The last time the missionaries knocked on my door was a few years ago. I recorded the conversation on this forum in an attempt to vent. Decompressing after the conversation really helped me out.
Hopefully it will work again tonight.

I moved to this current house a year ago. The JW's came knocking last year, but otherwise it's been quiet as far as proselyting missionaries.



So, an hour ago I was in the middle of reading this exmo website and I saw 2 elders parking across the road. It's a very quiet street. My neighbors had a death yesterday and I thought they were going next door. I don't know the neighbors very well, because when we moved in we were told that they have cancer, so I left them have their neighborly space.... although I didn't think they were mormon.

About 5 minutes later they knock on my door.
I was a member convert who resigned, so none of my family are lds. But my husbands brother and sis-in-law are lds, so maybe they sent them.
Or maybe an lds in my network of people sent them over, but I'm not sure who. Only a few people in my moron network know I used to be lds, except my in-laws.

The guys looked like they were looking for a house number.

I'm in the middle of renovating the house and wasn't about to let them in, so I stood at the door.

They looked like they were 13.

They asked me if I knew anything about Mormonism. My dog wanted to play with them and that made everything light hearted. My dog is adorable and melts heart.

I told them that I knew a lot about mormonsim; probably more than I'd ever wish to know.

They asked me about it.

I didn't tell them that I used to be lds, but I told them I'm familiar with all the mormon beliefs and I don't believe in it.

They said not to read anti information but to be careful what source I use.

So I said that I read all sources, starting with the lds website article that describes Emma and Joseph's meeting and marriage.
Then I read ex mormon information and church journal information.
The problem was that the lds site left out massive pieces of information, making it appear that Emma's parents were in agreement with the marriage and glossed over it all.
But wiki provided information that showed The Hale's weren't on board.
Then I went to the lds journals which detailed that the Hales didn't like Joe because he was a money digger and took money without providing goods.
I asked why the lds site left out important information presenting a story that wasn't reality. I asked why they didn't present i upfront and honest information.
Then I said that was a big red flag and if their dishonest about that what else are they dishonest about.
I couldn't trust them.
I described to the elders that it wasn't the so-called anti information that was dishonest; the lds website information was dishonest.

They didn't reply.


I said that it's likely easier for them to believe in it because they've been raised to believe it. When you're raised in a culture you're more likely to believe the culture.

One elder said that his dad was born Catholic and joined to marry his mom, so his dad wasn't raised in it.
I replied that he obviously had a motivating influence, but also when a person is raised to believe in a system it isn't too difficult to change religions when the underlying belief is already there. Especially if you have a big motivation, like a girlfriend.

I said that my husband left atheism for Christianity last year due to a traumatic life experience. People's needs are often met through religious beliefs.

So they said that I should read and pray about the book of mormon and ask God for the truth.

I said that I had and the answer was that it wasn't something I should be involved in. I left out the part where I was a RM, temple married when I strongly felt that I needed to leave mormonism.

I mentioned that years later I researched dna and discovered that scientific dna doesn't support the Book of Mormon.
I mentioned that today I saw a news article supporting Siberia as the origin for Native Americans. I explained that new articles keep coming forward and science keeps validating this.

I asked where the Book of Mormon claims the American Aboriginals originated?

The elder said, " Lehi from Jerusalem."

I replied that mormon apologists who were not scientists had a way of claiming that the dna could prove the bom is true.
But they're NOT genetic scientists.

((I was very sweet and kind in my delivery at all times.))

I stated that I understand the need to support a belief but it's not intellectual or spiritual honest.
I described that I researched non mormon genetic scientists who all disproved the bom theory.
I explained that the science lab I contacted had no investment in Mormonism at all. They were a genetic lab who merely provided the current dna information.

He said to pray about it.

I realized that he wasn't connecting the dots, so I repeated that I did pray about it and didn't feel "good" about mormonism..... Then later I discovered that the dna didn't support the book of mormon and that must be the reason I didn't feel good about it.

They caught on to what I meant at that point.

It was very clear that neither of them had any idea about the dna issue.

I told them that the book of mormon just isn't supported by science and it's not true.

