Had the displeasure of having the ward leaders stop by and introduce themselves. Along with me trying to clue them in on my situation how I no longer believe but support my wife in her belief. It then turned into a preaching the horrible apostate moment. I asked them if they had read the essays, of course not.

I had to bite my tongue when the bishop said that he knew. There was so much equating belief with knowing I wanted to barf. I used to believe that crap too. I also got a lot of no true Scotsman fallacies. Only real intent, through the proper channel can you receive truth.

In closing I asked them if they could abide by the 11th article of faith, because I could not in good conscience believe in their church. I would allow them the same right. I also said my number is on LDS tools please contact me next time they would be coming over.

It depends on how much empahsis they put on the word "know" and whether they add a "with every fiber of my being" or "beyond a shadow of a doubt" as to whether they really know or not.

What's that you say? They don't really "know" anything, they only have a belief like any Tom, Dick or Harry has in his own religion? Well, then, you didn't listen good enough. They KNOW the church is true. That's different then they know the church is true.

"I know the church is true."

"No, you don't -- you believe it. That's not the same as knowing."

"No, I KNOW it."

"No, you don't. Either you don't understand what words mean, or you're dishonest. Which is it?"

"Evil apostate!"

That's about how things go when I call them on their bullshit. Oh, well. Biting your tongue, with your wife still in, seems like the better part of valor, sadly. Hang in there.

It'd be easier if they would just say, "I am convinced that it is true."

The level of conviction, however, is not a determining factor in establishing fact, however.

MarkJ Wrote:
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> It'd be easier if they would just say, "I am
> convinced that it is true."

Sure, it would. That doesn't sound nearly as emotionally-heart-tugging, though. And it doesn't fuel the near-total commitment mormonism requires; who on earth would commit your whole life and everything you own to the church on a rational assessment of probability? ;-)

> The level of conviction, however, is not a
> determining factor in establishing fact, however.

Yep. Mormons (and those of other religions, often to a lesser degree) seem to think "I really, really, REALLY believe this" is the same as "I know this." Or that's what they've been told to say, anyway.

"The level of conviction, however, is not a determining factor in establishing fact, however."

Edit - Forgot no political posts :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2016 04:41PM by northaltexmormon.

Exactly! I understood the difference when I was a TBM. But are there many like this that can't distinguish the difference?

I suppose that when getting a feeling is equated with a truth detector it may muddy the waters of what is fact and what isn't.

I'm guessing that in your situation, you did not feel comfortable in just asking them to leave when they got obnoxious (or never letting them in to begin with).

Supporting your wife should not entail subjecting yourself to insults and condescending behavior. If that is the case, then you get to support her while she doesn't support you. That would be a deal breaker for me.

I don't feel comfortable in offering too many details about the encounter. I will say that I did have my home and sanctuary taken care of.

I know that Santa travels the world in one night leaving presents for all the good little girls and boys.


P.S. Santa is also Joseph Smith. I know it, with every fiber of my being.

What essays are you talking about? I am new convert five years my husband and I. The only one's in our families and are now just finding out the truth. I would like to read these essays. I am scared. The Bishop was told I have read the CES Letters to the Director by the gal at Church that told me about them and is now telling me I need to talk to the Bishop if I have any questions about it? I just found out my Church and faith is a lie! I hate liars! I don't want to talk to the Bishop. I am scared of what they are going to do. We both hold callings I can no longer stomach to teach and haven't been.
I am terrified of the apostate thing, and I love many of my brothers and sisters and don't want to loose them? I am sorry this is the first time I have said anything anywhere.

And ya? What is it about people in the Church alwaysjust stopping by? It's rude and I have never liked it.

This includes all the links to lds.org essays. No author names attributed to them and they aren't dated either.
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1180178

The church's idea of trying to be transparent... without actually being transparent. I felt that it was something that they could point to when people came with questions. That way they could say, "see we have answers". (now don't actually read into these essays or study the primary resources. That leads to apostasy.)

You don't owe the bishop an explanation. Just stop going. If you feel you must tell him that you would like to be released, do so. You don't have to give him a reason for that either.
You don't owe the church anything.

rachael Wrote:
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> I am terrified of the apostate thing, and I love
> many of my brothers and sisters and don't want to
> loose them? I am sorry this is the first time I
> have said anything anywhere.
>
Hi Rachael, I'd suggest you get a little braver and start your own thread. Use the "New Post" option. I'm only saying that as nobody reads scaredhusband's posts and you wont get as much support and hugs as if you were posting in a new thread.

We are here for you, we know how scary it can be, and how gut wrenching it is to find out that the church is a great big lie.

Darren Steers Wrote:
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nobody reads scaredhusband's posts

That stings a little bit. :) I do appreciate you trying to help rachael get more responses.

scaredhusband Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Darren Steers Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> nobody reads scaredhusband's posts
>
> That stings a little bit. :) I do appreciate you
> trying to help rachael get more responses.

'twas sarcasm ;)

>
> And ya? What is it about people in the Church always
> just stopping by? It's rude and I have never liked it.
>

That's because you were raised (properly) with boundaries. To those of us who grew up in the church, it is perfectly natural that ward members will stop by any damn time they think it's necessary or appropriate.

We have one board member, a single mother at the time, who had priesthood adults come into her home to drag her boy to church.

It's always for our own good, you know...

Keep reading, keep studying. Mormonism is a veeerrrryyyy ssslllooowwwlllyyy paced Ponzi scheme in which they are trying to get all the world's money, 10% at a time.

They are not even a very successful religion, unless you only read their version of things.

rachael Wrote:
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> I don't want to talk to the Bishop.

Then don't talk to the bishop, Rachel. There is no legal requirement that you do so.

> I am scared of what they are going to do.

The most likely scenario is that church leaders will do nothing as long as you are not trying to take active LDS members away from the church.

> We both hold callings I can no longer stomach to teach and haven't been.

Tell the bishop that you are resigning from your callings "for personal reasons." You need not give any other explanation.

> I am terrified of the apostate thing...

Why? As a convert you were NOT a Mormon long before you joined the church. You know that you can survive and do well without the Mormon church.

> I love many of my brothers and sisters and don't want to loose them

*Genuine* friends will not care about your personal religious beliefs, now will they? Do you really want fake friends?

>What is it about people in the Church alwaysjust stopping by? It's rude and I have never liked it.

Many people here would agree with you.

Let them know that "God Himself" has testified to you that TSCC is false!