This is a repost of something that Simon Southerton posted about a couple of years ago. It popped up in my memory again, and I wanted to post it for all the new folks. I searched around and found it on the website //RfM actually prohibits naming of the website//. There are so many of us who will recognize these actions as typical of the arrogance, bad manners, and uninspired leadership in the Mormon church. The following is about a leader who was "prompted by the spirit" to be an ass. Read and learn:


"I just had a call from a friend of mine, a former Bishop, whose last day at church was Easter Sunday. He didn’t need a motive to stop attending, because he already knew the church is a fraud. He just hadn’t picked a day to stop going. He decided on Easter Sunday that he had just attended church for the last time. This is what he witnessed in his last Sacrament Meeting.

An old lady nervously got up to talk and blue-tacked a picture appropriate to her talk to the front of the podium. She then commenced to give an excellent talk. Ten minutes into her address, a counselor in the Stake Presidency behind her who was visiting the ward stood up and removed the picture. He then took the microphone and announced that he had been prompted by the Spirit to remove the picture as it had been revealed that visual aids were not to be used in Sacrament Meetings.

My friend’s wife stood up and walked out, closely followed by her husband. They were livid, and were soon joined by a dozen other members who had also walked out. It wasn’t long before the elderly lady walked out in tears and left the building. My friends ran after her to comfort her. She told them that it had been 5 years since she had given a talk and she had been worried that she would make a mistake. I am sure they reassured her.

After the meeting my friends had words with the SP member and he defended his actions, explaining the church policy. My friends had a relative from England visiting them, who is extremely TBM. She told him to his face that in all her years in the church she had never witnessed anything as despicable as his behavior.

I am still struggling to come to terms with the depravity of it all. How can someone be so ruthlessly callous, yet think they are doing exactly what God wants done. They can I guess because they belong to a cult. With people of this caliber in a Stake Presidency the cult must be in deep trouble.

Next Sunday my friend will get up at the same time, stroll down the street and buy his first Sunday paper. After a relaxed breakfast of bacon and eggs he will sit down on his front porch and read it from cover to cover. And he will be the happiest man alive. "


NOTE: The message to take home with you today is that LDS "church policy" trumps all, even good manners and Christian compassion.

I'm not sure where to start.

How rude! I'm sure the rest of the lady's talk wasn't so excellent because her composure had been compromised by the SP's interruption.

If it was against church policy to use visual aids, why not tell people this when they are asked to speak?

If a person who doesn't know the policy uses a non-offensive visual aid, why not wait until after SM and advise them privately that they should not use such aids in the future.

If people were "feeling the spirit" from her talk and the SP's interruption caused that feeling to disappate (sp?), wouldn't the responsibility for causing the spirit to leave be on his shoulders?

They had probably stuck that nice old lady in the nursery for the past 30 years where it was encouraged to use visual aids. Besides, what about all the visual aids used in conference talks? Are they only ok if they are of high video quality?

If the church is going to require lay members to teach then they shouldn't complain about the quality of the teaching. I recall when felt boards were all the rage for teaching stories from the scriptures. The church probably had a PR firm run a study on how flannel boards talks are perceived by non-members.

in All these things....note how PETTY THEY ARE!

just a bunch of (mostly white) guys flexing their Authority...
99% with NO REASON!

still some people Support it with their time & $.

in-FUCKING-credible.

OMG they're WHITE! That's even worse.

/

Even if it was against church policy, interrupting that poor lady's talk was totally inappropriate. It seems like that SP member thought the standard rules of politeness didn't apply to him because of his position of authority.

I'm glad someone confronted him about it. He should know that isn't okay.

The sad thing is some TBMs would probably argue that the woman and church members who defended her were too prideful to accept the SP member's actions.

I suspect a conspiracy to embarrass the Church. The Holy Spirit is behind it, with Jesus and Heavenly Father as co-conspirators. I'm glad they showed everybody what this bogus church stands for.

People should start blacking out the Jesus Christ part of the church's name- they really have no right to use it.

Anagrammy

anagrammy Wrote:
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> People should start blacking out the Jesus Christ part of the church's name- they really have no right to use it.

