I was in my front yard last night at 8pm. Two missionaries came up to talk to me about TSCC. I stopped them and in a very calm and non confrontational manner told them why I left the church 4 years ago and all the reasons why. I also told them all the historical and doctrinal issues, the big money issues, temple changes, everything we all talk about here. They listened to me with wide eyes. I could tell their minds were spinning. They didn't argue or snap back with any preprogrammed testimony, although I told them I knew every comeback they were going to have. They really had no comebacks but to listen to me. Well, the kicker is that one of them said "yeah, we've been hearing this a lot from the people we meet with". He also told me he had family members leave for the same reasons. Before they left, he told me he was here to help me with whatever I needed, like mowing the lawn or anything. I said thank you but you aren't paying $400 a month to mow my lawn. I told them to think about what I said and investigate for yourself. Seemed like nice kids, hopefully something I said sunk in.

Sounds like you handled it very well, Hail Odin. I applaud your restraint and civility. Those kids don't know...TSCC surely isn't going to tell them the truth. Hopefully they will take your counsel and investigate for themselves. Have a great day.

Thanks Ed. I didn't want to be aggressive to them. They didn't give me a reason to be. I wanted to speak from the heart. I could tell they wanted to listen and their gears were turning the whole time.

30, 40, 50 years ago, if you told a fellow member that you'd met an apostate, there would be shock and hand wringing!

Today, what TBM doesn't know of dozens of cases of apostasy?

This apostasy stone cut from the side of the mountain is rolling forward faster than that other stone.

Today's missionaries serving in 1st world countries have two years worth of front row seats to the truth of what we're all observing.

You got that right elderolddog!

I generally treat them kindly -- I was once in their shoes.
But like you, I also don't pull any punches.
I'll feed 'em, give 'em something cold to drink, be nice to them...I won't lie to them or condescend to their cult.

No flipping way. You handled it really well. They are getting a lot more feedback than we thought.

-the aching Dennis

Yay! You survived!!!

you were very sincere and honest with them. hopefully this conversation will stick with them and prompt them to do their research

These were the kind of conversations that planted huge seeds of "truth" in my mind as a missionary and once I'd returned.

You did well.

Wow Darren, on your mission you had people tell you the truth about the Corporation?

No. Not specific to the corporation. Just truth, facts, evidence.

They forced me to retreat and defend myself with my testimony. But I knew deep down they were right, and my faith took another small chip out of it.

Yours was a much more compassionate AND effective way to deal with missionaries than some on this site propose. Nice job. You likely opened some eyes.

Two of my cousins kids are serving missions at this moment and I hope they will have people like you educating them about things were did not got thought in seminary or institute.

Thank you everyone. I felt good the way it went. I would have felt like a jerk if I went off on them. Hopefully I planted seeds. Lets see if they come back for more truth or if I put myself in the "list", LOL!

you planted a seed

I hear that more and more - that everyone knows someone that left over historical problems.

Ignorance is no excuse, 18yrs into the Google Age.
If tgey wanted to know all the damning information about the Doomsday Sex Cult they're selling, any idiot can Google it.
But they clearly dont care how damning the information is, even if it proves JS was worse than Warren Jeffs, theyre not going to quit singing his praises.
Why?
Because facing reality is not in their DNA. They're committed to perpetuating the tribal myth they inherited, just because they fear facing reality will cause the destruction of their entire lives, when its really just their egos cultural identity and group thinking that will be destroyed.
Which is a good thing.

A lot of us were where they are now. A lot of missionaries go home after their missions and "face reality." It isn't in their DNA. It is simply in their uninformed minds. The information is getting out and a lot of ex-missionaries are now ex-Mormons or at least Jack Mormons.

I was where they are now, but I didnt have the internet. They don't have that excuse. They know once I tell them and they still find a way to defend wife swapping, lying, fraud, adultety and child rape. I never would have defended Jiseph and Brighams sexual predator lives, had I known. Ive found that when I ask missionaries questions, instead of answering, they get all pissy with me, as if Im the bad guy for asking a serious, legitimate question like, "How do you reconcile Joseph and Brigham's practice of claiming their followers wives as their own, with all the laws condemning that practice as adultery?"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2016 04:36PM by koriwhore.

