Recovery Board  : RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
Posted by: madeguy ( )
Date: October 21, 2010 05:20PM

To a true believing mormon, tithe paying is not optional. It is required of all faithful members of the Lord’s true church— the only ‘true’ church on the face of the Earth. You are to pay it gladly with a heart overflowing with gratitude— nothing less. Even if you follow every commandment, sacrifice all of your time, read the scriptures, parrot church authorities, clean the chapel, faithfully do your HT/VT, keep the Sabbath holy, avoid the appearance of ‘evil’, dress appropriately, magnify your callings, do temple work and genealogy, you will be burned to a freakin' cinder at the last day by your wise, loving heavenly father if you decide NOT to pay tithing.

Giving your hard-earned money to strangers when your family has unmet needs is immoral. It is selfish. People pay tithing out of fear. They pay it to avoid the wrath of God. It is a selfish act by those whose fear of God outweighs their commitment to support their own family. It’s ironic when church members, who claim that their family is the most important thing, pay out big bucks in tithing, and deny their family things they need. Church members are counseled to stay out of debt, but not if it means paying your bills before paying tithing. Full tithe payers are committed to saving their own arses.

It is immoral for church leaders to put so much emphasis on family, and then demand money from families who need it most, like single mothers, retired couples, or young families struggling to get by. No one gets a pass. Everyone must pay. Older people on a limited income may have to go without medication because they’ve been taught to always pay their tithing first. A young family may have to turn the heat down or eat cheaper food because church leaders demand they get their cut first. Ten percent usually represents most or all of a family’s disposable income. That means that a lot of the little fun things must be forfeited because all the fun money went to pay tithing instead.

They abused my trust. I will NEVER give another penny to the Mormon Church.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: madeguy ( )
Date: October 21, 2010 05:21PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: foolserrand2 ( )
Date: October 21, 2010 05:28PM

One year I was behind on a few bills, thanks to the joy of unemployment. I was asked if I was paying tithing on my measly employment monies and I said I wasn't and I needed to make sure I had enough gas, toiletries, etc... for the month. The needs of my family come first.

I was told I was ripping off God, selfish blah blah blah...... and if I didn't pay up my family would be cursed. Well, needless to say that never happened. I found a job just after that conversation without TSCC blessings. I never paid tithing again.

It was the beginning of the end for me. A few months later the garmies came off. Booya!!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: ExMormonRon ( )
Date: October 21, 2010 05:33PM

Okay, here's a kick in the pants. In a socialist government, taxes take like up to 60% or more from gross wages, but you don't pay medical and a slew of other things. While on my mission, many Dutch members/investigators were asking if they had to pay on the gross or the net. Well, of course you know what the answer was.."..on the gross..". Our Regional Rep (frog-faced, dickweed Charles "Beady Eyes" Didier) said we were to ask "..well, do you want gross blessings or net blessings?...". What a crock.

Just sayin'...

Ron

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Emma's Flaming Sword ( )
Date: October 21, 2010 06:15PM

He had a gorgeous shirt on, very expensive, and his wife had on a fancy out fit with lots of jewelry. They had a cart full of fresh flowers but the kicker was they drove off on a new Audi.
I could care less if someone wears nice clothes, spends hundreds on fresh flowers, and has a new Audi, however when they shame my friends and family into paying blood money to their cult it makes me sick.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lost ( )
Date: October 21, 2010 06:06PM

I had a *miserable* tithing experience.

I had just sold my home so that I could raise enough money to pay for an operation for my very sick baby daughter.

After the house sold and we moved into a much smaller apartment, our Bishop came by to see us. Apparently the fact that my house had sold and what it had sold for was listed in the local newspaper. So asshat had a check premade out for 10% of the sale price and wanted me to sign it right then and there!

I told him to get the hell out of my apartment and never bother my family again. He started ranting about how I was "cheating" the lord and bla bla bla.

