About 15 years ago, I was talking to my sister. Somehow or another in the conversation she said, "I can't believe it, but some people are saying that Joseph Smith had more than one wife.

I said, "Well, I have a book here---it was written by two active mormon women (it WAS at the time, I think) who talk about that. Would you like to borrow it?"

She took it and looked it over for a minute or two and then said, "Oh, I'd better not. XXXXX (husband) would be so upset if I had anything that said anything bad about Joseph Smith."

So she put the book on the table before she left.

Praise to the man who fucked children and other men's wives.

The Boner wrote:

If my memory serves correctly, I remember a one-woman show based on the life of Emma Smith sometime during the 1970s at BYU. It didn't go into much detail about polygamous wives and probably was very toned down, but much ahead of its time. The closing line was something to the effect of, "therefore, gentle reader, do not judge me too harshly." Does this ring any bells out there? Boner.

==================

Late 70s, BYU, makes me think of the wonderful student actress Barta Heiner. She later joiner their faculty. That's all I've got, Boner.

wondercat

My sister was one of the authors. She was in the Stake RS Presidency when she started the research for the book. By the time it was published, she was mostly inactive, but still a member. If you recall, Dallin Oaks and Neal Maxwell went after the authors banning them from speaking in any church-sponsored meetings, activities, or firesides. They were insensed that two women members would publish such disparaging information about Joseph Smith.

Now, the church openly admits via its essays everything (mostly) that was published in Mormon Enigma. I wonder when the apology will be coming. Val (my sister) passed away unexpectedly in 2006. Hardly a day goes by that I'm not reminded of her.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2016 03:54PM by my2cents.

"My sister was one of the authors."

Didn't you post about that a few months ago?

If you recall, when "Mormon Enigma" was in production in the mid-'80s, the "Ensign" magazine carried a blurb about it in the "News of the church" section, praising the authors and their research. I still have that "Ensign" in my attic.

However, if you search lds.org for the words "Valleen Avery Linda King," it returns 0 results. Meaning, they have deleted the positive blurb from their website. I did find one reference on the "Mormon newsroom" site:

[12] Linda King Newell and Valeen Tippetts Avery, Mormon Enigma: Emma Hale Smith, 107;

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/transcript-elder-sister-renlund-2016-byu-womens-conference

It's kinda funny that the church deleted any mention of Valeen and Linda from their official magazine, but their book is cited on another church-owned website.

This isn't the only instance of the church doing this: a 1980 "Ensign" carried articles about the newly-discovered historical documents which later turned out to be Mark Hofmann forgeries. One of the articles, telling how the documents were found, was written by Hofmann himself. However, if you search for "Mark Hofmann" under lds.org, you cannot find that 1980 article. You can find Dallin Oaks' 1987 "spin-doctoring" article about the Hofmann incident, but not the article which was written by Hofmann himself.

Yes I've posted on here several times when Mormon Enigma pops up. Sometimes there has been misinformation, but mostly I would hope the readers of the forum find some of the background information interesting, coming from someone close to the author.

Yes, he was certainly all of those other things. As to the disappearance of citations on church websites, that does not surprise me at all. The church has had a somewhat "love - hate" relationship with Mormon Enigma. The book was initially on the shelves at Deseret Book, it was later removed from shelves to the back room but could still be purchased if you asked, then later only by special order.

Mormon Enigma won the Evans Biography Award the year that it was published. The award was administered by BYU and its history department. I remember attending that awards ceremony where Jeffery Holland presented the authors with the award. At the same time, Oaks and Maxwell were doing their best to put down the authors. Not long after, the Evans family moved the endowment and administration of the award to Utah State University. The Evans family was not happy with the perceived bias BYU showed in their selection process after Mormon Enigma. It became mostly "faith promoting", overlooking biographies that were much more scholarly.

BYU then funded (most likely via an apologetic organization such as the Maxwell Institute) a position in the history department for a grad student to do independent research on every citation listed in Mormon Enigma. The sole purpose was an attempt to uncover errors, misrepresentations, or misquotes. It was a further attempt to discredit both the authors and the book. Nothing was ever found.

Val received a phone call during this same time period at her office at NAU. The receptionist asked her if she wanted to take a call from Paul H Dunn in Salt Lake City. Not one to shy away from controversy, she took his call. He proceeded to tell her that he had just finished her book and wanted to tell her it was the best historical account of Emma and Joseph that he had ever read. Dunn was a member of the 1st Quorum of Seventy,and a GA. He had his own problems later on, of course. So 2 GA's were bashing her, while another lauded her work.

