"Now I know not to join groups that tell me to 'just have faith,' and that want my money."

A valuable lesson. :)

Faith and money. I actually think a psychic is a better bet than a bishop. At least the psychic's livelihood depends upon creating faith beneficial to you. They just don't have the added bonus of religious backing of offering you self-righteousness in return. They just make you promises from the unseen forces of The Universe.

I get fodder for horror stories. That's about it.

The fodder I get from Mormonism the closer to signs that I was well to leave.

I'm going to be fodder in Heaven in the minds of Mormons.

Avoid snake oil salesmen
Edit: If it's too good to be true that's because it probably is.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2016 10:34PM by immutablekorihor.

Well, with their Every Member a Toilet Scrubber program, you must have learned something about cleaning communal bathrooms.

I left before the mandatory cleaning calling was introduced.

Elder Berry, like the majority of us you are a good person. Not in the Mormon sense of being "good." Rather, you a real man who makes mistakes, loves his family, farts several times a day, and wants to live a gracious life. (No arguments, I read your posts!)

So, my friend, define your life and live it! I don't find much in Mormonism anymore to admire to I look to other influences. I'm reading several classics of the early environmentalist movement and am working to help save our planet.

In my younger years with my Nevermo, but extremely right-wing conservative mother, I would have thought of environmentalists as communists. It's not an original ideal! In reading about Silent Spring's Rachel Carson, I noted a quote from Ezra Taft Benson where he saw her as female, attractive, and single; therefore, she was a Communist!

Keep posting Elder!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2016 10:59PM by BYU Boner.

BYU Boner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> loves his family, farts several times a day,

You had me at farts!

> So, my friend, define your life and live it! I
> don't find much in Mormonism anymore to admire to
> I look to other influences. I'm reading several
> classics of the early environmentalist movement
> and am working to help save our planet.

What are some of these classics?

I was influenced by this book.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Naked_Ape

Probably out of date but a fun read.

> In my younger years with my Nevermo, but extremely
> right-wing conservative mother, I would have
> thought of environmentalists as communists. It's
> not an original ideal! In reading about Silent
> Spring's Rachel Carson, I noted a quote from Ezra
> Taft Benson where he saw her as female,
> attractive, and single; therefore, she was a
> Communist!

The Communists I've known haven't been very good looking.

So what did your mother think of Mormonism?

My parents told me I had joined a cult. But that statement was hurled in alcoholic rage with physical objects being thrown at me. All it did was reinforce my parents' depravity in my eyes (remember I was 18, not the most grown up time!). My Mom's heroes were William F Buckley and Barry Goldwater, both of whom I've met.

Now to the books--Cadillac Desert by Marc Reisner--if you live in the West, this is a must read. I couldn't put it down. It's all about water and dam building. Ironically, the narrative begins with him flying over SLC and noticing the oasis of Utah irrigation. You'll be amazed at how much power Mormons had in the Bureau of Reclamation.

The Monkey Wrench Gang and Desert Solitaire by Edward Abbey. Desert Solitaire is eloquent and a timeless love story between Abbey and the Four Corners region. Reviews on Amazon have noted that some parts of it are dated and bigoted by today's standards (such as Abbey's views on Navajo peoples). But these passages are few and reflect the culture of the times.

Monkey Wrench Gang is a fantasy about three misfits attacking symbols of the new West by engaging in good old fashioned vigilantism. Some feel that Abbey's work inspired ecoterrorism (something he denied). The characters in MWG are funny and memorable. My favorite is Seldom Seen Smith--a Mormon with Three wives in three different towns. Abbey has an acute understanding of Mormon culture and doctrine.

Finally, Silent Spring by Rachel Carson. Carson advocated for an ecological view (holistic) of what mass use of insecticides and herbicides were dong to the environment. This book was light years ahead of its time. You can google her name and find the Benson quote about her being a communist. You will also read how several scientists and even Michael Chriton has said she's responsible for millions of children's deaths by getting governments to ban DDT. Apparently, these critics never read the book, because Carson did not advocate banning DDT, she supported its limited use after careful study of potential hazards. What Carson was opposed to was mass, uneducated, spraying (particularly by the government) without concern for long-term health or ecological consequences.

Best wishes Elder,band fart away! Brother Boner.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2016 02:18PM by BYU Boner.

Interesting books. The earth is God's footstool and his worshipers prefer to destroy it while licking God's boots.

Doctrine & Covenants 9:8.5
"But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind;"
(the burning the bosom, they can keep.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2016 10:59PM by idleswell.

For the first nearly two decades of my life I lived in the "mission field." Until high school, I was the only Mormon in my school. There were times that it was hard...declining Sunday birthday invitations, defending the church's bizarre practices, saying over and over that I only had one mom.

But I learned that even though I was different than the majority of the group, I was always ok in the end.

The last two decades of my life I've lived in Utah. For awhile I was one of the group and things felt easy. When I decided to leave the church, I worried what it would be like to be different than the majority.

I realized that I already knew what it felt like to be different than the group. Making myself different than the group by leaving the church might be hard or feel uncomfortable at times, but in the end I would be ok.

So I guess that's something that I may not have learned if I hadn't been Mormon.

I was a frequent youth speaker, probably because I was naturally comfortable in front of an audience. I can't think of another venue where I would have gained quite as much experience.

Not sure whether this was because of growing up in a Mormon community or just the times it was, but "A man's word is his honor," is something we were drilled as Mormons in my childhood and youth.

Self control?



Or, as a wise man once said: "If you do it until your dick hurts, then you know you're doing it too much."

We Learn through both positive and negative examples. The key is to pay attention to what is going on around you.

And the wolves among the sheep. The Mormon sharks among the Mormon fishes.

Two big lessons from Mormonism:

(1) If it takes a visit from both God the Eternal Father and His Son Jesus Christ to forgive you of your sins, then you've been a really bad boy. You're also likely to do lots of bad things in the future.

(2) If you ever see God, or Jesus, or even an angel, don't tell anyone else. You'll look like a fool, and in the process of overcompensating you may find yourself jumping out of a jailhouse window.

I think my life in Mormonism hurt me far more than it helped me.

It did provide me with a few good friends who remain friends to this day. Some have left the church also. Some remain steadfastly committed to it but have accepted my leaving without the judgmental attitudes so common among so many Mormons. I am happy to still have them in my life.

My mission was a horrible experience. But I did get to learn another language and gained an entirely new perspective on the world and life outside of my sheltered white-and-delightsome upbringing. It greatly broadened my horizons and was probably the catalyst that eventually led me out of the church two decades later. It just made me think about things much differently than I probably would have otherwise.

There are the trite messages of Mormonism that still resonate with me to this day..."put your shoulder to the wheel", "do what is right, let the consequence follow", "do unto others", all of that.

It taught me a very painful and hard-learned lesson in always trusting myself above others and especially above some self-proclaimed "authority".

It taught me to always make decisions based on sound judgement and evidence rather than wishful thinking and "feelings".

And not to trust false promises from fancy suits.