A little background info.

I had my faith crisis about 10 years ago. During the first six years I pretended and didn't tell her as I was afraid that she would freak out and leave. Four years ago, I finally told her everything and to her credit she took it in stride, at first believing it was just a phase. As I have distanced myself further from the church, her resentment has continued to increase to the point where it is intolerable. This isn't the place to air the details but I come to you to ask for advice.

When and how did you know it was time to divorce your TBM spouse?

I would suggest a separation, rather than a divorce at first. It would give each of you time to determine if you really want to call it off. (If you can afford it.)

If you are already sure you want to leave (your post indicates that you think that are not), skip the separation.

Why separation first? It gives you both time to think without being with the person who adds pressure. After three to six months people are usually interested in either working it out or going their separate ways. In other words, they are pretty sure about what they want to do.

Best wishes to you. It's traumatic and draining. One day at a time.

I would recommend a Legal Separation so that assets are inventoried. In cases I have seen where there was a physical separation but not a legal one, a lot of assets disappeared!

kenc Wrote:
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> I would suggest a separation, rather than a
> divorce at first. It would give each of you time
> to determine if you really want to call it off.
> (If you can afford it.)

"The difference between a divorce and a legal separation is that a legal separation gives a husband time to hide his money."
- Johnny Carson

Answers of course vary. Are there children involved? Were you ever truly happy? Did you have anything else in common? Are there other grievances other than the church at play? Etc..

I recommend a book called "Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay" by Mira Kirshenbaum. It provides a clear technique to sort and analyze your thoughts and feelings.

That's a wonderful book.

I've never been married, but I have some relationship guidelines that help me make decisions.

All relationships require mutual trust, mutual respect, and two-way communication. Both parties in any relationship have to be committed to working on those three things or else, generally speaking, the relationship will die on the vine. So ask yourself if you trust each other, do you respect each other, are you both listening and talking to one another? And, if any or some or all of those things are falling apart at the moment, are you both interested in committing the time and energy and effort to fix those things?

And nevermind the logical analysis, do you still love each other? Could you, would you, date each other again?

And what does she want?

You have to earn your way out of a marriage (see Dr. Phil's prescription). http://www.drphil.com/advice/5-questions-you-need-to-ask-before-you-decide-to-divorce/

Have you worked on Dr. Money's Mixed Faith Workbook?

Have you given her a copy?

If children are involved it's much more important to try to work it out. If there are no children, I'd run for the hills and try to find happiness elsewhere.

With kids, it's complicated.

Best of luck!

Many things led up to it, including violence, hate, and more, perpetrated by my now ex wife.

But the very last thing that happened is what I think finally tipped the scales....I was out within a few weeks.

Her best friend (Liz) and her husband (Gary) were in counselling. One day my wife and I were out in the back yard and she started talking about Liz and Gary. She was telling me how Liz had been telling her all about how the therapist was working with Gary to open up his issues, and help resolve some of the marriage trouble.

My wife says to me, "I'm pissed that all they are doing is talking about Gary in their sessions. I was hoping they would talk about Liz.....so she could learn about herself and be a better friend to ME!"

Liz was the best friend my wife could have had.....my wife was the one stirring up all the issues and conflict in her friendships/ relationships.

It sounds like your ex-wife may have a personality disorder. I'm glad she is now your EX! Congratulations!

One of my favorite quotes: "We stay the same until the pain of staying the same exceeds the pain of change."

I'd imagine you are probably staying together because you have young children, otherwise you wouldn't have to be asking. I did the same thing. What would divorce do to them? What quality of life would I have when my financial future would likely be in the toilet because of it? So for so long I chose the pain of staying the same.

But I realized the day I read the above quote, that it was when I knew that the pain of going through the rest of my life in the same situation was going to be worse than the hardships my kids and I would have to endure financially, that I knew it was time to divorce. Once I no longer had any belief whatsoever in the "forever families" bullshit, it put it in much more perspective. This life is all we know we have. No one knows if anything comes after or what it is. NOBODY KNOWS. There are millions of different beliefs, but all we really KNOW is what we have right here. So that's a good starting point. What do you want for the life you KNOW you have?

I look at some people my age today, who are over 50 and their kids are gone and many of them have so much more financial stability than I have, but also have marriages that would make me slit my throat if I had to be in them. Not because either of them is necessarily bad, but because they are obviously so miserable together. Thank God I divorced when I did.

You will know when the balance has tipped. If it doesn't, it's a draw. Or maybe just committing to it until the kids are grown at least gives you a goal. If the balance has already tipped, it's probably time.

Marriage sucks for most people. If you're asking the question... its time. If you have kids, make sure you do your best to protect your rights with them. Looking back on your relationship... would you marry her in the fist place knowing what you know now?

Welcome to the majority.

Life is too short to waste a day of it. Your happiness is vastly more important than hers. Shes punishing you for your effort to be happy. Dump her.

You: "What can I do to make our marriage work?"

Her: "Go back to church; pray for your testimony to be restored! Be the priesthood leader and god-in-embryo that I married!!"

