I wrote here for my first time the other day and I just had my counseling session. I haven't talked to my husband yet.

I'm so confused and I feel sick. My husband, I think, feels something is up because he asked to go on a date tonight and was wondering where I was during my appt.

A few questions I have...

1. All of the "good" feelings I had - what were those all of these years?

2. I feel so much anger and sadness and like I was duped for 17 years.

3. I feel like me leaving is the right thing but me leaving to him or outsiders looking in is that I'm following satan and being led astray as a person in the big and spacious building as they call it.


My counselor told me today that he has seen marriages come through a lot of more horrible situations than mine but that it will probably get worse before it gets better and it may not end well.

I feel like I'm going to throw up.

I actually saw the missionaries ride by when I pulled out of my appt, the Bishop left a message "checking" on me Friday and my phone is blowing up with visiting teachers and I haven't even let anyone know yet. I think this is all so weird.

Just needed to vent.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2016 03:58PM by srm2016.

I'm sorry for the run on sentences I'm just upset.

srm2016,

I know every situation is different. But I think you have some things in common with a lot of people here who have gone through the same thing.

For instance, I understand the good feelings, however they aren't unique to the church. I actually have felt the spirit stronger when I was with a group of women doing love meditations. I felt like I could walk on water after I left.

I still grapple with my thoughts on God, Jesus, Spirit. I just know that the church doesn't know anymore than I do, they just pretend to.


I love my family and my husband but I refuse to live a lie and ignore my conscience, that was smothering me and I wouldn't have lived very long if I continued to do that.

Everyone is here to support you and you've taken a great first step finding someone to help you figure out who you really are.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2016 04:05PM by minnieme.

It will get worse before it gets better.

I only have one suggestion: Don't tell any fibs/lies, even when fibbing (especially by omission) seems to be the kind thing to do. Trying to be "kind" by withholding information is a bad thing. It is almost always guaranteed to snap back and bite you.

Another thought... Do you have a "destination"? Have you thought about where you want to "BE" in six months, a year, etc.? When I went through my leaving faith, all I knew is where I didn't want to be. I should have thought more about where to head for, but maybe that's not always possible...

One thing certain (although not always as useful and we'd like it to be): RfM will be here for you, in our mostly limited capacity. Lots of good people here.

I'm so sorry that you have to deal with this. That the church does this to people is one of the reasons why I left it.

You're in shock. You're dealing with a lot of very strong emotions and trying to figure out what it means to you and your relationships. Unfortunately, the church is trying to not let you catch your breath, they don't want you to have time to think and come to terms with this, it's a major change for you. Don't underestimate that.

As for your questions:
1. What were those "good" feelings - They were just that, feelings. The church is very good at generating emotion, everything they have is an appeal to emotion, but that's all it is, emotion with no substance. They use the good will and community to build those good feelings. They teach you, over and over again, that you will feel good when you do what they tell you and reward you for it. They prey on these emotions and use them to keep you under their control.

2. Of coarse you have anger about that! It's one of the big reasons this board exists, to vent that anger. You were lied to, you gave time, money, and energy to an organization that was using you. If you weren't angry, then there would be something to worry about. Over time, the anger will die down and become managable. You're hurting now and worried about your husband's response, so it's natural that it would flare right now.

3. I totally get that. Many people here are still attending to keep the peace in their families. It works for them, but every case is different, many simply can not attend anymore because of how they feel about the church. You have to do what's right for you, regardless of what other people may or may not think. If someone is going to think that you are following Satan for simply not attending a church, you might want to reconsider that relationship, because a friend wouldn't/shouldn't do that to you.

I didn't read your other post, so I don't know everything going on with your relationship. I will tell you that I was the TBM in my relationship. My wife left the church years before I did. It was difficult, but I loved her for her, not for her belief in the church. So, until my head cleared and I left the church, we agreed to love each other, differences and all, and to agree to disagree on certain things. We respected each other, which to me, is one of the most important things you can have in a relationship. So, it can happen, it doesn't always, but it can. It's a bumpy road though.