I told him that a) Nobody from church was helping us and I had paid tithing faithfully for over 30 some years and b) I would pay tithing on the profit made on the sale of my home, not on the sale price! and c) I would pay that tithing during tithing settlement at the end of the year like I always do. He disagreed and claimed I was "cheating" the lord. I needed to pay in full right now. What a total asshat.

This asshat knew the $ was going to pay for my sick baby daughter's operation and he could care less. I had nothing but trouble from him until we moved away a year later. They dumped us out of our church callings, shunned us, and get this: We were refused temple recommends because this asshat *knew* I hadn't paid a full tithing and because my daughter had Down's Syndrome, so clearly my wife and I had a lot of sins we had to repent of. Can you believe this?

That was pretty much the end of the line for me...

So tithing is a very sore subject even though it's been over 12 years ago that this happened.

My daughter is well and doing great and our family is happy and prosperous now. We have been 10.5 years out of the church.

So much for their gloom and doom predictions.

And if I burn in the hearafter, we burn together as family, so they can kiss my butt.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: sisterexmo ( )
Date: October 21, 2010 06:28PM


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2010 06:29PM by sisterexmo.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: foggy ( )
Date: October 21, 2010 06:50PM

Lost Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We were refused temple recommends because this asshat
> *knew* I hadn't paid a full tithing and because my
> daughter had Down's Syndrome, so clearly my wife
> and I had a lot of sins we had to repent of. Can
> you believe this?

I am shaking a little this has made me so mad.

One of our very good friends has a Down's Syndrome son. I can't imagine what he would do to someone who had the audacity to say that he was some sort of punishment!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lost ( )
Date: October 22, 2010 12:18AM

foggy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lost Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > We were refused temple recommends because this
> asshat
> > *knew* I hadn't paid a full tithing and because
> my
> > daughter had Down's Syndrome, so clearly my
> wife
> > and I had a lot of sins we had to repent of.
> Can
> > you believe this?
>
> I am shaking a little this has made me so mad.
>
> One of our very good friends has a Down's Syndrome
> son. I can't imagine what he would do to someone
> who had the audacity to say that he was some sort
> of punishment!


Amen. I wanted to roast the SOB. Everytime I look at my daughter, I'd like just 5 minutes with the asshat. That fool
had no idea how hard it was to sell our home. One of our concerns was for the other 4 older children we had, but bless them, each one of them wanted their sister to have the operation she needed. The youngest even wrote a letter for Santa offering to give up his Christmas if he would help his baby sister. I realized right then and there that I didn't deserve my precious kids. So unlike a lot of people, I have zero regrets about leaving the LD$ church, just throbbing anger that I listened to their B$ and tolerated it as long as I did.
So yeah...I AM OFFENDED.

One of the very real problems in the mormon church is how they give very small men way too much power. And when these small men get the idea they can be General Authorities one day, well look out. The place is a cult, through and through. And they have absolutely no morality when it comes to tithing or anything else.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: loveskids ( )
Date: October 22, 2010 12:49AM

Stories like these make me sick. I have argued with dh about paying tithing. I always did the bill paying-including tithing. I now tithe to my non den Christian church when I want and how much I want. Anyway-dh says you are not forced to pay tithing if you are mormon-it's up to the person. Right...and never get your temple recommend renewed and various other
punishments" Dh hasn't paid tithing in 15 months (Since I quit writting the checks. He has his own account and makes all the money)so it will be interesting to see what happens when he goes to get his temple recommend renewed ina few months.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Emanon (not logged in) ( )
Date: October 21, 2010 06:29PM

..a co-worker of mine told me her family had barely enough money to pay the bills and take care of their needs and that if they paid tithing they wouldn't have enough money for food... but they were going to talk to their BP.

Their BP told them to continue to pay tithing but helped them obtain food.

The LDS church teaches its members that TITHING COMES BEFORE YOUR OWN ESSENTIAL NEEDS, like FOOD. Give us your money and we will take care of you, so they say. The behavior of the LDS organizational structure actually teaches members to be dependent on them, NOT independent, as is claimed. And it is this way for many of the psychological aspects of mormonism as well.

