Just got a call from one of my "old" friends, the current Stake President. I haven't seen him in 15 years. We started talking and he couldn't believe I had left the church (I was once a Bishop). He asked, what happened? I said I had a few bad experiences in the church that made me wonder. It led me to research the church in great detail. That research led me to the conclusion that the church was false and a giant fraud. He then asked me, to please come back. I said, how I could I, given what I know and what I believe. He said, give it another chance. I know you were offended. I said, yes, but that has nothing to do with me leaving--rather, it is my research of JS, BY, polygamy, etc. That is what caused me to leave--not because I was offended or anything else. It is false. He said again, I wish you would come back--we need you. I DON'T THINK HE EVER UNDERSTOOD WHAT I WAS SAYING.

Oh, he understood. He just thought he could get you to sell your soul back to the corporation as a slave. Because miserly loves company.

He wasn't listening to you when you told him your objections with the church. He wants you back in the church and that's all that matters.

He wasn't listening, he was only waiting for a pause so he could
insert the standard replies, "don't leave cuz ur offended . . .
we need you . . . yadda yadda."

He doesn't care whether you believe. He needs people with leadership skills. I think this tells you how desperate the stake is. All is apparently not well in Zion.

The next time ask him if he could believe in Santa Claus again.

He's got nothing vested in understanding you.... he might have

to examine his own belief's ....

He wasn't interested in your words at all. His only interest was in saying his own words to you.
If you did go back, his only concern would be to tell others how his words did the trick.

There are two things involved here. One is denial. Similar to an alcoholic denying their dependency on alcohol.

The other is more devious. It is confirmation bias. Because what you believe does not confirm what is already his perception he rejects what you believe out of hand. This is a typical move within the structure of any mind control organization. Note that I did not use the word "cult". A cult is only one type of mind control organization. So I usually steer away from the word. In my humble opinion confirmation bias is more than a brick wall. It is more like a granite or marble wall and equally difficult to breach.
I could go on and boringly on about this but I think that what I have written here is sufficient to the moment.

plz come back OPie

While you were talking, he was formulating what he was going to say next. He knows he's right, so why would he listen to any of your blather? Or worse, maybe he's heard it all before and he's already decided it doesn't matter.

He gave me the "sad" look like he felt sorry for me. I was letting facts, science, history, and evidence get in the way. How stupid could I be.

Funny, that's how my TBM ex treats me.

I think you did a remarkable job at keeping your composure, Sam. My SP was also a friend. But somehow in his rise in the church there wasn't time for friendship. I did get an obligatory visit when he was my bishop.

I have a hard time when I get the "I pity you" look. Fortunately, most TBMs in my life know that they're not going to get very far with the instant friendships and live bombing and pleading to come back.

Very best wishes to you! The Boner.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2016 09:06PM by BYU Boner.

I kinda feel cheated now....no begging calls from the bish or SP after I resigned....not really.

RB

Ron, we're pleading with you to come back to the church. You and your wife can be sealed together as an eternal family (after she tells the pope to fuck off). We miss you, we know that we may have offended you (yep, you're a wanker alright). So, let's take baby steps to help you come back (get your checkbook out). We're here to be your friend (as though we want a farmer yokel in our midst). The Brethren of Raymond, Alta.

Gee thanks, Boner....makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside...wait, no...that just gas from last nights cabbage rolls...

Regards,
Yer brother in sin and ale,

Ronnie

A good response


"You really have not heard a word I have said, have you?"

If they say "yes"

Then you reply

"Tell me what you heard me say? I want to be sure you heard what I really said, and not what you imagined I said"

He sounds like the jilted lover, when you have said you are leaving for good:
"But you CAN'T leave me! I NEED you!

I got that same treatment from a guy I was in 'Nam with two years ago at our annual reunion. I told him I had once been LDS and I got the same standard rote questioning as Sam. He couldn't accept how a church member could come to the decision that the Mormon church is false. Last year when we met for our reunion he didn't even say hi. I'll be seeing him in a couple of months. I'll approach him this time and we'll will see how things go this year.

Mormons have a deep dark blind spot about this. They are indoctrinated to think that no one leaves their church because of studying the facts.