You: "...

Have you two had a "state-of-the-relationship" talk recently? Sounds like it's overdue. Each partner's perception of what's going on with the other person can be very different than reality. Each has to be willing to ask the tough questions and listen/believe to what the partner says.
Bringing issues out in the open, getting marriage counseling, and negotiating the relationship all things that need to happen prior to making a decision to split. Once all that happens, the answer will probably be much clearer to both of you.

It's easy to fantasize about divorce and being single while in a marriage that's not working well. Even if you jointly decide the marriage is over, it's still a painful, hard process, you will always have regrets, and the transition period is awful in so many ways. You will be emotional roadkill long after you think you're "over it." Things eventually do get better, but bailing out is rarely the panacea people think it is.

After being seperated for 18 months it became more than obvious that she wasn't interested in working together to save our marriage. It was all on me, I was the evil apostate persecuting her with my very existence.

When I realized she loved Mormon Co. more than me, it was time to divorce. Happy ever since!!

Good for you! I'm glad you got out! She can have the cult.

Eight months into my temple marriage my bride came to me and said she had made a mistake marrying me. She said that she had married too young, should have graduated from college first, I had robbed her of her "college experience", that she should have married someone more "spiritual", and that she should have married a returned missionary. All this from someone who asked ME to marry HER.

We went and spoke to our Bishop. He counseled us that "all young married couples have a rough time at first". I should have left her then but I was too young, dumb, and scared. We stayed together but from that point on grew apart.

Years later I shifted into "stay together for the kids" mode. That was a horrible mistake. I felt like I was being eaten alive from the inside out. My whole demeanor changed and I was dark and withdrawn. I remember coming home late from work, seeing her asleep in bed, and thinking, "Why can't you just die? Life would be so much easier if you were dead."

One day we got into a fight (rare because we hardly spoke to each other). She yelled at me, "Nobody else would put up with your crap!!" At that point the lightbulb went on in my head and I thought, "You know what...I think I will take my chances."

After 19 years I ejected from a shitty marriage. The generous, happy, caring, loving Mr. Happy returned. My staff at work didn't recognize my behavior and felt like they had a new boss. I also discovered that there was no shortage of people who were willing to "put up with my crap".

Been there, done that. I once felt like I had poison in my veins. I was so unhappy with my (now)ex-wife. I used to sort of fantasize about her dying. How terrible is that? One day I realized that if my life's happiness depends on someone dying...that is not a good plan.

I see a lot of people in that boat. I hope that they come up with a different plan for themselves.

I knew divorce was inevitable because I could tell he had “checked out” of the marriage about a year before we split. My children and I were not an integral part of his life and our needs were no longer his concern. He is very selfish and it came down to “his way or the highway”. He felt we were the cause of his frustration and a burden to him. He wanted to live his life his own way but because we had small children neglecting them wasn’t an option for me.

Your wife wants you to do something that is against your conscience and integrity - to swear allegiance to LDS, Inc. Have you told her you’re the same, if not a better husband than before? You now have more quality time to be with her and do things together. You are still the good man she married with all of the qualities she loves about you.

She’s very fearful and angry and as other posters have said, it feels like she married a corporation and not you. People can be so stubborn and will risk losing everything for what they believe is right and will fight to the death so-to-speak without taking a hard look with what she could lose. If you can, lay it out for her what she is at risk losing and if you feel you can say it, tell her you don’t want to lose her and the life you have built together. You didn’t say if you have children – that is probably the most difficult part.

Can you see yourself moving forward without her? Is separation possible? What will YOU lose/gain?

I like icedtea’s response and is right about divorce may not be the solution we dream it will be.

Your happiness is as important as hers – I wish you the best and keep us posted. There are some great people on this board who give support and sound advice.

Many tbm wifes are actually married to the church and not their husband's. They love lds inc not their husband which is why so many of them are so quick to divorce and run when thier spouse house has doubts about the church. They want the penishood powers at home.

The fact that you are asking the question should give you at least some idea as to the state of your marriage. Of course, everyone's situation is so different and very individual that one person's knowing it was their time to divorce will not be another's. So. some posters could give you an answer that pertained to their situation but it would/should have no bearing on your personal situation.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002JPGQ34/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

I did. It became clear after I read it that I should get out. I did. I've had no regrets.

Simple formula:

No. of marriages + 7.3 = No. of reasons to divorce

I'm currently (happily) married. I'm also realistic, and aware of my history:

* One marriage ended when my wife left me for a woman.
* Another marriage ended when I realized one day that I had not had sex in 13 years.

And then there are those relationships that lacked the paperwork but resembled marriages in all other aspects:

* One such relationship ended when my girlfriend got drunk and started chasing me around the house holding a meat cleaver.
* Another such relationship ended when my girlfriend ran away and joined the circus.

I could go on. You catch the drift: every union is personal and specific to the participants. Only they know when and why it's time to say "That's all, folks!"