I've said it before but I'll say it again, mormonism is psychologically unhealthy.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: jpt ( )
Date: October 21, 2010 06:32PM

Why does God need a Starship?

Some of life's epiphany moments come in the strangest places, in this case, the worst ST movie.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Sorcha ( )
Date: October 21, 2010 10:30PM

jpt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why does God need a Starship?
>
> Some of life's epiphany moments come in the
> strangest places, in this case, the worst ST
> movie.

You mean it IS okay to "ask the Almighty for his ID"? :P

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Stormy ( )
Date: October 22, 2010 12:44AM

jpt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why does God need a Starship?
>
> Some of life's epiphany moments come in the
> strangest places, in this case, the worst ST
> movie.


But one of the best sayings ever.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Martin Luther ( )
Date: October 21, 2010 06:35PM

When I was a little kid I got some money, and was trying to decide if i should pay tithing on it. My good parents didn't force me toward any direction, but I finally decided to pay the tithing. That day, after church I found a ten dollar bill in the parking lot of our apartment. We asked around and no one claimed it so I was given the money. I was so amazed that doing the "right" thing gave me such quick blessings. haha. As a TBM I always was reminded of this story and shared it with others as a powerful "testimony of the blessing of paying tithing". That bishop probably just invested that ten dollars in creating a lifetime tithe payer. Nice try! LOL

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: CA girl ( )
Date: October 21, 2010 06:39PM

Give us 10% of your money or we will take away your family forever
Give us 10% of your money or we won't help you find a job, get church services etc.
Give us 10% of your money or we'll make you look bad and you'll be unworthy of the cool, temple-going crowd
Give us 10% of your money or God will fry you some day.
Give us 10% of your money because God blesses the faithful and punishes the wicked and your family will be cursed.

Options: ReplyQuote
Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Res Ipsa Loquitur ( )
Date: October 21, 2010 06:53PM

"The God I believe in isn't short of cash, mister." --Bono

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Misfit ( )
Date: October 21, 2010 07:36PM

I believe I've shared this story before on this board, but not sure-Two years ago, I told the truth to the bish and said i was a partial tithepayer. He not only wanted to confiscate my TR, but my wife's TR on the spot, even though she was a full-tithepayer. His policy was, my money is her money, so if the money isn't tithed, she's just as guilty. I didn't care about going to the temple, but my DW likes to go, so I paid tithing for a whole nother year to keep DW happy. I told her at the beginning of 2010, no more tithing is going to be paid, and i'll think of something to say the bishop when Tithing settlement comes around. Well, 3 months ago we get a new bishop, who happens to be a friend of mine. 2 weeks ago, he goes up to my wife before a meeting, tells her that her TR is up for renewal shortly, and tells her not to worry, her recommend is only conditional on what she pays on her money. Nice change of policy for the better, i guess. However, its still a shame that the church makes exaltation in the CK exclusive to only those that pay money to them.

The bishops must talk on the transition, because I never told my new bishop friend about the problem I had with the old bishop. I let my old bishop know in no uncertain terms what I thought about his policy right before I stopped paying.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Mormon Observer ( )
Date: October 21, 2010 09:58PM

Pay your tithing and we'll feed you.

Unhuh. My husband was unemployed and living with his uncle while he went to trucking school. I had four small children at home. I faithfully turned in my 'food order' two weeks early as requested. One month my RS pres comes up to me and says, "we're not going to get the food this week will that be a problem?"

"Yes, we are out of bread and milk as of tomorrow." (the day they always went to pick up the food)
"Oh" she said, "well, the food will be here next week".

"But my kids are out of milk! I can go get the food if someone gets me the gas." (I'd been allowed to go pick up my own food before) [The Bishops store house was 100 miles away, guess the presidency was 'busy' that week, but I wasn't]

"No, we don't want to do that".
She could have brought by a loaf or two from the store or a gallon of milk, (the RS had an account there for these kind of things) but she did NOTHING.

