my niece described in the latter half of her blog (you may wish to kip the first half) my wife's experiences at bYU as she understood them. It seemed pretty accurate. Read if you have time, I'm curious if any other non-members had similar experiences.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2016 11:19PM by Susan I/S.

Link?

You can include a link; the moderators will be fine with it.

For whatever reason, I'm not allowed to link my niece's blogspot account. C'est la vie. After what she read of Elder Old Dog's post, she does not wish for me to quote as much as a single of anything she's said or written anywhere at this site, and I can't say tht I blame her.

I'm a bit surprised no one has expressed any opposition to his rather ugly words.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2016 12:12AM by scmd.

Hi scmd:

1. I think you can't post blog links here.

2. Friday nights on the board are traditionally very slow. I'd say that's why comments/replies are not rolling forth on any given post.

I haven't read the blog but I certainly feel for anyone who is attacked physically or emotionally, potentially leaving lifelong scars, visible and invisible.

I agree with you that it's highly questionable, for any reason whatsoever, to side with brutal attackers, especially if youths are the victims.

I'm sorry for the reception you've received on this one and sorry that your niece now has an unfavourable view of RfM. Hopefully she will one day see a range of opinions that will give a more balanced, helpful view.

Feel free to copy the content over but it is not a place to advertise blogs.

I didn't see the post in question. On Friday nights, after spending a week teaching and supervising two dozen young children, my idea of a really great time is falling asleep on my sofa while allegedly watching TV. So now I am awake for a brief window before taking myself off to bed once again.

I do know that Alexis's blog is highly regarded on this board.

As for your wife's experiences at BYU -- not a surprise. In the past, when I've stepped off the plane in Salt Lake City, I've always felt rather blinded by the relentless sea of white. I don't think I've ever seen so many blonde, blue-eyed people in my life. It's quite a contrast from the east coast. So knowing what I know of Utah, Mormonism, and BYU, then no, it's not a surprise when a young woman who looks different, who is not Mormon, and who is on an athletic scholarship is treated as an oddity.

I don't know if your wife had much choice about where she could go to school. Perhaps BYU was the only school that made it affordable for her. I do know that I would have been miserable there. At that age I wanted a school that afforded me the maximum in personal freedom so that I could figure out who I was and what I wanted out of life. I don't know that my school was all that diverse at the time either, but the students were warm and accepting. Everyone seemed able to find his or her niche. I was happy there. I remember wearing a bikini top and cut-offs to class one hot day, and nobody blinked. Well, maybe they blinked once, but I missed it. ;)

When I went from my campus to BYU (to visit,) it felt like going from Venus to Mars.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2016 12:51AM by summer.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------
>
> I don't know if your wife had much choice about
> where she could go to school. Perhaps BYU was the
> only school that made it affordable for her. I do
> know that I would have been miserable there. At
> that age I wanted a school that afforded me the
> maximum in personal freedom so that I could figure
> out who I was and what I wanted out of life. I
> don't know that my school was all that diverse at
> the time either, but the students were warm and
> accepting. Everyone seemed able to find his or her
> niche. I was happy there. I remember wearing a
> bikini top and cut-offs to class one hot day, and
> nobody blinked. Well, maybe they blinked once, but
> I missed it. ;)
>
> When I went from my campus to BYU (to visit,) it
> felt like going from Venus to Mars.


Jillian was sixteen years old when she went off to college. She had the choice of going where mommy and daddy said she could go or of living at home and attending a IC in south Florida. She had a full-ride at BYU, which made the offer attractive to her parents, and despite being Catholic, they thought an LDS school might be a good fit because there might be less trouble for her to get into. She could have transferred out after her second year, but it would have been with student loans and no parent support.

Thanks for removing the inflammatory post. My niece still feels like she was assaulted all over again, but at least SOME ONE supported her.

But she wasn't. They're just words, inappropriate as they might be.

kolobian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But she wasn't. They're just words, inappropriate
> as they might be.


Have you ever been sexually assaulted? If so, was it a graphically violent attack, and were you a minor? If not, you cannot necessarily invoke the "sticks and stones" defense with any real authority.

Have you never read accounts of rape victims when they cooperate with prosecutors and then are cross-examined by defense attorneys in court? What the geriatric canine did was essentially the same thing when he said he sympathized with the attckers. Many of the victims say it's akin to being raped all over again. Honestly, some people here would fit right in with BYU's Honor Code patrol.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2016 10:47PM by scmd.

kolobian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But she wasn't. They're just words, inappropriate
> as they might be."


Following trauma, it's called "secondary wounding."


http://psychcentral.com/lib/the-long-half-life-of-trauma/

The negative tone of that post surprised me, and the final paragraph was indefensible. I don't blame your niece for feeling insulted and offended.