The Oaks/Maxwell dust up had the opposite effect than what they intended. Books sales skyrocketed after the ban became public and the book went into a second printing far earlier than planned by the publisher.

Val went on to write "From Mission to Madness", the biography of Joseph and Emma's youngest son, David, born after Joseph was killed. It also won the Evans Biography when it was published, but was much less noticed from the Church point of view - it dealt with the Emma and family who chose not to follow Brigham Young west to Utah.

As Paul Harvey used to say, "The rest of the story..."

Your sister being punished for honesty has been unfortunately common. Honesty is rather fluid in Mormonism. To a GA, honesty can be detrimental and is often avoided. Many members must feign belief to keep their family together. How many lie to get their temple recommend?

It feels so freeing to have honest inquiry and take it to logical conclusions instead of spin. Thank you for more background on your sister.

Thank you Eric. Even though Val was what I would call a super TBM back in the mid 1980's, her goal in writing Mormon Enigma was to tell the true story no matter where that led.

Certainly, her own research caused the cracks in her Mormon faith and I know it was a struggle for her to manage the coognitive dissonance that she was going through. In the end, truth can withstand scrutiny, but she found no truth to Joseph Smith's claims as a prophet of the restoration. What she found, especially during the Nauvoo period, was a community of secrets, lies, and a dark underbelly of sexual depavity in the name of God with Joseph right at the center of it.

For anyone who is interested in her research, her papers and research material were donated to the Special Collections section of the Utah State University library system, with the stipulation that they are open to research by any interested person.

"Even though Val was what I would call a super TBM back in the mid 1980's, her goal in writing Mormon Enigma was to tell the true story no matter where that led."

Yep, Fawn Brodie had the same mission in the 1940s when she wrote "No Man Knows My History." And Brodie got a half century of criticisms and personal attacks from Mopologists for her trouble. But nowadays, more TBMs are accepting of both Brodie and Mormon Enigma.

The authors of both works searched for the truth, they researched the same historical documents, and they arrived at the same conclusions. That's what honest researchers are supposed to do. But the conclusions don't make Joseph Smith or Mormonism look good.

It was pretty brave what those two women did at the time.
They took a lot of abuse from the leaders.

I'm sorry about that. And isn't it ironic that the church admits it all now, after excoriating them.

How can people who have lived through that see what's happening and stay in the church. I just don't understand it!

I can understand how people could be attracted to the church right now and join up, believing the missionaries' tales and not knowing anything of the history.

I can understand how people in great stress or sorrow with the loss of a loved one for instance, could find some comfort in the hope of a hereafter.

I can understand how a person with limited intellectual abilities could feel friendship in a church with people who are friendly to him/her.

I can even understand how a person who is a social mormon--one who enjoys the people in his neighborhood who attend meetings in the same building, one who works with the youth or enjoys the music, one who seldom if ever, goes to the temple, one who has hardly read any of the scriptures except for when they are included in the lesson manual they are teaching from, one who really doesn't take the church seriously, could enjoy the church as a social network.

But I cannot, for the life of me, understand how any intelligent person who's studied church history and scriptures and has an ounce of curiosity or even a tiny bit of integrity, STAY IN THIS CHURCH, knowing all they know and all that the church has admitted to this past year.

I just cannot understand it!

When you do, you'll also understand why some people have season tickets for the Cubbies.

Careful. That is my favorite pro baseball team. Nothing like being on first base side of Wrigley and Lake Michigan cool breeze blowing in....Santo, Banks, Sandberg, Sutcliffe, Dawson..what memories

Gatorman

Don't take the wrong way! I am a fan of chasing dreams! Sometimes "logically" is not the best way to live one's life.

Anyone who loves golf knows this.

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When you do, you'll also understand why some
> people have season tickets for the Cubbies.
=============================
HEY!

BAD DOG!

Love,
Cubs Fan

She tried for some time before the book was published to just be a "back pew" Mormon, but that didn't work for her either. She already had such a dim view of Joseph Smith. After all of the research she did on he and Emma, she held the opinion that Joseph was just a conniving sexual predator using his religion as a cover for his deviant desires.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2016 06:18PM by my2cents.