(don't feel like you need to appologize for gramar here, gramar policing is against the rules here, so no one should pick on you for that, after all, the admins want people to be able to post about some very difficult topics, that are often hard to get across)

I'm so sorry for your pain. The empty feeling inside like the rug has been yanked out from under you.

The "good" feelings you had were because you felt accepted. But they weren't accepting you, they were accepting Mormon you. If you do something not Mormon or become not Mormon, they can't accept you because their Church tells them they can't accept you. Take the latest LGBT controversy as an example. The ugly truth is that there's no room for unconditional love in the Church. It would be wonderful if the leadership could make room, but obviously they can't. Maybe for the same reason one can't quit the mafia. You're having the feelings of cognitive dissonance. That will pass.

You'll be accepted here for sure. Not sure how much it helps right now, with your head spinning and all. My belief is that love is the answer to everything. Every Thing. Love you first. Do what makes you feel good about yourself. Be the champion of your own story. It's your story.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2016 04:22PM by bradley.

It hurts a lot. My discovery was after 40 years of indoctrination.

My wife and I spent a few years at each other's throats. It was horrible.

I just didn't want any more of the church's lies and the only way to do that was to separate myself from that. At first both myself and my wife thought that also meant without each other -- and the bishop (my wife's bishop) was on the page of "leave him"

We overcame, I'm glad my wife didn't put much stock into what that bishop said.

I can honestly say that I have got to a point that I'm much much happier than I've ever been in my life before and my wife and I just past our 34th anniversary. She is still a "member" but clearly only for her parents sake. She agrees there isn't much "doctrine" to be found in the church and also the "culture" and "friendships" are all so fake and unnatural, or completely non-existent. She likes to play the organ and that is probably her #1 reason for continuing to attend.

Everything in our relationship is so much better without Joseph Smith and followers.

Enjoy your new life -- after the waves calm you'll find real happiness -- not that fake stuff promised in church.

Good luck.

srm2016 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1. All of the "good" feelings I had - what were
> those all of these years?

They were probably authentic. Trouble is that they were bound to a lie.

In a tiny way it like remembering something wistfully and then having confirmation that you remembered it a lot better than it was. Self confirming feelings are more prone than other feelings to be seen as more wonderful than they were especially if they were experienced in a religious context.

The bottom hasn't fallen out yet.

Remember the only one you owe any explanation to at all is your husband. Those other people, the bishop, SP, VT's etc, are just third parties and incidental to your marital relationship. I'd tell (or at least envision telling them each to "shove off" for now.)

Your marriage is on the line, as you see it. That is the only relationship that matters. Those others are pseudo relationships at best. They are going through their motions of various church callings. But they aren't feeling your pain, or really relating to what you're going through. How could they?

Don't even talk to them, if I were you. This is between you, your husband, God, your counselor, your family (who you let in to your inner circle.) And go from there.

If you end up resigning you owe none of those church people an explanation, nor apology. Just e-mail your resignation or snail mail. Don't let them scare you into believing you have to meet with one of them because you don't. Be clear in your resignation you want no contact from church officials, you just want to be released from your membership and callings. And let it go at that.

They will try to guilt you otherwise, and then shame you. And then shun you. You shun them before they can do it to you is my advice. That way you're ready for their mindgames and you're not playing them because you've removed yourself from their tentacles (you hope.)

As for your husband, it will be up to him as to how much he values your marriage over the church. Pretending and living a lie is no way to live either, though there are some who've gone that route. If you can still support him in his callings as you no longer believe, that is something only you can answer.

If you want a more technical explanation, IMHO existence is based on fractal compressions in time space (or perhaps better the morphic field) that give rise to certain heart coherence effects when a group of people is grooving on the same thing, whether it's a fabricated God or a rock concert. Call it the music of the divine. What you felt was a real feeling. But at what expense?

The consensus here is that you can get those same feelings again, but without the debilitating psychological toll of the church.