I said, people will feel good about whatever it is they want to believe. Even people who haven't grown up in a belief system can develop experiences to believe in something.
(I don't know if that has to do with quantum entanglement en mass theories or what, but I know it can happen, and it does happen. I know it happens within the born again community. They have experiences of devil/savior, but I believe that's the internal good/bad aspect coming forward and splitting off externally. Born agains call it the accuser/devil and the Savior/Jesus.)

Also, people have been culturally trained to give their power away to the alpha higher/better more powerful.


I explained that having a feeling, or even an experience, doesn't mean something is true, it just means a person is very open to believing in something. It means that they're responding and adapting to a belief. They may not have heard all the belief, which makes me consider the theory of quantum entanglement en mass. This is the only possible explanation for people to believe the book of mormon is true BECAUSE Science dna and archaeology, anthropology has all shown that the bom is not true.

I explained that psychologically I critique the experiences and they evaporate when I allow myself to research information and know that they aren't true.

I described that my husband is a born-again Christian because he had trauma that opened him up to believe in something. The belief came in to fill that void and hole. He doesn't critique and therefore doesn't want to learn truth.

I said that we respect each others journey in life and that I respect theirs, and that I hope they will not be afraid to critique.

They said the church welcomes questions, but they were still dazed and glazed over from their complete lack of knowledge about the dna bom problem.

At this moment one of the many guests who were visiting next door got in his car, which was parked in front of my house. The street was lined with houseguests visiting the young widow and her 2 kids next door. The man got out of his car, quickly walked up my walkway to my door and said to the elders in a very firm and strict voice, "you better not go next door because there was a death yesterday and we do not want you bother them."

Again, the elders looked like they were 13 yr old kids and I know how stupid some of these white bred lds truth-preaching missionaries can be, so I reaffirmed to the two guys, "you do NOT want to go next door at this time of death because your message preaching wouldn't be welcome. Please do not consider going next door."

The said they wouldn't.

Since we were talking about dna and the 2 guys obviously had never heard of it before, the one elder brought out his cell phone and was going to look into it and then just held it in his hand stunned and speechless.

((I was surprised they were allowed to use cell phones. my mission was pre-cell phone era, but we weren't even allowed to watch tv or listen to music other than church music on p-day.))

While he was stunned holding his cell phone, I explained the Jeremy Runnels story and asked them if they knew about the CES letter. They thought they may have heard something, but I doubted they were being honest so I filled them in.

I said that he went on a mission and was a very believing and devoted mormon. Then he learned a lot of information that turned out to prove all he learned and taught was essentially lies. He wrote a letter to the CES asking the leaders to come forward and tell the truth.
They didn't. Instead he got a few apologists, but nothing that was a coherent explanation.
Then I explained that he taped his church excommunication hearing and again told them that he'd done nothing wrong.

The elders said he must have done something wrong to be exed.

I said that he'd lived a clean life and the only thing he'd done was put up a website with issues and questions, asking leadership to provide answers and clear up the questions. Again the leaders never came forward.

In the hearing he asked the residing leader to answer questions. The tape shows the leader dead silent.

I said that based on all my research the modern mormon leadership can't be trusted. Historic mormon Utah leadership cannot be trusted. The men in Utah are not honest and the lds website has displayed many dishonest articles which try to paint them in a very good light --- but it's not the truth.
How can I get the truth from a website that's lying.
But, you've just told me not to go to anti information.
However, that's where I found information that pointed me to the truth. By going back into lds approved historic records I was able to verify the truth that your ''anti'' groups provided which also incriminated the lies of the lds websites and Utah leaders.

I said that for this reason, on top of lying about the dna, I couldn't trust the mormon leaders.
Your mormon Utah leaders aren't honest.


All the information shows that it's not true. The only group that says it's true is the lds site and Utah leaders, however they are in direct contradiction to their own historic truth.
If a person gets a feeling like the book of mormon is true it's got to be a psychological influence, in which case I'd get a therapist to evaluate why I'm having this experience, since there is no dna to prove it's true.
I said, guys you're preaching the book of mormon but it's not true. Check out the science.


They knew that they had no knowledge of the dna discrepancy and shut down again.

At this point I did what I've done each time the missionaries proselyte at my door.... I head to the pantry and bring them food. I sent them off with a couple of powerade drinks, a bag of trail mix and my favorite weekend chocolate chip pillsbury dough cookies I baked last weekend.
I said, "you guys are probably not even from this country are you." They replied that they were from California and Idaho.