She walked off with her nice clothes, her soft voice and went home to her fine house (her husband had built for her) and fed her children home made bread, a perfectly balanced healthy meal with milk and thanked God that her family was so blessed to have "the Gospel" in the name of Jesus Christ Amen

I smiled to my kids told them I'd forgotten to get milk at the store again and wasn't it wonderful we could have ice water tonight? Along with my homemade bread......They were okay without milk, but that RS bitch RS president was considered by herself and others as the epitome of the best Mormon mother in the ward..... she was soooo rightous!!!!! And she cared sooooooooo much for others and was soooooooooooo loving. Dontcha know????

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: axeldc ( )
Date: October 21, 2010 10:05PM

They expect families barely getting by to pay the same rate as Harry Reid and Mitt Romney. Mormon families cut deeply into living expenses to pay tithing, while Mormon elites pay the same rate when they live like kings.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: October 21, 2010 10:15PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Simone Stigmata ( )
Date: October 21, 2010 10:41PM

I'm embarrassed to say that at one point in my life I used a Visa check to pay tithing. That's right, put it on my credit card. I was so broke I couldn't make ends meet, was just out of college and making little money. Two kids to feed, it was horrible. But I thought I had to have a temple recommend and that somehow I would be blessed by paying God his 10%. Gee was I an idiot believing in all that.

I remember praying that I could make more money so that I could live on 90% of it.

I am so mad at how I was brainwashed back then and thought that by paying tithing I would somehow be blessed. It never worked that way for me.

It is wonderful to be free of all that now.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: CA girl ( )
Date: October 21, 2010 11:15PM

One year when DH was working and going to school, we got behind on our tithing and wrote a $600 Visa check for it at end of the year tithing settlement. We felt "blessed" a couple of months later to be able to pay it off when we got our tax refund but it would have been a greater blessing to use that tax refund money for school, keeping down our student loans instead.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: snowball ( )
Date: October 21, 2010 10:45PM

I think it would be more charitable to GIVE money to Microsoft than LDS, Inc.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: LJP ( )
Date: October 21, 2010 11:15PM

It makes me cringe to think about all the money I tithed to the church, not to mention all of the other things paid for out of my own pocket for my 'callings'. The story about the heartless RS Pres made my skin crawl, I'm so sorry that you had to go through that Mormon Observer. In my ward the people that didn't have much were looked down upon because members had the mentality that "if they were living right God would be blessing them financially" attitude. I have a granddaughter with Down's and for anyone to insinuate that she was born that way because of sin is sickening, she's so sweet and innocent.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: JoD3:360 ( )
Date: October 21, 2010 11:38PM

Mark12 :38-44

Jesus condemns those scribes who devour the houses of widows, and then follows immediately the story of a widow whose house has beyond doubt just been devoured. What other words would be more appropriate to describe it? “She put in everything that she had, her whole living.” Her religious thinking has accomplished the very thing that the scribes were accused of doing. If, indeed, Jesus is opposed to the devouring of widows' houses, how could he possibly be pleased with what he sees here?

The story does not provide a righteous contrast to the conduct of the scribes in the preceding section (as is the customary view); rather it provides a further illustration of the ills of official devotion. Jesus' saying is not a penetrating insight on the measuring of gifts; it is a lament, “Amen, I tell you, she gave more than all the others.” Or, as we would say: “One could easily fail to notice it, but there is a tragedy of the day—she put in her whole living.” She had been taught and encouraged by religious leaders to donate as she does, and Jesus condemns the value system that motivates her action, and he condemns the people who conditioned her to do it.

When the story is read that way, Jesus is now seen not as a philosopher but once again in his usual role as a religious reformer.

Interestingly, the story finishes in the beginning of chapter 13:
One of the disciples remarks of the Temple : “Look teacher, what wonderful stones and what wonderful buildings!” And Jesus said to him: “Do you see these great buildings? There will not be left here one stone upon another, that will not be thrown down” (Mark 13:1-2; and substantially the same as in Luke 21:5-6). It is hard to see how anyone at that point could feel happy about the widow. Her contribution was totally misguided, thanks to the encouragement of official religion, but the final irony of it all was that it was also a waste.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: October 22, 2010 10:54AM

But didn't Jesus also say to give all you have to the poor and go follow him? Basically this kind of instruction would generate all kinds of people who will have nothing and would be on the dole while they "preach" and minister and follow Jesus. Why does it matter if a widow takes his words seriously more than another person who gave everything?