Re: feelings: any church or cult can take genuine good feelings you have and make you *think* it's because of them; if your baby smiles at you and a wave of emotion washes over you, the LDS church wants you to think that Heavenly Father is somehow involved--you know--"the veil is thinner and the baby can remember Jesus" or some such clap-trap.

Take one step at a time, and one day at a time. I agree with Amyjo that you should keep this between you and your husband. Don't bring anyone else from the church into it, even if your husband insists.

The good and spiritual feelings that you felt are felt by other people in various faiths and outside of religion altogether. I've felt those feelings in an Episcopal cathedral (I'm not Episcopalian,) on top of a mountain, and by the seashore. It is a feeling of connectedness and that you are a part of something greater than yourself. It is a feeling that for that brief moment in time, you are in harmony with everything around you. It is a wonderful, deeply meaningful feeling, but it does not mean that any particular religion is "true." It means that you are a human having a spiritual experience.

One thing that I am deeply convinced of is that if there is a God, that God is so far above human religion that s/he would not care about whatever faith a person chooses to pursue. I think that any God *worthy of that name* would care that we practice love, kindness, and humane behavior. If there is a God, then we are all God's "children," and all are worthy of salvation. Why would God elevate or value one above another?

Religion is a human endeavor. It is our way of trying to understand that which is greater than ourselves. Religion does reflect some of our best values, but it also reflects our all too human failings.

Mormonism has some wonderful individuals, but it was founded by some less than stellar people. Honestly, Joseph Smith and Brigham Young had nothing in the way of spiritual insight. Joseph was a con man, opportunist, seducer, and liar. Brigham was a user and a bully. If you want to choose people to learn and grow from, you could do far, far, better.

I'm glad that you are seeing a counselor. Keep at it. We are here for you and are rooting for you.

Big hug. I know it is not easy to discover everything you have based your life on is a lie. Hang in there.

So sad that you are having such a hard time.

Any big change like this is scary. Even more so because you don't know how others will react. You can always run your thoughts by the people here to try things out. It's often better to go slowly on breaking big news and when you feel that you are about to burst, write us about it. We will listen and give you a sounding board so that you can relieve some of the pressure.

For number 1, as others have said, your good feelings were real good feelings. The problem is that the church takes those good feelings and twists them to seem to be only from the church. Yu can and will get the same good feelings in any other church, in any other social group or endeavor. Those feelings are normal human feelings and they come from within you. You are the author of your good feelings. Everyone, everywhere, can feel those feelings. It is one of TSCC's worst and most damaging lies that they are the only source of those good feelings and that those very same feelings from any other source are bad. What a horrible
way to manipulate people's minds.

Number 2 - you were duped and it is shocking to realize that. It is terrible to see that some group to whom you gave your trust has been using you for their own ends. I know how you feel, have been there and felt that. It is so upsetting. But once you know the truth, you can grow past the pain and frustration. It may take a while, but you can do this. Just be willing to give yourself the time and space to do it.

Number 3 - oh, how sad a situation that is. How unjust and unloving for a group to cry "Evil!" when they are confronted with honesty and facts. Remember the 11th article of the faith, and tell them that you will strive to follow it, but that they should give it a try, as well.

Your husband - try to take it slowly. If he is thinking that something is going on, try telling him the truth, but in small doses. Something like: "I've learned that this one thing is true. But I was taught that the other thing was true. I need time to figure it out. Pressure won't help, but a little love and support surely would help."

Be sure to let him know that you love him for himself, entirely separately from his religion. Mormons tend to see their religion as being such a complete part of themselves that they have a hard time separating self from faith. You may need to really stretch to try to help him with that. And you may need to let him know that you are doing that, on a continuing basis.

You have a great opportunity, here and now. You have the chance to grow more and more into a person who is stronger and wiser. A person who values truth above fear. There is no evil in what you are doing. The evil exists in the doctrines that would try to prevent you from following the truth.

