Not now. Not soon. Not ever. There will be no rapture. Oh, there will be heaven on earth and world peace, but humanity will be the ones making it happen. Idiotic doomsday cults just slow things down by convincing their members that all they have to do is wait for Jesus to come and fix everything. They teach against social progress, logical thinking, and unconditional love. Dogma is a condition. These fugging cults convince people not to be the positive change but to fight it in themselves and the world. Planets change from the inside out. Messiah is not part of the picture unless we all are the Messiah. And, maybe we are.

Oh shit! I'm so disappointed. Not really, but it sounded good. Totally agree with this insight.

Heathen non believer Dennis

No, you're wrong! As soon as Jesus fixes that cool anti-gravity beam of light escalator thing He used last time, He will coming back in all His glory!


He's just waiting on that one part that's back ordered from Midwest Industrial Supply....

It amazes me that any rational person would elect a president that genuinely believes that things will all work out after the Second Coming, you know, during the millenium of peace while Jesus is President of the World.

No one really believes in the Second Coming and the Tribulation except the Fundamentalist Mormons and Evangelical Christians and the hair-shirt-wearing weirdos living in the Montana mountains.

The truth is that slowly, ever so slowly, we are seeing religious people NOT believing in the tenets of their "faith" but continuing to belong for other reasons. This includes all denominations.

Just for fun, I've been asking questions and can't get by this one, "Do you believe everything your church teaches?" No one, absolutely not one of the admittedly low sample has ever said point-blank, "yes."

Even Mormons.




Kathleen

Yeah, it's frustrating.

No, he isn't.
Neither is anyone else.
If we need "saving," it's up to us.

This is something we agree on.

Even if Jesus existed, what he did was try to teach people how to save ourselves.

The answer isn't outside but internal.

"Physician, heal thyself," (Jesus' practical guide to living, Luke 4:23.)

If we can't save ourselves, we haven't got a prayer of a chance to save someone else.

I'm not even going to save Orem.

I think your last line nails it: We are the Saviors of mankind.

Look around, how many people have benefited from man-made improvements to healthcare, education, living conditions in general, clean food and water, etc. over the last 2000 years?

Gods (of any flavor) and Jesus certainly don't get in the trenches and develop vaccines, organ transplant technologies, life-saving medications, energy sources, communication technologies, etc. Fuck no. Instead, those Gods say things like, "Despair not. Be like the lilies in the field" and other banal, simpleton ideas and slogans one would expect from Bronze Age goat herders looking up at the night sky trying to figure it all out.

Waiting for Jesus (or anyone) to save you is a serious character flaw .

The scary thing is the Muslims also think Jesus is coming to save them, or more accurately, to lead them to victory against all of us infidels. This is what ISIS is trying to achieve -- the end of the world with the ultimate showdown between Jesus and the rest of us.

I know, you can't make this stuff up... except that somebody did.

Considering the results of his first attempt, I'd say he can't save shit.

If Mormonism is what it claims to be, the railroad should have showed up a few decades earlier so the saints could have hopped on the train to Zion. If you're God, what's so difficult about that?

If Mormonism is what it claims to be. Briggy NEVER should have been in charge of anything or anyone. He was evil incarnate. May he rot in a hell all his own for the misery he caused for so many. He was a bit smarter than Hitler. He kept them alive so he could use them to his benefit. Be it to pilfer their money or their body.

The Mormons should bee incredibly ashamed and embarrassed that Brigham Young has any status at all in their religion. He was an evil, vile, selfish person who took from the poor, used the women for sex, ignored his children, and heaped unspeakable misery on the people in Utah. He was a horrid man. i'm surprised someone didn't take him out years earlier. May he rot in hell.

If it will make you feel better, Briggy suffered a week long painful death from acute arsenic poisoning. It's a bad way to go, but probably no worse than the natives who accepted his bags of flour with ground up glass.

Don't be silly, Brigham Young was the patron saint of learning. A university still bears his name. He couldn't possibly have been the things you said. /s

Seriously though, in this day and age, with such easy access to historical data, why is such a tyrant still treated with such honor, by an educational institution of all places? Wouldn't it be more appropriate to name a urinal after him instead?

Hmmm. Brigham Young urinal cakes. I'd aim for that.

DANG !!!

Alway been fascinted by the whole saved/born again deal. Once while getting out of my car at motel in Great Falls, MT., I was acosted by a woman who demanded to know if I was "born again"? I replied that I'd been born correctly the first time. Confused the bejesus out of her and she scurried off down the street.

RB

Waiting for Jesus to return is like waiting for your imaginary friend to show up and do your homework for you so you don't have to.

Here's a news flash: we still have to do our homework. We still have to clean our room. We still have to raise our children. We still have to live in peace. We still have to be good custodians of our planet.

Nobody's gonna do it for us. Trying to get out of the work is simply childish.

This reminds me of a sister missionary my wife and I met in Nauvoo during the pageant this week.

She had asked me, "How are you able to live a good life on earth if you don't believe you will be rewarded in heaven?"

"Very simple," I said, "Regardless of whether there is a god or heaven, I still have to live this life in this world. I don't need an all-powerful being to tell me not to screw over my neighbor, because I know that if I expect to be treated with respect and compassion by others, I must first show that I am able to do the same for them. I don't see JC here leading me by the hand or offering me guidance, and yet I still see value being a loving husband, a good provider for my family, and an honest man. What more would you have me do in this life? I have enough to do in the here and now without having to worry about the hereafter, which you have yet to prove even exists."

Babyloncansuckit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh, there will be heaven on earth and
> world peace, but humanity will be the ones making
> it happen.

Considering the history of humanity, that is never, ever going to happen.

the temptation to tear down what you don't understand or can't have is too great to resist. You can't have a big plate glass window and not expect people to harbor the desire to throw a brick through it.

Not everyone would yield to the temptation, but only one is enough if you're the owner of that window.

For every Ed Begley, Jr. there are 1000 guys and gals buying big ass Chevy v8 pickups.

The fear and beliefs of Mormons and other Christian religions and Muslims are not based in reality, so they keep trying to make events happen or events that do happen fit into their ideology. They worry about Wars, Earthquakes, Floods, meteors...

Yet, they mock and scoff at the real things that can kill us humans; overpopulation, global warming, pandemics (Mirsa, SARS, Zika, etc...), pollution, lack of clean fresh water, etc... The world will end in a whimper, not a bang!

I am skeptical of any devoted evangelical or born-again running for office. Why? Because if Jesus is going to come down, take the believers to heaven and leave everyone else behind, why would that politician even care to fix anything on this earth?

This is why we have inaction on climate change and pollution. If Jesus is just coming back anyway, to destroy (sorry, 'cleanse') the world, why bother?