What did Jesus expect when he himself gave conflicting advice on this topic? He has asked others to leave their family for him. Why is a widow's mite more of a sacrifice than me giving all I have and leaving my family to follow Jesus?

Jesus was the one promising conditional eternal life to people. He shouldn't be surprised that people naive enough to believe him would give more then they should to invest in the promise.

To me it's seems disingenuous for Jesus to be lamenting when someone actually took him seriously enough to give too much to his cause. Surely Jesus should have realized he was setting up the foundation for people to collect money in his name.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: oddcouplet ( )
Date: October 22, 2010 07:04AM

Here's what bothers me most about tithing:

1. You can't get a temple recommend without paying it.

2. You can't get to the CK without temple ordinances.

3. You can't have sex in the afterlife without getting into the CK.

4, So it's about paying for sex, right?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: tho' it be ( )
Date: October 22, 2010 10:17AM

Reading these stories really makes me sad. I can totally relate because I've had similar experiences with home teachers and counselors and bishops attempting to spiritually bully me into gospel coherence.

It's a farce to believe that God almighty needs your unconditional devotion to an undefined principle that is, at best, misinterpreted by a group of uninformed men who don't even understand it themselves. I agree. God does not need a starship nor will he ever.

The First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles will never, ever, ever preach to the church as a whole what tithing really is. They will never, ever, ever come out and say that it is 10% of your gross income before taxes, savings, and expenses. They will never, ever, ever say that tithing is a "fixed" expense. They will never, ever, ever say that it's ok to default on your financial obligations as you pay your tithing first. They'll never discuss the range of expenses that families have and how God will magically cut you a check every month to make up for your shortfall because you paid tithing. Never, ever, ever will they do it. They rely on the gullibility of people and trample on the faith of well meaning members who really believe in charity. They will not take the responsibility. They won't.

Here's what they'll do and what they've done. They'll usually let a Seventy give a trite monologue about tithing in a pure textbook fashion that is, once again, undefined, ambiguous, threatening, and conditional. They'll have an anonymous writer submit a faith promoting tithing story to the Ensign.

They'll let you believe in the fairy tale until that day you find out for yourself that the dragon has burned your village and the king did nothing to stop it. The destroying angel will not pass you by. You'll be told that you didn't prepare enough arms to battle the foe. You'll be told that you didn't follow your king and did not give enough. It'll all be on you because you believed.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Jon ( )
Date: October 22, 2010 11:16AM

I'm shocked,

I can remember many a F&T meeting where some tearful mother of 12, stood up and said"...and we knew we were not going to be able to pay our bills this month, so out of faith we paid our Tithing first, and the Lard(thanks Ron) blessed us, and we did scrape by..." In fact I don't remember a meeting I didn't hear that one.

Are you trying to tell me that some people didn't get rewarded for their faith?

What a crock!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Sarony ( )
Date: October 22, 2010 01:06PM

Dear friends,

Sorry about your abusive bishops. I live in a "polite" stake outside of the Mormon Corridor, and my Bishop would never pull some of the horrible stuff I have read here.

But keep in mind what is actually Mormon Scripture and Policy, and not what your "unrighteous dominion" tormentors say.

Mormon Tithing
What amount is a proper tithe? And where can one find binding authority within Mormonism, to determine this?

I. Introduction

Binding authority in Mormon doctrine and policy, to declare what is a proper tithe, can probably be prioritized as first: the canonized scriptures and second: signed statements of the First Presidency.

II. MORMON SCRIPTURE states plainly that tithing is to be paid on any surplus beyond a person’s needs.
Joseph Smith and Sydney Rigdon produced D&C 119:4 (1838). It states:
“And after that, those who have been thus tithed shall pay one-tenth of all their INTEREST annually; and this shall be a standing LAW unto them FOREVER, for my holy priesthood, saith the Lord.” (Emphases added.)

