I was having a discussion about faith and religion and whatnot with my mom the other day. She expressed the concern that because I left the church then that means I no longer have any beliefs or spirituality. I explained to her that when I was in the church, I didn't CHOOSE to believe any of it - I just did what was expected because I was living in such a Mormon bubble. Now that I'm out, I am taking this time to expand my horizons and learn about all different kinds of religions and philosophies. This is my personal search for truth, and the more I learn, the more I am able to better myself by either taking in new ideas, or by at least learning to respect the viewpoints of others. So my beliefs come from a variety of places, and I try to always be open to the possibility that I will learn new things that change what i currently believe - I don't want myself to become stagnant because i refuse to let myself grow.

Anyways, my mom wasn't exactly receptive to this approach to life, and she said that I was just being stubborn and cherry picking things to believe because they "validated my lifestyle" or something. She said that I could search the whole world and never find the same truth that I had grown up with, and that I would eventually find my way back to the gospel.

I wish she could understand where I'm coming from. I want to respect her beliefs, but when she uses them to invalidate my own experiences, it's just a little frustrating.

It's how she's been conditioned to think. You can't make her see past that conditioning; she has to want to see past it herself, which it seems she doesn't want to.

By rejecting what you now believe, is she not also cherry picking her own beliefs? What is the difference?

Exactly! She is doing what she accuses you of.

my mother reacted to my leaving. My family had time to watch my life fall apart. When my dad asked me again when I was going back (he wasn't all that active, so this always shocked me), my mother told him, "You can be spiritual and not be any religion."

My TBM BYU graduate daughter and her TBM BYU graduate RM husband and I had a lengthy discussion over thanksgiving four year ago, in which I defended my transition to PanAtheism. It wasn't an attack on the church (dammit!), just an attempt at an intellectual discussion.

They are both bright people and I'd talk and they nod their heads and say "uh-huh" a lot, but at the end of it all, it was the same old thing: while I was talking, 1/3 of their brains was listening, sort of, and the other 2/3s was working on how to break it to me, gently, that I was wrong.

"Yes, mom, I am cherry-picking the best of what this life and world has to offer, and reveling in the beauty, the burning conviction that it is absolutely the only path for me. Thank you for seeing that!"

Your mom stopped seeking. You didn't. That's the difference. Some people here will beg to differ, but Mormonism had some special times for me. I figure if you can find God in Mormonism, you can find God in damn near anything.

You should tell your mother that she's so lucky to have been born into the right church when so many people have no idea what Mormonism is.

And if that doesn't work, drop this bomb:

Muslims believe as strongly as you believe in Allah. Someone is going to be disappointed.

As you said, you grow up in the mormon bubble. It's impossible to see reality for what it is when you're inside of it. Absolutely impossible.

I feel so lucky to be one of the ones whose bubble got popped. The world is a different place looking from the outside in. And it's not because we have a different lifestyle. What's different about my lifestyle? Drinking coffee and a little alcohol is not a "lifestyle." It's part of your diet. My "lifestyle" is no different. I still work hard, read a lot, enjoy quality entertainment, go to church, look for ways to serve (much more than when I was LDS), have hobbies, etc.

Sure, I'm not going to get married just to have sex when I feel no guilt if a relationship without marriage comes to that, so I enjoy being single. More and more the older I get. So maybe that's my lifestyle change. Mormons would say that dooms me to hell. I say most of the older married people I know are already there.

Until you point out that mormons cherry pick their own doctrine, What a hypocrite.

Ahh...the fruit of the tree of knowledge, isn't it grand?

"Physician heal thyself" seems to apply here for you mother. No one cherry picks more than Mormons. It is the very foundation of their mess of a church.

Leaving a belief system that you did not choose but was actually injected into you is the only way to "start from scratch" and build a new one on a foundation of total honesty.

The rewards of doing this are myriad. For most of mankind, goodness is innate, reciprocity is natural, and empathy is inescapable--that is until it is bound by the constructs of man in his attempt to control out of fear. And then, goodness is replaced by the need to ensure that no one has more than you, and that no one gets out of step with the march you have established as the only acceptable way to walk.

The natural man does not need to go to church and be told to in order to do the right thing.

My experience is that if you just be your best self now with your own honest value system that your mother will start to see who you really are and appreciate you--in a decade or two.

The ones who have it all wrong are always the most sure they are right. That is why doubt is good for all of us.

Fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil indeed.

And exactly what truth would that be? I put mormonism to the test and found lies around every single corner. Everything from the first vision, to the current day corporation, full of lies.

Also, define gospel. Mormons don't really know what that means, it's just something they say. I suspect they think the gospel is found in the Sunday school lesson book, which is also packed full of lies and half truth.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2016 11:12AM by madalice.

Like many have said, mormonism is all about cherry picking. I too, see nothing wrong with picking the good of other belief systems and leaving behind the bad. I think it's one reason organized religion is losing its appeal. It's give us your money and will tell you the rules to live by until we decide to change them.

I would tell her that plenty of active Mormons cherry-pick, and that it's also considered to be the norm among many of the mainstream churches. I never felt growing up Catholic that I couldn't question and come up with my own ideas about things. The church taught correct Catholic doctrine but they didn't try to put a clamp on my mind.

Tell her that you not only 'cherry pick', but you apple pick, plum pick, and peach pick as well. and that you have found it a great way to cull the facts from the fraud.

And, she might enjoy all this 'pea-picking' activity if she only gave it a whirl.

"I was just being stubborn and cherry picking things to believe because they "validated my lifestyle" or something"

And my reply to that: "Mom, there are things that I believe to be right and true and good, and there are things that I believe are mistaken or wrong. And I am definitely searching for things that SUPPORT or that don't conflict with my sense of what is right. But I prefer to call it using my own best judgement."

P.S - that choosing things that "validate your lifestyle" line is old old old! So that probably just popped right out of her mouth without even a second thought.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2016 12:57PM by seekyr.

What exactly is wrong with cherry picking? Selecting the most beneficial goods is a nice evolutionary benefit. Here is a sweet ripe cherry, here is a squishy one the bugs have been at...here is a philosophical/religious tenet that has a kernel of higher truth and leads to a happier life, here is a destructive cult based upon a conman's attempt to swindle money and seduce women.

You may have to lay down some rules like my husband and I did.

1. My choices are not up for debate.
2. If you ask nicely and I choose to explain to you my reasons for something I've done, it is not an invitation to debate. It's an agreement that I will talk and you will listen without comment.
3. If you want equal time to explain your point of view, and I choose to listen while you talk, it is not then an invitation to debate or a promise to do as you wish.
4. If you are confused about any of these guidelines it is not then grounds for debate about my choices.
5. Whether or not I will make my choices open to debate "just this once" or "just for you" is not up for debate. See #1.

Believe it or not I had to print these out on index cards and put them in the common areas of any house that TBM MIL and I were in together. I have heard every possible Mopologist spew on the spouse's and my decision to leave the cult. I've been manipulated, humiliated, threatened, criticized and belittled, and nothing ends a Mormon MIL's ridiculous rants like the simple statement that "my choices are not up for debate."

Although I have to say there have been some rather melodramatically slammed doors. Those work, too.

Cherries are made to be picked, and the Mormon tree's limbs are sagging with the weight of them.