It must be lazyness, offense, or a desire to sin.

In normal churches no one attacks someone for moving on to another church or no church. Personal choice is the norm. Other churches live by the mormon 11th article of faith better than mormons do.

I think you need to change your opening line. When you told him, " I had a few bad experiences in the church that made me wonder" I can see how he may have taken "bad experiences" to mean that you were offended by somebody. I think in his mind, you got offended by someone which caused you to have doubts, so then you started reading anti-Mormon stuff and got lead away by Satan.

Perhaps you could rephrase that to avoid misunderstanding - assuming that the person actually listens to what you are saying. Maybe by directing the TBM toward your issue with the TEACHINGS of the LDS Church. Maybe something like, "Over the years, I found that many of the things being taught by the LDS Church just seemed wrong to me and eventually I decided that I had to be true to myself and true to my beliefs."

I think a little rephrasing can say the same thing but put you on more of moral high ground.

my husband told my tbm parents the other day that my daughter is now attending a different church.

Their response? to call me and invite me and mine to the upcoming ward picnic. I asked my father if he thought it wise to have me mixing with mormons after the church has published all that information? I would only talk about it to anyone who listened (not them obviously as they do not listen nor talk to apostate me anymore than absolutely necessary)

I politely declined.

They are indeed completely blind to the facts so cannot understand that we cannot 'unlearn' them, and they are too scared of losing their testimony/salvation to bother to find out what, exactly, these 'facts' are.

Father told husband that church is having 'challenging times', I assume from op that since they NEED opie, they must be unable to find worthy priesthood holders to 'lead' congregations, as previous poster pointed out.

I lost my need to not question. Questions led to knowledge. Knowledge led me out of the Church. Give me my ignorance back so I can come back to Church.

If he had been listening, he would have asked what exactly you found that caused you to conclude the church was false.

Of course, no TBM will EVER ask that question. They are much to fearful of the answer.

"Shane....!!"

When people ask me why they should resign instead of just ceasing to attend, I like to point out that resigning usually means no more bishops or stake presidents or stake missionaries or home teachers or anyone else bugging you to come back.

Usually. :)

"That research led me to the conclusion that the church was false and a giant fraud. He then asked me, to please come back."

"President, what part of 'the church is false and a giant fraud' did you not understand?"

I've had TBMs say similar things to me. It's like they didn't hear a damn thing I told them about why the church is a fraud. They just have that single-minded drive to get people to stay in the church or some back to church, whether it's a fraud or not. That's like asking someone to reconcile with their spouse, when you know that he/she's cheated on you with a different person once a month for 20 years.

"He said again, I wish you would come back--we need you."

That reminds me of what my last bishop said to my wife while we were making our way out of the church 19 years ago. I had stopped attending, but my wife and kids still went. The bishop caught my wife in the hallway and told her "I wish you could get Randy to come back to church. He's a good man and we need him."

But a few months later, after we sent in our resignation letter, the bishop treated me like I was the most vile apostate in the history of Mormondumb.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2016 07:21PM by randyj.

I have found it a HUGE put down, when I was asked why I left the Church, and when I gave them a quick run down of all the incredible abuse I suffered, and which tscc did NOTHING about, to find some sweet faced and sickly sweet voiced person say "Oh dear I am SO sorry you have been hurt".

W..H..A..T ?????? I was devastated, torn apart to the point that I almost could not get up again, and all they can do is parrot back the standard church response, "You've been hurt!!".

I don't say anything anymore, I just say, "I haven't been active for many years", and leave it at that. If they ask I will tell them I am no longer a member, but I don't volunteer any info. It is NONE of their business and I will NOT put up with the put downs anymore.

Nuff said!

He decided you were offended. That's what he needs to think to support his reasons why people leave. No listening required.

Hopefully he won't call again.

Reminds me of a quote

It is hard to make a man understand something when his livelihood depends on his not understanding it.

Sam: I am a Never Mo. I worked as Parole Officer for 20 years. Here is a technique I used with difficult people who would not listen. I would tell them something and I could tell they were not listening as they composed in their head what they were going to say next. When they would start with their comeback, I would interrupt and say, "Now, tell me what I just told you." Do this over and over until their brain explodes into confusion.