't be too hard on daughter in law who did not deal with pressure well at this time. Maybe she is pregnant and does not want to lift because she is worried of a miscarriage, maybe she is spotting (I don't want to start rumors maybe she was a virgin who knows). All I am saying is please don't give it more meaning as it should. On TV was a show called "bridezilla". I got married on a Saturday and had to work nighshift on the next Monday and his family felt that I was not social enough. To be honest all I wanted was sex and sleep and I did not care one bit about pictures flowers and all the other stuff.

Thank you. Not pregnant(yet) and hope they wait a good long while as they have stated they would...I give the bride a lot of room, it was an incredible amount of pressure to have them all there, holy smokes! We will see what happens over the next couple of weeks.

While Mormons aren't necessarily adept at socializing with nons depending upon whether or not they reside in the morridor, whoever relayed to you that Mormons are told not to interact with or associate with non-Mormons engaged in a bit of hyperbole. If alcohol was involved, they likely felt obligated to make it painfully obvious that they were not partaking, probably to the extent of isolating themselves somewhat. Otherwise, they're not told to shun nevermos in social settings. I agree with Cheryl that their attempts at socializing with nevermos are not without ulterior motives. If a Mormon is very friendly to a non-Mormon, the reason is usually obvious to most of us who have been around for awhile. But they don't as a rule (I'm not saying it's never happened) shun non-members. They DO shun exmos, but that's a whole different story.

It sounds as though because this was a non-Mormon ceremony, the Mormons involved felt that they were more than doing their part simply by making their appearances. The actual work was up to someone else.

I wish you and your son lots of luck.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2016 01:47AM by scmd.

Without the benefit of mind reading, I would agree with the assessment that she was probably having a bridezilla moment. Maybe being conciliatory with her family, who didn't boycott her wedding,but participated though it was very uncomfortable for them, and against what they would have wanted (temple-worthy RM) for her. They were being oblivious to "normal" manners, and she was thinking, "Don't you know how much they sacrificed to attend!?" They were doing good not to fall apart, and probably needed to escape all the unfamiliar non-mormon atmosphere before they cracked, especially following the wedding. I sort of doubt it was really a "sightseeing" trip, but a mixture of heart-felt tears and well-rehearsed manipulation. Your son's presence on that trip would have lessened the planned pressure, and DIL knew it. I think her meltdown was more of a "Save me!" but he felt cleaning was more important. Just saying. Her perspective.

And it's true. Sad, but true. Their daughter has broken their hearts, and I guarantee that their only consolation right now is their hope that the "inactive" part is temporary. They will do everything in their power to win her - and him - back into the church.

I would also agree that living with the parents is in alignment with that goal.

You are not nuts, but now dealing with in-laws from a different planet, who want their daughter back, at any price. I would try to beat that offer, help them live apart, as you suggest.

What an AWESOME assessment. Thank you enmove... you are more than correct, but also gave me a bit more to consider. I knew she was under enormous pressure -- and while their family was distant, they never seemed to be sad over the wedding, although, there is no telling what they were actually thinking. Her elders, (grandparents) were cordial with the host family, and shared insight into their life, but had no interest in the grooms family. I was initially annoyed, but given some time, and their need of each family member for eternity... well, I bet they had a problem in terms of their version of eternity. My son did go visit with her family later that same night, and spent the night with them -- so no telling what went on there, but DIL has always said she is stronger with them when he is with her. More power to them both, they manage not to make anyone upset, and just have kept moving forward. They are now happy and back at work, and do not plan on moving to where her family is...a good thing. Thank you again.

Speaking as someone who married a Mormon outside the temple, yes, you should be concerned. Mormon parents NEVER give up. If the wife resigns, the Mormon inlaws will still try to subversively get ahold of any grandchildren and convert them to the church. They literally feel eternal salvation is on the line. They also want everyone to think and act exactly as they do - very conformist.

I strongly recommend the couple NOT live with Mormon inlaws. Geographical distance from Mormon family is your best bet. We took the Mormon inlaws up on 'free living' arrangement because my parents were super unsupportive, and I ended up converting - and I was originally pretty against it. My husband was a non practicing Mormon when I married him, but the pull of the church and family is very strong, especially once a Mormon (even non-practicing) has kids. He changed his tune, and I could tell it was very important to him that I convert.....

Mormon family will offer just about anything to get you to trust them, to feel you 'owe' them. My FIL offered to take my MIL shopping after church if she went to church with him - for 5 years because she loves shopping so much. It worked - she converted. The desire to be 'in unity' with a spouse and family is a strong pull and Mormons are super manipulative and shady - they will use any tactic to get you to convert or come back.


I would find out where she really stands - like, does she really disbelieve it, and what are her Reasons? Or has she just fallen away from practicing..... Resignation is a true sign of being willing to stand up for her disbelief to her Mormon family.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2016 10:20AM by dogeatdog.