Webster’s 1828 Dictionary defines “INTEREST” as
“5. Any surplus advantage.” (http://65.66.134.201/cgi-bin/webster/webster.exe?search_for_texts_web1828=interest). Webster’s defines “advantage”, in pertinent part, as “7. Interest; increase; overplus”. In the 1820′s, the word “interest” was synonymous with the phrase “surplus advantage”. A plain reading of the text leads to a harmony of meaning between the word “interest” and the phrase “surplus advantage”.

But what about scriptural harmony? Can one find the scriptural meaning of “interest” to be “surplus”?

Yes.

There are at least TWO passages of scripture that explicitly teach a proper tithe is one-tenth of surplus.

1. The FIRST passage of scripture is D&C 119:5, which is the next verse:
“Verily I say unto you, it shall come to pass that all those who gather unto the land of Zion shall be TITHED OF THEIR SURPLUS PROPERTIES, and shall observe THIS LAW, or they shall not be found worthy to abide among you.”

Significant meanings should be observed from verse 5. The phrase “THIS LAW”, can only refer to the previous usage of the word “law” in verse 4, which states in pertinent part, “and this shall be a standing LAW”. And the phrase “THIS LAW”, namely “one-tenth of all their INTEREST annually” in verse 4, is expounded in a clarifying manner as “SURPLUS PROPERTIES” in verse 5.

2. The SECOND passage of scripture comes from the Joseph Smith Translation (JST) of the Bible. Smith and Rigdon also produced the JST. It is mostly in Rigdon’s handwriting.
“Wherefore Abram paid unto him tithes of all that he had, of all the riches which he possessed, which God had given him MORE THAN THAT WHICH HE HAD NEED.” JST Genesis 14:39. (Emphasis added.)

This passage of scripture from the JST is not a mere relic of early Mormonism. The passage can be found in the Quadruple Combination, on page 798, after the Bible Dictionary, in the section JOSEPH SMITH TRANSLATION. Although the church does not include all of Smith’s translations from the JOSEPH SMITH TRANSLATION, the church has included this one in its official and current book of scripture as authoritative commentary.

Scriptural harmony between D&C 119, and JST Genesis 14:39 also resides in the concept that “interest” (D&C 119:4) is expounded as “surplus properties” (D&C 119:5), or in other words, “more than that which he had need” (JST Genesis 14:39). To understand the meaning of what is to be tithed, we are fortunate to find a simple, elegant harmony in meaning, between a plain reading of the text and Mormon scripture; “interest” (v. 4) means “surplus properties” (v. 5). Mormon tithing is defined as “one-tenth of their surplus properties annually” (D&C 119:4,5), which means “more than that which he had need” (JST Genesis 14:39).

III. What about OFFICIAL MORMON POLICY?

On March 19, 1970, the First Presidency sent a letter to presidents of stakes and missions, bishops of wards, and presidents of branches in answer to the question, What is a proper tithe?

“For your guidance in this matter, please be advised that we have uniformly replied that the simplest statement we know of is that statement of the Lord himself that the members of the Church should pay one-tenth of all their INTEREST annually, which is understood to mean income. NO ONE IS JUSTIFIED IN MAKING ANY OTHER STATEMENT THAN THIS. We feel that every member of the Church should be ENTITLED TO MAKE HIS OWN DECISION as to what he thinks he owes the Lord, and to make payment accordingly.”

The General Handbook of Instructions quotes from the March 19, 1970 letter from the First Presidency sets forth a definition of what is tithed.
Here is a portion of the General Handbook of Instructions from that section: “The simplest statement we know of is the statement of the Lord himself, namely, that the members of the Church should pay ?one-tenth of all their interest annually,’ which is understood to mean income. No one is justified in making any other statement than this.” (First Presidency letter, 19 Mar. 1970; see also D&C 119:4).

