That beats a gospel principles lesson anyday! :)

The LDS house of cards is Crumbling;

nowadays, most people RESENT the authoritarian nature the church interacts with members, & manner they implement it.


Sic transit gloria mundi



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2016 09:53PM by GNPE.

I guess too much walking porn at church

I'm posting under the influence of 2 beers so get over it, lol

I was reading the part when her car-salesman Bishop was trying to psychoanalyze her. He told her she "should be able to substitute a relationship with Jesus for a romantic relationship." I wondered if that Bishop would like to try doing that himself.

It was sad to read her story and see just how much power the church was wielding over her, how much authority they assumed. But she got free of it in the end!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2016 11:38PM by seekyr.

I hope they show up here. I'd like to give them a virtual {{{{{{hug}}}}}}}… and I'd like to give that so-called bishop a good swift kick.

This is a GREAT article. SO glad to hear that they sorted it all out. I am SO sorry for the battle they had, with tscc and within themselves, but it is a wonderful outcome and I am very happy for them.

When I got to the part about the car salesman bishop, I literally snorted and rolled my eyes. How more typical of an ignoramus bishop can you get? 'satan wants you to not see me... when you say you don't want to see me, you really DO want to see me..' Yea, bishops are great at telling you what you REALLY need, and what you really mean. Assholes. Being a car salesman probably makes you great at hustling people professionally, but really, really, shitty in talking to them on a personal level.

The bishops I've had, that I can remember, by profession (in order)

Violinist/Music Instructor/Session Musician (Professional, played for a big metropolitcan city orchestra)
Doctor (Not sure what kind)
Vice President for Advertising for Sprint (something like that)
Lawyer
Farmer (and the weirdest prick I've ever met in my life)
Middle Management for Pacfic Union



I don't see any trained therapists, counselors, psychiatrist, crisis interventionists, etc. up there. Most did ok, a couple were so magnificently unqualified to deal with some of the even most BASIC problems that people had (that did not have to deal strictly with mormon doctrinal questions) that I had to question whether or not they had ever had a conversation with a person before.

Point is, so much of this woman's story, especially towards the end, is the anxiety and stress she feels about FEELING that she HAS to tell some unqualified asshole about her private business. Mormons are some of the only people I know, who, as adults, feel the compulsion to tell what are essentially random people intimate details about huge parts of their life. I don't know any catholics who feel this way. I don't know any Jews who feel this way. I don't know any atheists who feel this way. I even know a couple Muslims, and they don't feel this way.

Maybe these people just feel more emotionally stable, and feel like they are qualified to decide whether or not they've done wrong and handle it in their own private way- between them and god, without the intervention of some religious mediator- I don't know.

The mormon church is the only church I know of where you are encouraged to go to a bishop if there is even a notion that you MAY have committed a sin. You are not qualified to decide- you have to ask your religious authority. THEN he can mete out the appropriate punishment.


Rant over.

Nice rant, darlin'. Agreed with everything!

;o)

Not sure if Lesbian is the right word for them. They are two people that found someone they love that is the same sex. Maybe I should have read more of her story, it was too long. If they were having normal male/female relations, would they have gotten together? Touching and being loved is a normal need we all have.

I think a person knows who they are attracted to. I am not gay so I could be wrong.

1. The very definition of homosexuality is loving someone who is the same sex. Of course lesbian is the right word for them.

2. "Normal" male/female relations? Normal? Honey. Normal is a setting on a washing machine. Check your brainwashing. You have some programming to unpack.

3. You seem to think that both women "turned gay" because neither was fucking a man, is that it? You actually really, truly believe that that is how homosexuality works? See number 2.

I no longer believe a person has to be born straight or gay to decide at some point they are going to be gay.

For some there is a conscious decision making process that goes into their choosing to be that way. Some may doubt their own sexual orientation if only because society has made it more openly acceptable to be homosexual.

There is a dearth of males to females in the mating population.

What if a straight heterosexual decided they would rather become gay and spend their life in a same sex relationship, than remain single and hetero? I can imagine some who are that way, even if not all gays or most of them are not born straight. There are some who were.

That is a choice after all adults are capable of making. As to laws of attraction, that's as individual as people are.

I understood where the master was coming from. It is within the realm of possibility that he raised that subject.

There were two Stanford University students (1 male, 1 female,) who came to my Family Life class my senior year of high school to speak to us about their gay lifestyle. They belonged to the fledgling gay and lesbian club (it was new to Stanford then,) and accepted our teacher's invitation to come and speak to our class on what family values meant to them. I finished high school in Palo Alto, home to Stanford U.