"After all of the research she did on he and Emma, she held the opinion that Joseph was just a conniving sexual predator using his religion as a cover for his deviant desires."

I came to that conclusion as well after just a few months of study 18 years ago. However, I'd add that Smith was more than just a sexual predator---he also wanted power and money. He wanted to be wealthy without having to do honest work. He was a narcissist, and as his power and wealth grew, he became a megalomaniac, and that's what got him killed.

Both authors eventually left the church based both on the information they uncovered and their treatment by high ranking church authorities whose only goal was to suppress and discredit.

I've heard from many people over the years that Mormon Enigma was the catalyst for their own departure from the church. Like you, what I can't explain are those who have read it, and other accurate historical works, yet chose to stay.

"Like you, what I can't explain are those who have read it, and other accurate historical works, yet chose to stay."

Having read thousands of posts from people on this BB, and in my dealing with Mopologists as well as my Mormon relatives, I believe that most people who remain Mormon despite the church's fraudulent origins and dubious history do so because Mormonism is their "tribe" or culture. I've heard numerous Mormons say that they don't believe the Joseph Smith story etc., but they stay in it either because they believe that the church is a "safe" social circle, or because they don't think there's anything better out there to be involved in, so why leave?

I'm different. My family could have stayed in the church, and I would have saved myself 18 years of criticism and condemnation from my Mormon relatives. But I couldn't force myself to keep going to church week after week, year after year, and hear those same "faith-promoting" lies told about the church's origins and history---along with the constant pressure to pay tithing, attend the temple, fulfill church jobs, etc. My personal sense of integrity outweighed any social benefits the church gave me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2016 09:47PM by randyj.

That was my story also, Randyj. Val never pressured me to leave. I remained active/semi-active for about 10 tears after ME was published, for all the reasons you succinctly stated.

During that period, Val told me that if I had any questions or concerns about church history or doctrine, she wouldn't answer my questions, but she would provide all the source material she knew of so that I could find my own answers. I knew where it was heading, but it took awhile before I finally understood that my own personal integrity could no longer be compromised to fables created by charlatans. It cost a marriage in the end, but I am now the captain of my soul.

Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the Pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds and shall find me unafraid.
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

by William Ernest Henley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2016 10:32PM by my2cents.

LDS are adamant that they don't practice polygamy.

But they would if they could, they believe it will be practiced in heaven, and they have no remorse that it was once practiced by LDS leaders.

The Church accepts serial adultery, serial statutory rape, unrighteous dominion, lying to cover up evil, fraud, theft and murder if the perpetrator is the prophet. What a twisted, twisted cult.

dimmesdale expresses my sentiments, exactly.

If my memory serves correctly, I remember a one-woman show based on the life of Emma Smith sometime during the 1970s at BYU. It didn't go into much detail about polygamous wives and probably was very toned down, but much ahead of its time. The closing line was something to the effect of, "therefore, gentle reader, do not judge me too harshly." Does this ring any bells out there? Bner.

I don't know anything about a one-woman show, but there was a book published by that name:

https://www.amazon.com/Judge-Dear-Reader-Persecution-Falsehoods/dp/B0018AIWZQ

Val & Linda, Fawn B, Juanita Brooks; all women;

I think I might be onto something here... (thinking cap ON)

dimmesdale Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
"and then said, "Oh, I'd better not. XXXXX (husband) would be so upset if I had anything that said anything bad about Joseph Smith.""


So is she not allowed on LDS.org?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2016 08:16AM by amongthetombstones.

Excellent thread/post. Thanks, that is all.

Is this book available for Kindle?

I just checked Amazon and it is not available in Kindle format. If you are in the SLC area I can give you one, I have a few extras.

Thank you so much, My2, but I'm in the midwest.

Here is my email address. Drop me a message. Atipp@comcast.net

Because religion cannot stand the kind of investigation shown on tv crime shows on multiple channels every day, a new rationalization has risen for pretending to know (beyond a shadow of a doubt) what you cant' possibly know:

"It's true for me."

Once belief has been detached from faith, it is the end of the conversation. One has divorced truth from action and therein lies the problem.

Those who leave any church upon discovering the claims are unsupported by evidence, or that evidence is discovered to the contrary, are always surprised at the number of people who don't give a shit about what's factual.

"It's all I can do to worry about my own salvation."

So you end up with a deliberately unexamined life--which, no surprise, is not worth living. Pass the pills.


Kathleen