I was talking to my husband about my feelings toward TSCC and expressed my many concerns. He was very TBM and I didn't want to push on him the reasons why I dont believe it any more. I was surprised when he said he wouldnt be dissapointed if I resigned and he feels the same as me about the church. I am not sure if he wants to leave or not but I was thinking I would give him the CES letter. Do you have ideas on how to naturally offer it to him?

How about, "Hey Honey. If you are ever curious about the problems and concerns I have with the Church, I can give you a well written and researched paper that discusses many of the issues I have. I can understand if you'd rather not look, but if you want to understand a little more about what I'm thinking and feeling, I can give it to you."



Or alternatively:

"Read this, all of it, and I'll give you the best sex of your life."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2016 11:55AM by Darren Steers.

You could laminate a copy and use it for a placemat. And serve him a really nice dinner, but he must read his placemat first.

:P

Lol its pretty long, I dont think it would fit :)

I asked my brother about the CES letter when visiting him in Idaho last month. He, nor his wife, nor their children had heard of it. Die hard to the end.

He could go on about the literalness of the BoM, and the Lamanites in the Americas historicity. This is a guy with a PhD, mind you. Yet not a hint of the CES letter.

It may be he knows about it but feigns ignorance.

There was one time when we were young adults I had some anti-Mormon literature some Jesus freaks had given me. When I showed it to my brother and his RM best friend, the best friend took it from me and ripped it up, telling me we are "not to read such things." And that was where they stood as young elders in Zion.

Maybe still do?

Just give it to him and say, "This was an eyeopener for me--made me feel good, so just thought I'd share. Love to know what you think if it interests you."

I don't know how to make it "natural" unless you serve granola while doing it. :)

You are at a great place with each other. Most would kill to be in your shoes with their Mormon spouse. Just keep it casual with a "no pressure " attitude and let him know he's number one with no competition from man or church.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2016 11:56AM by blueorchid.

Before pulling out the CES letter, it should be fairly easy to sit down with the BoM and other church sources to compare how the "Eternal Gospel" that supposedly came from God himself is contradictory from one to the other.

It depends what he's into. Science? Mathematics? Politics? History? Sex? There's something for everybody. My personal fave is the Johnson "Big Data" study on correlation between The Late War and the BoM. Also, the BoA is beyond salvage by all but the most deluded apologists.

He's a huge history nut. He thought about teaching history on an academic level for a while

You could start with studying the character of William Law. He was a real law and order kind of guy with real character. He set up a print shop to publish the Nauvoo Expositor newspaper. They only published one issue (detailing the sordid truth of Joseph's affairs) before Joseph Smith sent goons to destroy the press.

With the ratification of the constitution in recent memory, such an action against the press was highly inflammatory. That it was in response to the airing of egregious abuse of power and sexual impropriety poured gasoline on the fire. Joseph was greeted in Carthage by the sound of pistol hammers being cocked.

Afterwards, William Law did his best to help Emma settle the debts of her late husband. He was a real stand-up guy.

Get your hubby "No Man Knows My History" by Fawn Brodie. It contains a lot of information that is now in official Church essays. The same info that got its author excommunicated.

Yes, William Law was a standup guy. But he is remembered in
Mormonism as an adulterer, because that's what Joseph Smith
publicly called him. This was at a time when Joseph Smith and
his polygamous inner circle would trash the reputation of
anyone who told the truth about what was going on in Nauvoo.
Martha Brotherton was called a liar, a harlot, and a
prostitute, just for telling the truth about how Brigham and
Joseph proposed plural marriage to her. Nancy Rigdon was
called, "poor miserable girl out of the very slough of
prostitution." Sarah Pratt, Orson's wife, who Joseph Smith had
propositioned in Orson's absence, was called "[whore] from her
mother's breast."

This was done when Joseph Smith was denying that any such thing
as polygamy was going on. Later when the Church admitted it
taught and practiced polygamy great pains were made to show
that Joseph Smith was the author of it and that he practiced it
robustly in Nauvoo. In other words, we now know that Martha
Brotherton, Nancy Rigdon, Sarah Pratt, and William Law were
telling the truth and that Joseph Smith was lying. That's a
settled issue. However Joseph Smith calling William Law an
"adulterer," is still on the record and still read to discredit
an honest man who did nothing other than stand up for truth.

Not sure there's any "natural" way to kick a stool out from under a person, so good luck with that. -- Fawn Brodie's book for sure, and maybe Grant Palmer's Mormon Origins.

JAR

Professor Jared Diamond's Pulitzer Prize winning book, "Guns, Germs, and Steel" is often highly recommended on this board.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel

"Do you have ideas on how to naturally offer it to him?"

Take your clothes off first.

This is a great idea haha :)

Although the CES letter is great. Most start reading after they find disturbing facts from researching for a Gospel Doctrines class or Sunday School class or Seminary class. It's usually just one or two subjects that start them on their way to the rabbit hole.

If he's a born and raised Mormon, I would suggest the corporations own essays. They're short, easy reads and since they're published by the church itself, he can't claim it's anti-Mormon lies. Then maybe send him to Mormonthink website and he can study just a few subjects.

The reason is, that many Mormons were never taught about Joseph Smith's polyandry/polygamy (before D&C 132); or the seer stone(s) or the different first visions; or maybe the DNA, historicity of the BoM (Chariots, horses, swords, etc... and the leaving out of cocoa beans, maize, etc...)

Just give him a few of the subjects; also if he's not a reader maybe send him to some of the Mormonstories or Infantsonthrones podcasts where they discuss social, historical, academic, philosophical issues. Remember the "Mass Resignation" wasn't due to past issues, but today's issues. So it might not be Gay Marriage, but billions on malls and money spent on cattle ranches, Beneficial Life, etc... and their lack of humanitarian or charity.

I wouldn't offer it yet.

It seems the next natural step is to ask him to tell you more about his feelings about The Church.

Seek to understand first.
Then to be understood