Or they could substitute, "The Church of Joseph Smith of Latter Day Saints". I doubt that Joseph would object.

How about this for a visual aid -- during sacrament meeting, put up a large, public tally chart with Jesus's and Joseph Smith's names on it. Put one tally mark for each time one of those names is mentioned (with the concluding "inthenameofJesusChristamen" not counting.) Let's see whose church this really is.

heehee Church of Joseph Smith of Latter Day Saints heehee
tally marks heehee

That was FUNNY :)

CJSLDS

of course, Joseph Smith is more recent, so he supersedes Jesus Christ, who couldn't keep a church together and needed Joe's help.

Anagrammy

if they are to follow their own edicts and nobody can tell me that I can't receive revelation - that's between me and my conscience.

:-)

Briggy

I feel for that older lady.

I remember being lectured in the middle of sacrament meeting for taking the sacrament with the wrong hand!. I was holding a baby at the time.

I felt put out about it because I was a life-long member - so how dare she lecture me about church protocol! I must have been a born in the covenant snob!

There are so many little social faux pas to commit at church, and so many people watching to see if you get it wrong.

I cringe with embarrassment about it all now!

The older lady should have given that man a visual aid in the form of two fingers!

You should ask them where it specifies which hand you should use to take the Sacrament...

I can remember as a tbm (it makes me shudder to write that) here in England thinking how rude it was when we had taken the trouble to go to our meetinghouse on a conf weekend hoping to hear something uplifting, only to find that during the hymn singing the session was interrupted by advertising.
We had all stood to sing with the congregation in SL only to be cut off in mid song. We all sat down dejected.
How can they make a silly rule such as not showing a visual aid during a talk in SM, but I do remember we were told it would detract from the message the person was giving. However, we were encouraged to use them when giving a lesson. What's the difference? Whether its a talk or a lesson the brain washing was in full effect.

Stupid cult.

In our Stake, congregations have all been told they cannot use electronic scriptures during Sacrament Talks because 'the little children won't realize that you're reading from the scriptures...'

Let's see if I got this right: 2/3rds of their members are MIA, and they worry about iPads, visual aides, hair lenght, shirt color, footwear, ad naseum.

Hmmm.... Just how dumb are they?

70% AWOL, the best army God could muster...?

The paid clergy has typically been through a ton of training, especially in a larger denomination. They know that they are the servant and shepherd of the flock, and can be fired or removed by vote.

The LDS clergy is rewarded the leadership position for their gung-ho adherence to policy and for being full tithepayers. They also have full time jobs which distract and perplex them, and they carry that baggage with them to the pulpit. They are not as interested in caring for the flock as much as they are in maintaining order.

One of these two is a minister, while the other is a department head.

Even the most compasssionate Stake President and Bishop is still seen as being In Charge. Their word is law and they know it. People are told that when the Stake President speaks it is as if God has spoken. In Temple Recommend Interviews people are expected to perceive that the Bishop/SP is sitting in the place of the Lord and should be considered as if you are answering the Lord in this interview.

It's a power trip even for the must humble of BPs and SPs.

That fucked up stake president sure has his head stuck up his ass big time!

Hell, when this shitass rule about not using visual aids came out, a former bishop of mine (now in the stake presidency) gave a very memerable talk using a visual aid. Everyone loved it. I can still remember that talk to this day. As far as I'm aware, he never got reprimanded by the SP, who's a great guy too. I guess I am to be in a very laid back area. :-)

I remember a young convert in my old ward giving a lovely (if a little eccentric - it involved singing!) talk where he mentioned some of the religious songs he used to sing at school, and said how nice it was that so many people from all different reigions sing as part of their worship, and try to better themselves as people.
Straight afterwards a member of the bishopric stood up and said that he felt inspired to read a certain passage of scripture, and proceded to read from Joseph Smith - history about how all the other churches were an abomination (or however it phrases it - thankfully that memory has gone)
It was so awful, that I'm actually laughing to think about it, because what else can you do?

So 12 or so years ago Elder Ballard came to speak in Georgia and everyone went nuts. In the South, it's rare to have a opportunity to see one of the 12 and everyone was gushing with churchy enthusiasm. After he spoke the concluding him was "The Spirit of God" The saints were so full of "the spirit" that one by one the entire enormous congregation began to stand one by one all teary eyed and uplifted. I think you can guess where this story is going.