And Paul Simon has some sound advice about how to make one's exit:

You just slip out the back, Jack
Make a new plan, Stan
You don't need to be coy, Roy
Just get yourself free
Hop on the bus, Gus
You don't need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee
And get yourself free...

only you know when your possibilities in a post-divorce situation is looking good enough that you are willing to go through the crap required to get there. For some, that takes longer than others. for som ppl it will not happen. ever.

finally i bit the bullet and pursued my dream. turns out, you can be happy very happy without that spouse.

after the legal stuff ends then give yourself two years to start feeling like you can evaluate whether you chose the right path

Found my wife's journal laying open on the bed ( on purpose)

She was in the shower and left it open for me to read. In large writing it read. ( I kept a copy)

" I just returned from the Bishops office for my temple interview and he said my marriage needed to end."

(She wrote) "I Should have never married XXX if he wasn't going to be active!!"

----------------------------------------------------
Summary..we divorced

All this after forty years of marriage and Children.

Churchco LDS wins again!

now that we divorced I can say I am a much much happier man..

I would have not believed that 3 years ago. Now I don't have to hide my contempt for the Church anymore.
People ask me what ended our marriage and I tell them direct
she was advised by her bishop.

I call it The unattainable expectation of Mormonism

I once had some neighbors that had a marriage that sounds very much like yours was. I felt so sorry for that guy. His wife would get anyone she could find to try and humiliate him into going back into the church. He was always very quiet, but I could tell he was miserable.

I hope you're that guy, and finally got out of that miserable marriage. Nobody should have to live like that.

She said "I want a divorce". Pretty much knew it was time :)

The last ten years were pretty nasty. He didn't love me, but he adored my income. I had a good job and he did not want to say good-bye to my salary.

However, when his girlfriend moved in with us ("just until she gets another job") I decided that was enough. I moved out. She was an alcoholic who couldn't keep a job to save her life, but they are still together, so I guess he finally found somebody who could stand him.

BTW, she moved in with us in 1986 and never moved out. . .

Funny you're contemplating divorce when you were never married.

It never was about you. She needed you for her church status, and for your paycheck, or whatever.

As others said, she is married to the church.

Now many people do this subconsciously, and may not understand what they are doing. I would lay it out for her and see how she responds. Most likely nothing will change, as she is like an alcoholic, completely dependent on the church (booze) for her survival.

For me, it was very clear.

One day I realized that I didn't want to live another day in that marriage. I'd had enough.

It wasn't about who was getting what, it wasn't about money, I knew I could do whatever I had to do to be ok.

If i'd stayed in the marriage it wouldn't have been good. It would have been a life of hell for me and my kids.

Leaving wasn't easy, but it was better than staying.

Perhaps, like me and many other former Mormons, you have lied to yourself--and believed the lies and myths that Mormons tell about marriages--that you are confused. What do you REALLY want? How do you REALLY feel. Mormonism can cause you to lose touch with your self. The Mormon culture is based on denial and skewed thinking.

Step back for a few days. Go out into nature, fishing, camping, for a few long drives--BY YOURSELF--and let your mind relax. Don't force a decision. Meditate, or do whatever you like to do to clear your mind.

Then, ask yourself some simple questions, such as other posters have suggested: "Would I marry this person today? Would I even date her?" I'm not talking about looks, but personality, disposition (happy or grouchy), outlook on life (positive or negative).

Does your wife have a loving heart? Is she critical of you? News flash to Mormons: There is such a thing as "unconditional love", and this is common with non-Mormons. It is not bad, but good. Unconditional love is the Christ-like ideal to which most humans aspire! A parent's love for a child. The love between husband and wife. Unconditional acceptance--warts and all. Putting the loved one in the Number One position, ahead of all else. I have a sinking feeling that your wife is not capable of such love. My TBM ex-husband could not love anyone. (He is a narcissist), including me, and including our children. He ended up completely abandoning us.

It is not YOU! I'm at least 99 percent sure that your wife and her cult are the problem.

If you have children, can you put them first? Do you feel that they need help dealing with the cult and all the craziness that surrounds them? Would you like to rescue them? Do you want to save yourself?

What if divorce were perfectly acceptable, as it is in most cultures in America (50 percent of marriages end in divorce. The average marriage lasts 6 years.) and no one would shun you or give you a hard time about divorce. Would you do it if it were easier? If she were to divorce you first, would you be relieved?

When is it time to divorce...? Do you wish you had divorced her years ago, when you knew all those nice single women? Do you feel you have waited too long? If you wish you had divorced her at some moment in the past--then divorce her right now. Don't wait for more time and unhappiness to build.

These are all personal, one-of-a-kind questions, with a one-of-a-kind answers, individually tailored to YOU.

Just because a divorce worked for me, and worked for my children, doesn't mean that it will work for you.

It might help with your decision to understand that divorce is not bad! The Mormon brainwashing has buried you in that lie. In face, in YW, we were taught that failure in marriage was the ultimate failure--second only to failure to be a good Mormon. I divorced my first husband, who beat me, and it was a good thing I did, because eventually I was able to marry again and have children.

If you were to divorce your wife today, would you wish you had done it sooner? Answer these question honestly!