Chief searches through various dating apps and websites for other gay guys to date. He found one. Let's call him Godsend for the sake of the story.

Chief is going nuts about Godsend. I have only glimpsed this kind of giddiness in young straight couples that can't stand to be separated from each other. Huh... Seeing is believing.

Why (as a TBM way back when) did I ever feel the need to take gay people aside and lecture them about their psychology? I don't understand it.

I suppose religion in general has made a habit of checking in on people's sex lives and arranging things in its favor. But then there were gay people, whom religion decided to perpetually smear and oppose rather than question their biases when it became socially appropriate to not be a bigot.

The LDS church in particular is guilty of this. It arranges people's sex lives and romantic choices in its own favor to perpetuate itself by securing a new generation of little Mormons. And when it came to homosexuals, they were convenient victims to make seem like some far-off, vague threat trying to topple society — the barbarians at the wall — for the church's own purposes. It was convenient to invest in using gays as a prop to prove that Satan was real and people's only hope was to depend on the church to protect them.

But Chief is no threat to anyone. Neither is Godsend. And I'm rather proud to be Chief's big brother. I told him jokingly and lightheartedly that I'm glad he's experimenting with who he is and that he came to the conclusion that he was gay, because now he's the closest thing to a baby sister I'm ever going to get to be a protective big brother for. Seriously, though, my fond feelings are not too far removed from how I put it.

He's my gay brother. I think this is part of who he has always been: the effeminate one, the wearer of mom's nightgown at seven years-old who would pretend to be Disney's Mulan, the one born to be a thesbian in high school. It's too perfect. This is who he is, and I love him for it all. I will stand by him through it all and create a safe place for him to experiment with his social identity in ways that I never had when I was his age. I want him to grow, and I don't want him to give up on dating because of a bad break up or something. And then he found Godsend, and — my God — who would have thought two young gay guys could ever share something so innocent with each other, as any other kind of couple.

There's no "gay agenda" here — except for all the things they must want to do to each other in due time. But that's personal, consensual, and as innocent as two other people in the same circumstance. Chief and I have a habit of talking very frankly with each other. It's made de-Mormonising ourselves easier to have someone close who listens. But when it comes to this, and since he found Godsend, I've been trying to impress upon him that I don't need to know absolutely everything. I'm proud of him and I'll listen whenever he needs to talk about something, but some things are sacred and shouldn't be shared in too much detail.

Perhaps that sums up what the Mormon church took from our gay brothers and sisters: the sacred and mysterious experience of love.

(And they had the audacity to pretend like it was the other way around, that gay love in some way cheapens love for straight people.)

I will never understand the views I had 3-4 years ago. Nor can I repent sufficiently enough for holding them.

Your brother is lucky to have you!

This is a beautiful post, Cold-Dodger...I was smiling and had tears in my eyes as I read.

I echo imaworkinonit...your brother is very lucky to have you!!!

:) :) :)

Mega Dittos. Amazing world when we support each other.

Gatorman

It sounds like you are a loving, supportive brother to Chief, Cold Dodger. Don't worry about who you used to be. What good is living a life if not to learn and grow?

Very best wishes for you and for Chief! Ah, young love...

Cold-Dodger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> He's my gay brother. I think this is part of who
> he has always been: the effeminate one, the wearer
> of mom's nightgown at seven years-old who would
> pretend to be Disney's Mulan, the one born to be a
> thesbian (sic) in high school.

According the latest research, the odds of him being "born" that ways is totally unsupported. Science 2.0 has an interesting overview of the study of over 200 peer-reviewed studies (http://www.science20.com/news_articles/on_sexuality_you_werent_born_that_way_says_paper-178847). And the actual paper can be found online too.

DocJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cold-Dodger Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > He's my gay brother. I think this is part of
> who
> > he has always been: the effeminate one, the
> wearer
> > of mom's nightgown at seven years-old who would
> > pretend to be Disney's Mulan, the one born to be
> a
> > thesbian (sic) in high school.
>
> According the latest research, the odds of him
> being "born" that ways is totally unsupported.
> Science 2.0 has an interesting overview of the
> study of over 200 peer-reviewed studies
> (http://www.science20.com/news_articles/on_sexuali
> ty_you_werent_born_that_way_says_paper-178847).
> And the actual paper can be found online too.

Interesting.... of course it doesn't account for some of the animal kingdom who are gay. How do they explain that?

Oh brother. There is alway one person that takes a thread from supporting gay people to "they choose to be that way"

DocJ, first of all, the authors of this "study" are known to have anti-gay tendencies. Second, as a gay man myself I can testify that I was born this way and that no amount of prayers, fasting or therapy changes your sexual orientation.

And even if being gay was a choice (it's not), who the fuck cares if two consenting adults want to have sex with each other as long as they are not cheating on someone?

I am sorry you have a shitty sex life, I really am, but don't blame gay people. Blame yourself.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2016 08:53AM by Atari.

Yes there's always one who says being gay is a "choice". So I
always ask them how old they were when they chose to be straight.
since according to them, sexual preference is a "choice".

Interestingly enough, they can't answer that.

Who cares? Love is love. You're an awesome brother, Cold-Dodger, right when Chief needs it the most.

I'm as fascinated as the next science junkie about the science behind "what is 'gay'"

But what a lot of people miss is that whether it's nature or nurture or some of both, there is no reason to take gay people aside and tell them they cannot have the thing that clearly makes them happiest (except that some readings of the Bible cause people to think God appointed them to do this).

There is no reason. The language the Bible uses to condemn gays it uses again precisely the same way, verbatim, to say that shrimp is an abomination and that cross-dressing (that is, dressing up in fabrics made of two different kinds of material) is an abomination. And it sentences everyone to death over the stupidest stuff, including boiling a kid (baby goat) in its mother's goat milk. It fails utterly to distinguish the gravity of these offenses from each other. So, since it does not have a corner of morality, it should never begin a discussion on how to build a healthy, happy society.

Now, there was a document written more recently, which I consider as profound as scripture should have been, that says, "We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, and that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness..."

Chief is clearly more alive this way than he ever was waiting on others to tell him what he has permission to be. When set at liberty, this is what he is, this is what he does, and this is who he is... clearly, apparently, and evidently. Science can provide insight into why or how this is, but it does not grant anyone license to violate his privacy and his dignity to tell him that his life is all out of whack.

Beware the pseudoscientist who talks about gay people like they need to be locked back up in a cage pending further tests, because it's really just someone who can't stand to be wrong about his description of and proscriptions placed upon somebody else's life. Get over it, because we don't live in a Bronze Age theocracy: we live in America, a secular democracy where people have certain rights. I thought this was self-evident.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2016 11:45AM by Cold-Dodger.

The bible appointed me to point out that this is a beautiful post.

That was beautiful Cold-Dodger.... somehow you've captured how

beautiful it is to have a gay person that loves you and that

you love. Thats how I feel about my daughter who is also

gay.. I told her the other day that it is such a blessing

to have her in my life. She is the absolute finest person

I have ever known. I love her so much and I so admire the

love she gives her son who is Autistic.

Beautiful, thank you.

Just to say for anyone to whom it might matter, the Biblical verses that are read as condemning as they are written, actually are a misinterpretation of the scriptural truth which actually refers to being proud. (And that pride not at all in the context of sexuality)

Not that this will matter to many I expect but it has been a huge part of my journey and someone on here helped me get to this understanding which has changed my life, so it seems right to mention it.