Elder Ballard gets up and asks everyone to sit down. Then he asks, "Do you love me? If I have to tell you something, will you still love me?" Then he went on to say that he had to stop everyone standing because in the church everything spreads like wildfire and before long everyone in the church would be standing whenever "The Spirit of God" was song and it would be total chaos. Yadda yadda yadda.

We learned our lesson that day...obedience and conformation is paramount.

Now if only we could get Monson to say that...

I feel sorry for the poor person who felt "inspired" to stand up first (unless he was only getting up to go to the toilet and everyone copied him like a flock of sheep!).

If that first person to stand had been a GA, it would have been turned into a faith promoting tale of obeying the promptings of the HG.

If a GA or other leader does something out of the ordinary, it's "inspired" and "spiritual." A lay member is not allowed the same privilege, because, afterall, he or she is "not called of god."

That is the most fucked up incident involving Ballard I've ever read on here. Just simply fucking fucked up. "Do you love me?" Is the guy on crack on something? Stupid, fucked up fellow too full of himself. What a freak.

I apologize I'm just pissed at Mormonism tonight.

When I got to the part about the woman blue-tacking her visual aid to the front of the podium, I knew she had done something wrong. I don't know why I knew that. I suppose if I had been an asshat Mormon leader, I could have called it a "revelation" but really it was just 30+ years in the Mormon church reasserting some trigger.

That poor lady. I hope a lot of people left the Church that day after they walked out.

cludgie Wrote:
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"An old lady nervously got up to talk and blue-tacked a picture appropriate to her talk to the front of the podium. She then commenced to give an excellent talk. Ten minutes into her address, a counselor in the Stake Presidency behind her who was visiting the ward stood up and removed the picture. He then took the microphone and announced that he had been prompted by the Spirit to remove the picture as it had been revealed that visual aids were not to be used in Sacrament Meetings"

Since this was Easter, I assume this was a picture of the crucification of Christ that was removed due to the SP'S "spirirtual revelation"?

Sacramemtn talks are all about "promptings by the Spirit" are they not?? So why does a SP's spirit override a members spirit??

Because the SP is the SP! He's on God's errand.
The congregation...theyz just peeps, they aren't important enough to have promptings.

For the same reason that an Elders Quorum President would not ask one of the members of his quorum (including his 1st counselor) for a blessing, but would seek one from someone higher than him, although he could ask from one from his HomeTeachers if they should both be Elders.

A Bishop would not ask his best friend for a blessing unless that friend were in the StakePresidency, although he could ask for a blessing from his father but never from his son.

Although in each of these cases they are all Priesthood holders and have authority to do so, tradition dictates that you always seek a blessing from someone over you.

As far as the SP in this case, he is in authority and his spiritual promptings are in effect for his sphere of influence (the whole stake) and as such override any idle thought of the lowly member..

Nothing new. Years ago our ward were hosts to a new member, husband and wife team. They were Italian immigrants. She played concert level piano and he was a opera level tenor. The bishop loved having them provide uplift in sm until they began performing Shubert's "Ave Maria". The bish actually stopped them in the middle and gave a long winded explanation of why their performance was unacceptable. So embare assing! For everyone except the man with the keys.

Many in the mormon church hierarchy are absolutely defenseless, arrogant, and cruel. I guess General Conference speakers get a pass on that particular policy.

Figures. Nothing new here.

Well, the Sunday before Christmas of course, who came and as part of his talk, discussed vanity and how vain and how terrible it was to get dressed up all fancy to come to church. This was in a ward full of little girls in the best Christmas dresses. I mean, what sort of hateful shit rips into little girls at Christmas time? Especially little girls who were proud and happy with their pretty new dresses on.

The priesthood produces some real sick-o's



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2011 02:36AM by CA girl.

In our ward, the form letter used to invite someone to give a talk outlines a few points, including keeping it Christ-centred, and not using visuals.

However, there is still no excuse for this man's rudeness. Do they realise that the speaker is the one doing everyone else a favour by writing and giving the talk, and not the other way around?