But remember that one post is not representative of RFM. FWIW, Alexis is very well regarded by the people who frequent the board. On the rare occasions that she posts here, she gets wide and consistent support. As a reminder, these older discussions are much more indicative of this forum than what just happened.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1525819
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1537373
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1577136

If Alexis can focus on these instead, I think she'll realize there are more people in her corner than she thought.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2016 11:21PM by Book of Mordor.

As a reader of Alexis' blog I find it especially ironic that a post about abuse is met with hurtful comments. I hope Alexis is comfortable reading and contributing here again someday. Knowing the pressures and accomplishments of her life, it's impressive that she is able to find time to blog at all.

All I know is that whatever it that I wrote in my geriatric haze, which at this point certainly sounds quite scurrilous, I meant it.

But there certainly was no intent on provoking any grief or discomfort on the part of your niece, the one I still don't 'like', with regard to having been the victim of an attack; I do not believe I said anything that corresponds to "sympathizing with the attackers"! The descriptions she gives make it sound horrible. I really am interesting in reviewing what I wrote in that regard, if for no other reason than to apologize, if necessary.

Since I'm now being 'tut-tutted' for something no one else can read, how about a little fairness (a concept I despise!); why not put it back up? Or not...

And how about commenting on the point I made in response to the request you made in your post? No one else seem to have taken you up on the main point of the OP, the issue of your wife's experience at the Y.

I will concede that I'm not in a position to have had your wife's experience at the Y, what with being male, not on an athletic scholarship and a church member at the time. Maybe some of the other members of this board who were female, on an athletic scholarship, and not on the rolls of the church will soon weigh in with how it went for them?

I will also opine that had you stated you were going to go be reporting to your niece, I probably would have written far less, so as to not annoy her. I am not afraid of confrontation, but I don't seek it out.

We don't have the original post, but you specifically stated "I have sympathy with her attackers." The original post was removed for good reason, so you'll have to take my word for it or not take my word for it. Blame it on your geriatric memory if you must, but that sort of thing will only go so far.

I told my niece that I had shared information concerning her blog on this site. I did not "go reporting to [my] niece except to share that the response wasn't exactly positive. A name may have been mentioned. She would have checked it our herself once she knew I had posted it, though. (Your rationale, Old Dog, is along the lines of "I would never have talked about that person behind his or her back if I'd known he or she was going to hear about what I said.")

Like or hate Alexis: I don't really care. She's a 21=year-old who is far from perfect. Most people who know her in person like her, but perhaps you would not, and that is well within your prerogative. In addition to hurting her with words of support for her attackers, however, you made yourself seem almost sub-human. Again, you can deny until your face turns purple, but I know what you wrote. So does at least one moderator. Remember that what goes around often come around, and that Karma can be a real bitch. Don't feel too surprised if some day you find yourself lying motionless at the bottom of your front porch after having been attacked, and some unsavory person walks past, saying, "I wouldn't have attacked the old geezer myself, but I sympathize with whoever did it. I don't like that guy!"

I'm finished with this except to offer thanks those who have supported Alexis with their kind words.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2016 04:10PM by Susan I/S.

Whoa! Big apology from me!

Here's what I wrote in that final paragraph:

"I imagine (pure imagination!) that if I had to spend any time being with Alexis, I'd be tempted to batter her, too. I wouldn't, like her high school assailants, but they have my sympathy."


That was truly classless. I went for a laugh and it was very out of line. I didn't know it was a rape, but that is no excuse; I shouldn't have written it.

I'm sorry.

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whoa! Big apology from me!
>
> Here's what I wrote in that final paragraph:
>
> "I imagine (pure imagination!) that if I had to
> spend any time being with Alexis, I'd be tempted
> to batter her, too. I wouldn't, like her high
> school assailants, but they have my sympathy."
>
>
> That was truly classless. I went for a laugh and
> it was very out of line. I didn't know it was a
> rape, but that is no excuse; I shouldn't have
> written it.
>
> I'm sorry.


Apology accepted.

I often read Alexis's blog and find it thought-provoking and frequently very funny. I don't comment because she doesn't know me and I have nothing of interest to add, but please send her my love and support.

I have two slightly older daughters of whom I'm very proud, but it was easy for them because they weren't born into a mindf*ck religion. I'd be very proud of Alexis too if she were my daughter. I'm sure she'll turn into a very fine young woman.

All the best to her.

Tom in Paris



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2016 02:43AM by Soft Machine.

Soft Machine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I often read Alexis's blog and find it
> thought-provoking and frequently very funny. I
> don't comment because she doesn't know me and I
> have nothing of interest to add, but please send
> her my love and support.
>
> I have two slightly older daughters of whom I'm
> very proud, but it was easy for them because they
> weren't born into a mindf*ck religion. I'd be
> very proud of Alexis too if she were my daughter.
> I'm sure she'll turn into a very fine young
> woman.
>
> All the best to her.
>
> Tom in Paris

alexis says thanks.