When life gets really insane, it helps to watch the Bill Hicks "It's just a ride" bit. He was a brilliant comedian.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgzQuE1pR1w

I have empathy for the betrayal you are feeling. I thought I had discovered a golden path to follow to make a perfect, unbelievable family and life eternal, and when I knew in my heart that the church was not this but was instead nothing but a cruel, greedy hoax dreamed up by a cruel, greedy conman, I so wished I could tell sleazy Joey in person what I thought of him, using every swear word that I was aware of.

It will take time for you to sort out your feelings and do give it time. I resigned with a registered letter (the old way), and when the stake president was notified he called me. I wish I had handled that phone call differently than I did and will pass this on to you. Because he still was in his make believe world where he thought he had authority over me, he asked questions like, Have you really thought this through? Have you talked this over with your children? (I am a widow). I have since learned to be more assertive (from this forum, as well as other places), and I wish at the beginning of the conversation before he could drill me with his authority bullsh**, I would have said, I have done what I wanted to do and felt was the morally right thing to do by resigning from a fraudulent cult. This conversation is over. Good bye.

So happy that you are going to counseling. It helps to have a non-judgmental person listen to you whether you are talking, shouting, or crying. Giving a voice to what you are feeling will go along way to help paint a picture for you of what you want and how you will go about getting it.

(((((lots of hugs))))) Do keep us in the loop of how you are doing.

Please click these links. When I was feeling very traumatized, circa 2000, these things would have been good to know.


http://www.csj.org/studyindex/studyrecovery/study_trauma.htm


http://www.icsahome.com/elibrary/studyguides/formergroupmembers

(scroll to the bottom of this page for links that you may find helpful)


Anger and sadness are normal and healthy reactions. They may be difficult feelings, but they are part of being human. They are not "bad," just difficult, and you can learn to experience them without assigning negativity to yourself (duped). Being manipulated is no crime, and most everyone here has been manipulated in the same ways. You are not alone.

You are NOT responible for the feelings and reactions of others. You cannot control how someine else thinks or feels - that is what the church does, and tries to train its members to do.

Got to run, but will be sending good and healthy thoughts your way.

srm2016, you have done NOTHING wrong. Make sure that you let this sink in to your mind firmly. You should not feel any guilt or shame what-so-ever. On the contrary, the brethren owe you a grave apology.

Concerning "those feelings" you had, they are totally valid.

Now if you have the chance, I'd recommend listening to the National Anthem, and a few of those from different countries.

A second experiment would be for you to read a different version of the Book of Mormon; try an original 1820 edition, or even an RLDS version...you can easily find it online.

How do you feel? Is the same spirit present that you feel when reading your familiar copy? If it is different, why?

The emotional attachments we have to our own national anthem are ingrained in us from childhood, and we see our peers and grownups having those same reactions. So too, the Book of Mormon, and even different Holy Bible editions! Your emotional and spiritual confirmations are closely linked to your environment. Like all mormons, you were taught that only certain things could be correct, and anything different was a counterfeit. Your emotional reaction is said the be the Holy Ghost speaking directly to your spirit.

The Holy Ghost cannot lie. Thus, if you do not feel the spirit reading a different typeset of your scriptures, you can safely say that you are emotionally tied to your familiar set and not necessarily under the influence of the Holy Ghost or of the Adversary.

As I said, your feelings are totally valid. They make sense to us because they confirm our expectations. They confuse us when they contradict our hopes and desires, but when we step back and experiment with them as above, they also serve to teach us about the nature of reality and our own sense of truth and error.

Hang in there. It's a rough and tumble ride, but you will prevail if you seek truth and are brave enough to accept it.

One last thing I'd like to mention that really messed me up, but was the key to understanding- our mormon ancestors were under divine command to be a record keeping people. They kept faithful records of the happenings and faithfully saved every word that fell from the prophet's mouth. The church published sermons, made newspapers, and wrote extensively about many topics that were necessary to eternal salvation.

Today we are counselled by the church to avoid those writings because they destroy testimonies. That would be impossible if the actions and words were inspired of, and given, by God.