I was sad today and walked over to a neighbors. She's a mother with four little children. And we talk a little bit. But, I could tell she was angry and didn't enjoy it when I told her Remind me not to try to talk to a mormon woman about reality. I told a neighbor that I wish I had not given up on my career. I explained the hardships it had caused me and was causing me now. As I find other women who have purchased their own homes and raised their children at the same time. And who have secure futures.
And she was trying to tell me I needed to stay home with my child when I did. And I was telling her that actually my son may have been better off with a mother who worked, could provide more of the medical and therapy he needed, and that I couldn't figure out how to do. I told her now I see that many of the working women I know, have some of the most accomplished children. They are confident, and capable. The girls see how a mother can function and be independent.
Well, guess that I'm in the dog house. But, sorry...keeping women strong, and capable creates better mothers in my world! Not taking away their power, making them dependent and leaving them vulnerable for the future, is important!
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. The church may say it doesn't want women to work, but it certainly wants 10% of their income if they do, and it doesn't want to support women & children if hubby leaves and they have to fend for themselves.
I had a difficult time being a SAHM so got a part time job and I'm still doing that job some almost 30 years later. I work at home now. I raised my kids by having 2 of these jobs, but still at home. My son sees me as doing really well, my daughter sees me as ? I have a great job, not much education. I do medical transcription and I have earned good money all along. I only have to work part time now. My kids never went without. I may have.
My daughter is accomplished. My son is "not," though anyone would tell you he is the most intelligent (including his sister).
My mother didn't work and all her children are accomplished and got there through hard work. We were taught to work on the farm and at home. My brother only had a GED and he is the most accomplished of all of us. My mother worked harder than most people I know. She worked on the farm and raised 6 kids, fixed meals, sewed our clothing, etc.
Everyone has different attitudes towards this. I don't think only one is correct. It depends on the person.
My mother has tremendous artistic talent that has gone almost entirely to waste. Even as a TBM teen, I thought she was someone who needed her own career; not having it made her depressed. Her depression weighed on her children like iron. It was bad for all of us.
Another issue with not working.... you don't accumulate any social security benefit.
So, you're 100% dependent on your spouse in retirement as well.
Personally, that would make me very nervous. I think relationships are better when there is equal footing. When one person is making all the money, it tends to shift the power towards the bread-winner.
I tried to be a dependent wife for awhile, and I just couldn't do it. I always felt better when I was making my own money.
I think every woman, SAHM or working woman, need important work in their lives besides their family. (And yes, I stole this from Betty Friedan).
It could be paid work, it could be charity work, it could be anything they are passionate about. But I don't think any woman should be completely defined by their motherhood, or their relationship to a man. They need a part of themselves that exists independent of those relationships. Partly because those relationships change: kids grow up and leave, spouses divorce, or even die. But even if those relationships last for the rest of their lives, I just think a person needs a sense of competence and worth, all by themselves.
I think every able adult should be ABLE to support themselves and their family, should the need arise. And the only way to be able to do that is to keep up marketable skills.
Just a comment on working so you'll have social security, yes, that's a good idea. But I recently found out that if you are divorced and retirement age, you may be eligible to collect social security on your ex's earnings, even if you've been divorced for a very long time. It won't affect what THEY collect, as far as I know. Just something to keep in mind for women who have been SAHMs and then ended up divorced.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2016 02:22AM by imaworkinonit.
and she did work off and on. I hated it when I went to daycare for one month when she would work when they used to re-license all cars in March in Utah.
My mother took classes in painting and she also wrote poetry. She quilted and used to spend a lot of time with her friends and mother who were avid quilters. I have several of her paintings hanging in my home. Her poetry is a treasure to all of us. She never tried to publish it. It was too personal to her.
She took care of EVERYONE. Her parents were deaf and she was the oldest child. She was born an adult. Her mother was her best friend and the most significant relationship she ever had.
Her daughters have all HAD to work because we'd go nuts otherwise (though 2 of us are single mothers). I did get to stay home when my kids were little, but I worked part time while my husband was home in the evenings. It was good for the kids and for him (and for me).
some of the things that some men tried to pull, to keep their wives from getting benefits that they were entitled to.
One guy got totally pissed off that he and his wife were issued separate checks (based on his work.) He insisted that HER check be combined with HIS, since he did all the work. We had to tell him, "Sorry, Buddy, but this is how it works."
Sometimes men who have been married before don't want to list former wives on their applications, once they realize that the purpose of this is to check and see if the ex-wife might be eligible too. Or if an ex-wife hears that Himself is getting SS, applies for her share, and Himself gets a letter saying the ex Mrs. Himself is now getting a check based on his earnings, he may come screaming into the office and demand that payment be stopped. You would not believe how awful they could be.
It was a real education.
As for the Mormon Church, I guess I was lucky. I was a divorced single mother who HAD to work, in order to survive. Nobody ever said anything about that.
Every woman or man should think for themselves, gather information from multiple sources, and consider carefully the path they want to follow as well as the possible consequences of their choices, both short term and long term.
Just listening to the lds church and toeing their line because....?