Then I wished them well on their journey and to not trust those guys in Utah because their liars, and that I hope they have a life of truth; be humble and kind.

They wished me the same, shook my hand and didn't have a thing to say. They got in their car and drove off with their food stash.

I hope they use their cell phone tonight to check out the truth behind the dna lying lds propaganda.


Maybe my story about getting all information from all sources and not just trusting the lds lying website information might give them a shake up.

I was super nice and they didn't know what to make of it.
I hope they enjoy their treats.

Great! I bet they drove away thinking "Woah!!" You'll get a mention in their journals lol. But hopefully it may help them to think more.. just think more.

The sister missionaries came by here last week. I'd been dodging them since I recognised the churches lies.
I was finally ready.
I was kind, even gentle, but firm. I'm no longer a doormat. I spoke about the rock in the hat and joes polygamy mainly. I asked them if they had read the gospel topic essays and they head never heard of them. They looked a bit shell shocked when they left.

Amazingly they came back this week and said they went and checked out the essays. Then went over the same ole ground of prayer and the HG. Well at least they looked.

I'm glad I spoke to them but was left feeling a bit angry that these young people are being sent out as ambassadors for a church they seem to know nothing about (I'm an RM too so I get that), but they haven't been prepped at all about any of these issues.
Either that or they're lying. But they seemed genuine.

Well, good on you for laying it all out. Might give them something to think about.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2016 04:25AM by blakballoon.

Thanks for sharing your story. I really appreciate it.

Yes, at least the sisters looked. That's a step isn't it.
But did they read it?


But what did they think of it.
Did they have any opinion other than praying about it?
Could they provide a discussion about their own opinion?

It might get them to think outside the mormon programmed box.

It's awkward to engage in a conversation under that kind of stress though isn't it?

I wish people would have taken the time and interest to tell me on my mission, but those who didn't believe it usually quietly objected and turned away without engaging. It would have helped me connect the dots on my mission. I couldn't figure out what was wrong, or what I sensed was wrong and why I didn't feel like I fitted in even though I tried and tried.



I generally stay away from poly/polyandry topics for reasons I mentioned in today's polyandry conversation thread.
It's not really worth it.
As a past tbm and missionary I know all the excuses to cover it up and give JS sexual immunity.

It's only when one is allowed to break the program that their able to establish their own opinions that contradict with the tbm JS carte blanche approach.

I think it's a chance to prove what their made of; will they desire truth even if their network doesn't support it, or will they

..... but dna bom and BoA fraud can't be denied or told that it doesn't matter anymore.
Especially when they're preaching to pray about the BoM.
That's a perfect time for dna.
Interesting that I noticed the new Siberian dna/American Aboriginal connection earlier today, which I provided on the forum.

Then by letting them know that the lds sites can't be trusted, with their reputation for omitting information, allows us to invite them to go to other information and cross reference it back to the lds journals to inquire why the lds sites omit historical original journal info and the non-mormon data includes it. .... or why the real info comes from the dreaded anti sites they initially told me to avoid.

That sounds like some great anti-missionary activity (as in anti-matter), Quirky Quark.

With luck, their faith will explode ;-)

Well done!

Tom in Paris

Way to go,it sounds like you may have gotten the ball rolling(and did it in a nice way!).

thanks.

Today, in hindsight, I wished I would have added a few things.

I did mention that I'd read the other books, not just the bom, but I wish I had said that the Doctrine and Covenant is full of lies to support Smith's need for extra marital affairs and the book of abraham is a proven fraud.

The missionaries bring up the book of mormon as a preaching conversion point, so if they show up next time I will focus on the book of abraham.

I could tell that part way through they were trying to leave, but I kept chatting. I thought no chance! You guys knocked on my door and infringed on my privacy and I'M GOING TO BE THE ONE to decide when I'm done - not you!

I wonder if the only 2 options their taught is to ask the person to pray and then get out fast.

The prayer request was shot down, so they wanted to get out.

Trying to control me on my doorstep is not a good idea.
I'm a very, very fast talker and didn't give them a chance for an opening to leave.
If they wanted to leave before I gave them leave they would have had to run off in the middle of my conversation.