Both had been heterosexual before choosing to become gay. Both had been involved in a bad breakup with their straight partner and made a conscious choice they weren't going to remain heterosexual after that.

So while there are those who were born that way, clearly not all gay and lesbian people are. They were speaking from their own personal experiences, and did not consider themselves to be gay before changing their sexual orientation out of their own free will.

So why they couldn't just be considered bisexual, then? That IS a valid sexual orientation despite all the bierasure that goes on in the hetero- and homosexual communities. Bi people are often castigated as confused, greedy, and deep down, in denial.

Why is it so difficult to accept that people can have an attraction to either/or, be with whatever partner they are, and still be bi, not just straight or gay?

*snort* Man, you guys are GOOD this morning dog!

;o)

When you are raised in a religion that tells you repeatedly that your highest purpose in life is to be (heterosexually) married in the temple, it might take some time to come to grips with the fact that you are not heterosexual.

It never ceases to amaze me the amount of sexual ignorance on this site.

In a culture that suppresses sexuality and comprehensive sexual education, these are fairly common problems- Both the lack of understanding of anything outside the heterosexual norm and people not understanding their own orientation, hence why a lot of gay and lesbians marry straight people to "fix themselves."

*sigh* Women don't "turn gay" because of lack of sexual intimacy anymore than men do. You're born that way- If they had interest in men, they would be bisexual, but if they say they're lesbians, they're lesbians.

Homosexual people find their physical, mental, emotional, and sexual, and romantic needs fulfilled by a person of the same sex and some people don't figure that out till later in life. My sister is one of them and I'm sure there's a lot of stories like this out there.

Wow, what a trip. I feel so bad for what they put the two of them through, I'm just really glad they have each other and found their way out.

Now that is the craziest lesbian hookup I have ever heard of.

How they met will be fodder for future generations ....

They seem so young to have been placed in RS leadership positions. Some inspirational guidance there, no doubt. ;)

They went from RS sainthood to ainthood in record time.

More exemplary of the times we're living in than the church they used to represent.

Nice story, so glad they are out of LDS and together. They were treated horribly.

Hello everyone! I'm actually the Mary from the blog - I found this website through the referral statistics on the blog and wanted to post and say THANK YOU for taking the time to read our story!!! I've read Katie all of your comments here and we both are just overwhelmed by the love and support we're receiving from the exmormon community. Please feel free to share our story to anyone you think may need or want to read it.

Thank you again!!

I chose to believe it's really you! Not like that Lyle Jeffs who is currently posting here while on the lam...

YAY! for both of you for finding each other and YAY! for finding out that while truth might be hard to pin down, it became clear that la iglesia mormona had not one meaningful whit of truth.

Ever so happy for you!

Consider this my proof it's me! ...http://imgur.com/BIOI3T5


And again, THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!!! :-)

Just so you know, this place can become a little bit addicting for some. Fair warning :)

MaryandKatie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello everyone! I'm actually the Mary from the
> blog - I found this website through the referral
> statistics on the blog and wanted to post and say
> THANK YOU for taking the time to read our story!!!
> I've read Katie all of your comments here and we
> both are just overwhelmed by the love and support
> we're receiving from the exmormon community.
> Please feel free to share our story to anyone you
> think may need or want to read it.
>
> Thank you again!!

Welcome, Mary and Katie!

Very happy you found us...

...and the very best of wonderful wishes to you both!!

Thank you so much!!!

Loved your story!! I hope for nothing but the best for you both!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2016 04:00AM by Slumbering Minstrel.

Welcome Mary, and welcome, Katie! Thank for sharing your story. I'm so glad that the both of you found happiness.

Your story is inspiring, MaryandKatie. It's a wonderful thing to see people standing up against organizations for human rights. Too much has been taken from us. I hope to hear more from you.

Thank you so much donbagley! I agree - too much has been taken from us and we need people to stand up to spread awareness and help those who are trapped and feel alone/ashamed because of the circumstances the church puts them into.

Beautifully written blog, amazing story, and adorable couple.

Love is where you find it -- and that's a good thing.

I'm SO glad you came by here!
Here's your hug: {{{{{{{Mary&Katie}}}}}}}

Now where's that butthead bishop... gonna clean his clock!

I'm very glad you're here too - your story was moving and... I like a happy ending. Now you can have a life ;-)

Best wishes to both of you

Tom in Paris

Glad you are here too, you are both so cute and brave. That Bishop is plain evil and I am sure has caused much despair and harm to LGBT people who crossed his path. Good for you for getting past him and on to an authentic life. Be sure to let us know when your wedding is!