Well, I can't think of one good reason to follow what they say.
I am not a SAHM, and never would be. It is very important to me that I am able to support myself and the kids should something happen to dh. I actually earn much more that he does. I also think that now working creates a power imbalance in most relationships that would make me very uncomfortable. But I am me, I am not all women.
That said, your friend with the four little kids probably took this as a personal attack and the mommy wars never end well.
I grew up with a Mormon working mother in a time when most married women with children didn't work, especially in the church. It wasn't all that it is cracked up to be. My mother was rarely home and when she was home, the stress and demands of work and home life made her a screaming banshee. I was afraid of her. Most of the housework and babysitting of younger siblings was dumped on me. I was never able to participate in any extracurricular activities at school because I had responsibilities at home. People at church made snide remarks about my mother. I was told by one church friend that her parents thought I was a bad influence because my mom worked. I hated that my mom worked.
Because of my experience as a child, I chose to be a SAHM when my children came along. That, too, isn't all that it's cracked up to be. Being a SAHM can be lonely, monotonous work. I knew the minute that my first baby was placed in my arms that I wanted to be her primary caregiver. But even if I hadn't felt that, the expensive cost of childcare may have made that decision for me. My salary probably would have been absorbed in childcare costs.
As much as I have loved spending so much time with my children, I wonder all the time if I made the right decision to basically give up the ability to provide for myself.
There is a balance between work and motherhood in there somewhere. Many women have found a balance. But for many others, it seems like in order to to either job well, they feel they must choose one or the other.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2016 12:12PM by want2bx.
I suppose that a lot depends on the person. My mom was a stay at home mom for God. And I wonder why she bothered to stay at home at all. She hated it! She was miserable! She did not enjoy raising children and in fact, at one point, both my brother and sister ended up living with Grandma under some false pretense. I did not get such an escape! It was a horrible experience! She spent days on the phone talking to women who would all later report that they were her best friend. No. They were one of many entertainers for her. And to interrupt her phone calls with a problem or question was to be raged at for an hour and then given the silent treatment for days.
She did not want to be bothered with me and would not allow me to even participate in school band, for example, if it would bother her. She didn't want to provide a ride. She wanted her children to sit and watch television, have no life, no normal developmental experiences and no hope for normal teen life with a parent who was supportive.
Finally, when she was older, she got a part time job! She enjoyed it a great deal! Too bad that she hadn't discovered this sooner! She was a miserable parent!
For many women there can only be a balance between work and motherhood if there is family support. If husband is not on board with wife working she gets substandard cooperation and the kids suffer. My husband said he was fine with the working, but things went to hell whenever I was gone, and getting the car out of the ditch every time I got home was really taxing. It really depends on so many variables.
I think it is criminal to expect every YM to breed. It is just not in the make up of some women to be mothers and people should be able to choose the course of their lives.
My mom worked during my childhood on and off. I don't remember her as much a SAHM as a working mother.
My dad worked construction during those early years. So mom's jobs would provide stability for our growing family when his jobs were more seasonal and not long term.
She was a frustrated actress, who went to Westminster College in SLC her first year to study English/drama. Then NYC her second on a full scholarship to immerse herself in the Method Acting school that was all the rage at the time for young actors. By the time she met my dad she was only 20, and put her acting career on hold for like ever.
She would say many years later if she had it to do over again she'd have stuck it out in NYC because if she'd known at 20 what it took her a lifetime to realize she believed she would have succeeded despite not conforming to the enormous pressure to be a sexpot.
Her children were her greatest life blessings she would tell us children in her later years. That did come as sort of a surprise because she really wasn't all that maternal or nurturing. She loved having babies. Didn't know how to deal with us as we grew up - she became a stranger to her own children. That was sad to watch. Her being an actress may have helped compensate for a lack of identity as a teenager and young woman, and into adulthood. The method acting she studied in college was used in radio, stage productions, mom was a speech and drama teacher occasionally as she substituted at our local high school, and she was stake drama director for several years. She *lived* the method acting at home however.
That was hell for us as kids. Mom's frustrated acting career was taken out on dad and on us children. :(
As for me I've just always worked since high school. I don't know how to be without being self-sufficient. I was a single mom with two babies in tow as a young LDS newly divorcee starting out on my own fresh out of college. If not for my college degree I wouldn't have gotten the subsequent jobs I've held since college. But they aren't really all that specialized.
Degrees are overrated but necessary unless you go into a vocation. There's many vocations where you can do much better than a college degree. It's all in where your interests lie. If I were to be starting over again I'd reconsider a teaching degree. Then I would've had more time with my children when they were growing, especially the summer vacations and more afternoons and evenings with my family.
I was always with my children when I wasn't working. They were my priority. I didn't party, go to bars, or hang out with the girls. My children were my best buddies during their growing up years. I miss those days because now they're grown and as or more independent than I was at their ages. The years flew by too quickly.
I'm glad I didn't need to rely on a man to support me. If I'd been in a good marriage, with a supportive husband I might've had a different handle on that. As it is I will be self supporting for the rest of my life, and that's alright by me.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2016 10:35AM by Amyjo.