Because the General Handbook of Instructions quotes the 1970 letter from the First Presidency, the 1970 letter remains the official written policy on tithing.

Can one harmonize the statement of the First Presidency with canonized scripture?

Let us try.

The phrase “one-tenth of all their interest annually, which is understood to mean income”, has harmonious meaning with “one-tenth of all their surplus properties annually, which is understood to mean surplus income.”

Is this an unjustified statement?

I would venture, not if one does a plain reading of the text in D&C 119:4-5.

IV. What about Elder Sheldon F. Child’s Sheldon F. Child’s April 2008 General Conference Speech
The speech did not fail to give the impression a proper tithe is 10% of gross income. I understand they need our money, but why don’t they follow the scriptures in telling us how much of our money they need?
Child told a story of earning 20 silver dollars and paying two of them as his tithing:

“I remember Dad coming home that night and dropping 20 silver dollars into my hands. Money was hard to come by, and I thought I had all the money in the world. I counted, admired, and polished each coin carefully. When Sunday came, I reluctantly put two shiny coins into my pocket to pay my tithing.” (Sheldon F. Child in Sunday Morning Session of the 2008 Annual General Conference).

Is there a difficulty in understanding Elder Child’s message? Has he taught the faithful that a proper tithe is 10% of gross?

Elder Child was a minor when he earned his 20 silver dollars. Consequently, Child owed no taxes. Although it appeared he was paying a tithe on his gross, he was actually paying a tithe on his net since they were the same.
But according to Mormon scripture, Child was also paying a tithe on his excess beyond his needs. It states his parents were obligated to meet his needs; the obligation was to his “parents for [his] maintenance until [he becomes] of age.” (D&C 83:4).

It is remarkable that Child’s two silver dollars from a gross of 20 silver dollars was a tithe on his gross, his net, and his excess!

But it is also an oversimplification since Child no doubt incurred expenses in raising his livestock. Child’s speech seems gloss over both the scriptures and the statement of the First Presidency since his speech is a simplification of both the proper tithe amount and and it does not discuss the costs of his business.

Child’s speech may cause misunderstanding for the Saints as to what is a proper tithe.

V. Epilogue

Does willingly paying a tithe require faith, and if not faith, a benevolent heart?

Certainly.

If the Saints should pay the tithe according to the “standing law forever” which is seen by the scriptural and logical harmony of the word “interest” to mean “surplus properties”, should not the Brethren also consider having the faith to let the Saints pay their tithes according to scripture? Will not the Lord bless both the Saints and the Brethren for exercising faith in the scriptural definitions of tithing?
________________________________________
Appendix A – D&C 119 full text
1 Verily, thus saith the Lord, I require all their asurplus property to be put into the hands of the bishop of my church in Zion,
2 For the building of mine house, and for the laying of the foundation of Zion and for the priesthood, and for the debts of the Presidency of my Church.
3 And this shall be the beginning of the tithing of my people.
4 And after that, those who have thus been tithed shall pay ONE-TENTH OF ALL THEIR INTEREST ANNUALLY; and THIS SHALL BE A STANDING LAW unto them FOREVER, for my holy priesthood, saith the Lord.
5 Verily I say unto you, it shall come to pass that all those who gather unto the land of Zion shall be TITHED OF THEIR SURPLUS PROPERTIES, and shall observe THIS LAW, or they shall not be found worthy to abide among you.
6 And I say unto you, if my people observe not this law, to keep it holy, and by this law sanctify the land of Zion unto me, that my statutes and my judgments may be kept thereon, that it may be most holy, behold, verily I say unto you, it shall not be a land of Zion unto you.
7 And this shall be an ensample unto all the stakes of Zion. Even so. Amen.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Jon ( )
Date: October 22, 2010 01:35PM

Dear Friend,

Thanks for reminding me how deathly boring Sacrament Meeting High Councelers speeches were. In reply to your message, I'm out,...I don't care! Please come join us.

Options: ReplyQuote
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In


Sorry, you can't reply to this topic. It has been closed. Please start another thread and continue the conversation.