Right koriwhore, that's the usual response. That's why it shocked me these two listened to me without any snappy comebacks. They will probably shrug off everything I told them because its difficult to implode your whole world by choice, even though most of us here did it. They will just go back into robot mode. My hope is that their shelf will eventually break.

I recently watched a live program about insects. The presenter was very informative and then after his presentation he allowed people to come up, hold out their hands, and hold a tarantula or a giant scorpion.

He did it very gently and carefully, and as a result, most people in the room wanted to take a turn at examining and holding them.
Had he picked up the insects and hurled them at the audience, they probably would have recoiled and run out of the room.

Sometimes you need a gentle introduction to scary subjects before you feel safe enough to explore them.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2016 12:01AM by seekyr.

I agree, to a certain extent that "I didn't know" isn't an excuse. But the massive, MASSIVE social pressures that exist for these kids and the indoctrination and the brainwashing that happens can make it so that it could possibly be forgiven.

Think about how often we are comfortable in our own assumptions and illusions. If Mormonism is all they have known and what they have been wrapped up in and surrounded by (and nurtured with, including probably all family members, perhaps a large majority of their classmates, members of their community, etc.), why would they feel it necessary to do ANY investigating? If I "know" the Book of MOrmon is true because I've prayed about it and my cousin Bob knows it's true and all my uncles and half of my aunts and 1/3 of my high school class have gone on missions and it's true, it's true, it's true is all you've ever heard, what need is there for serious investigation? (Devil's advocate: if you're going to go shill this religion for two years and pay for it, maybe you OUGHT to dig around a bit...)

Think of the mindf*ck the leaders are currently engaged in, trying to keep people off the internet (because "PORN") and away from the Google God and listen to your leaders for difficult questions and etc.

I remember the physical reaction my body had to the first time I read something considered "anti"--my mind and body and surroundings had been so carefully manicured and developed and pruned that I SHOOK when I read supposedly "anti" stuff. And then the reaction that IT'S PROBABLY (more) TRUE, what the anti stuff is saying, leads you here. THAT idea--that the entire worldview you've built up for years--that all your aunts and uncles and parents and friends and everyone you probably surround yourself with because you are so ensconced in the Mormon bubble could be involved in, could propagate such a LIE--that idea is devastating. And you might not be able to do anything about it but post anonymously on some bulletin board because your whole life will implode.

That's why they can use that excuse, in my book. (Plus they're overly cocky servants of God with more authority that the pope in their little, Melchizedek-priesthood bearing pinkies. Why would I investigate?)

anonhombre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree, to a certain extent that "I didn't know"
> isn't an excuse. But the massive, MASSIVE social
> pressures that exist for these kids and the
> indoctrination and the brainwashing that happens
> can make it so that it could possibly be forgiven.
>
>
> Think about how often we are comfortable in our
> own assumptions and illusions. If Mormonism is all
> they have known and what they have been wrapped up
> in and surrounded by (and nurtured with, including
> probably all family members, perhaps a large
> majority of their classmates, members of their
> community, etc.), why would they feel it necessary
> to do ANY investigating?

I agree. And often there's no awareness that there "is" anything out there, beyond what they have been told. I would venture to say that even if you told many TBMs that there was more out there and even provided examples, most would not want to even look for fear that it was anti crap or untrue.

Sadly, I would even say that there are many that, if they discovered it, would dismiss it--not from a "faith" standpoint, but from a complete lack of comprehension. I don't know if this is typical of LDS or people in general, but it's my opinion that most wouldn't do the math very well.

Because they start with the conclusion, that the answer is always 5, when the question might be, "What's 2+2?"

Since they have 5 stuck in their brains they'll accuse you of being stupid for asking the question. Why do you ask? Are you trying to cover up some sin?

Great way of handling the situation. You are to be applauded. Sometimes we forget that these kids are kids, just doing what they are programmed to do.

Excellent post. Speaking genuinely and respectfully is how I handle all of my missionary encounters now. I speak the truth deeply and all the missionaries I've spoken to really listen in. I can tell that I'm someone different they don't know how to handle. It's amazing to watch them begin to connect the dots and realize what's really going on with TSCC. Funny to say, I might have "converted" about 8 of them now, all within the last 6 months. Welcome to the Real World. Stay frosty ;)