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Posted by: RPackham ( )
Date: June 15, 2016 06:14PM

Does God LIE? Do God's messengers or chosen representatives LIE?

Scriptures on lying:

No lie is of the truth. 1 John 2:21
God cannot lie. Titus 1:2; Enos 1:6,, Ether 3:12
Satan is the father of all lies. 2 Nephi 2:18, Moses 4:4, John 8:44
Verily I say unto you, he that is ordained of me and sent forth to preach the word of truth by the Comforter, in the Spirit of truth, doth he preach it by the Spirit of truth or some other way? And if it be by some other way it is not of God. - D&C 50:17-18
And truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come;
And whatsoever is more or less than this is the spirit of that wicked one who was a liar from the beginning.
The spirit of truth is of God… - D&C 93:24-26
Wherefore, I, the Lord, have said that the fearful, and the unbelieving, and all liars, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie, and the whoremonger, and the sorcerer, shall have their part in that lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, which is the second death. - D&C 63:17, also Rev 21:8
...it is contrary to the order of heaven for a just man to deceive;... D&C 129:7
Wo unto the liar, for he shall be thrust down to hell. 2 Nephi 9:34

Lying, as defined by Mormon leaders, is not only stating a falsehood, with the intent that the listeners believe it, but it is also a form of lying to fail to tell the WHOLE truth, or to intentionally lead the listener to imply something that is not true.

Marvin J. Ashton made the following comments in his sermon "This Is No Harm" (from Ensign magazine 2000):
"A lie is any communication given to another with the intent to deceive." A lie can be effectively communicated without words ever being spoken. Sometimes a nod of the head or silence can deceive...."

Mormon writer Robert J. Matthews says, in the October 1994 Ensign article entitled "Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness," that the ninth commandment is a
"strong declaration against ... gross understatements, fabrication, or the willful giving of any explanation not supported by the facts.... Even sharing the truth can have the effect of lying when we tell only half-truths that do not give the full picture. We can also be guilty of bearing false witness and lying if we say nothing, particularly if we allow another to reach a wrong conclusion while we hold back information that would have led to a more accurate perception. In this case it is as though an actual lie were uttered.... Lying and misrepresentation in all of their forms are wrong, no matter how they may be rationalized, and those who silently let these evils pass unchallenged are also doing wrong".

With these statements (which no believer will deny or gainsay), any church or any representatives of a church can be judged to see if it truly is "God's true church."

The test is easy: If the church or its official representatives are lying to you, or have lied to you, IT IS NOT OF GOD.

Has the LDS church ever lied? Have its leaders ever lied? If so, it is NOT the "true church." It is not God's church. It is Satan's church, according to the scriptures, since Satan is the father of ALL LIES.

For many examples of Mormon lying see "Mormon Lying" http://packham.n4m.org/lying.htm

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Posted by: peculiargifts ( )
Date: June 15, 2016 07:56PM

Thank you, Richard.

There have been several times in my life when I wish that I had had those quotations handy.

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Posted by: liesarenotuseful ( )
Date: June 15, 2016 08:02PM

I always remembered that talk by Ashton--and thought of it when I realized how much I had been lied to.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: June 15, 2016 08:08PM

a) prove (with objective, verifiable evidence) there's a "god."
b) don't need a "b" -- nobody can get past "a."

:)

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Posted by: baura ( )
Date: June 15, 2016 08:26PM

All the "no lying" sermons are about the members being truthful
to the leaders. It's not about the leaders being truthful to
the members.

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Posted by: presleynfactsrock ( )
Date: June 16, 2016 12:20AM

Yep, the mormon poopaws get a pass on lying whenever and wherever they choose. Because, dontchaknow, that some truth, why it ain't very useful. So the pass they get to do with the truth is to leave it out, change a part of it, change all of it, make a sly joke about it, tell half-truths about it, lie a little white lie about it, lie big about it........just whatever fits the fancy of the poopaw at the moment.

Hell, I just thought of something. The cult would not have much to say if they didn't lie. The morg would certainly be quieter!

Wouldn't that be refreshing?

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Posted by: Chicken N. Backpacks ( )
Date: June 16, 2016 09:36AM

But as Churchill said: "...truth is so precious that she should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies."


Oh, wait, the first two words of that quote is "In wartime..."

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: June 16, 2016 10:08AM

Do they live up to their own claims?

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