You probably did the right thing by sticking to what you did. Too much and they might have shut down. Once they start looking some stuff up, they will likely continue to other issues.

Congratulations!

What's your address? Some chocolate chip cookies would really hit the spot right about now.

I represent the Church of getbusylivin. Our founder, getbusylivin, translated the Book of getbusylivin from the configuration of cat turds that he discovered one day in the litter box. Don't believe what you read on the internet; if you pray you will know that the Book of getbusylivin is true.

I'll be over shortly. I promise not to bother your neighbors. Orange-flavored powerade drinks go best with chocolate chip cookies, fyi.

hahaha

I only have blue and red flavored powerade drinks in the pantry.

I gave them 2 of the blue ones.


Thanks for not bothering the neighbors. Yesterday i dropped off a cheese and meat platter, a vegetable dip platter and a box of vegetable thin crackers for the big crowd at the house and didn't want to interfere with their mourning.
She's only 43 and a widow, with a 10 yr old and 19 yr old.
I'm sure she'll getbusylivin in time, but it's the young kid that makes me sad.

I ate the rest of the chocolate chip cookies after they left.
I stress ate.

What an awesome visit and discussion.

The last time they came to my door, I was trying to unload my wagon after grocery shopping. They were too damn nosy and snarky while trying to rummage through my shopping bags. With my luck, I had Elder Prick and Elder Hardnosen. They were antagonistic and I was in an equally foul mood. So I told them to leave the property because I didn't want to discuss church and one of them started to lock their bikes on my front porch column. So I told them that they had two minutes to get off my property and then I would call the sheriff. So Prick flat out told me he wasn't moving, so I went inside my house and Hardnosen panicked. This wacko began to shout (through my door) that HF was extremely disturbed of speaking ill against the Lord's Annointed. So I dialed the sheriff and told him of un-welcomed people refusing to leave private property. They said, "We're on the way." About a minute before the sheriff arrived, both got on their bikes but remained in my front yard. Those turkeys rode off as the sheriff
pulled up. It was just as well because the mishies were only going to receive a warning because I didn't have a visible sign. The sheriff advised me to buy a "No Trespassing" sign and have it in a visible spot and they would enforce the sign with a citation. Good advice because they haven't come by for several years now.

oh wow!

were they looking for something in your bags to use against you?

After a few hours of grocery shopping I likely would have been irritated too.
No speaking ill of the the lord's anointed?
hmmm, I'll give you ill language and some real loud laughter to go with it!
I don't do threats very well, which is likely why I didn't last long in the lds world.

lulz

I really don't know why they would go through someone else's things except to say that they have a tremendous case of boundary issues.

My problem with those two (from the perspective of a RM) was that they never learned to respect the word "no". It's so simple to move on when somebody declines their message.

I think the wife had another run in with one of them; maybe 6 months prior to my explosive run in. I remember that they were inviting her to church and she told them "no". And they demanded to know why not and she told them about a BBQ for her brother's birthday. And their response was to use guilt and shame for not attending. Really?

It wasn't "Well maybe you can come next week since you already have plans." Just horribly trained young men with ZERO people skills.

Thankfully, this was about 6-7 years ago. And now we're both comfortable and HAPPY to be far removed from such a church.

There are several fool proof ways to get rid of missionaries, but these techniques are nasty and, while legal in California, would not work in some areas
1. A nurse friend who works night shift at a local hospital becomes irate when his sleep is disturbed. When he sees missionaries coming to the door he answers it in his underwear smoking a spliff of medical marijuana. He invites them in for a smoke. Invariably they leave horrified.
2. When the missionaries come, tell them you worship the horned God and follow Aleister Crowley. They leave.
3. I tell them I follow the middle path and would love to discuss the four noble truths and eightfold path. Tell them you will discuss Buddhism and they can discuss Mormonism.

Ask em if they want to come in and check out your collection of Mormon missionary name badges you've collected when a missionary goes missing....

Quirky Quark, I am impressed with the way you handled their 'visit' so kindly, not to mention your generosity with the treats.

It was also generous of you, in my opinion, in kindly taking your time to present them with what, hopefully, is 'food for thought' and an incentive to investigate the truth for themselves. Well done, QQ :)