To be honest, one of the reasons I stayed as long as I did before investigating the historical inaccuracies and fallacies of the church, was because of the many times my prayers had been answered as a practicing (and born and raised) LDS.

I've witnessed divine intervention in my own life, and lives of my loved ones. Have had specific answers to prayers like say for direction in my life, and healings.

Of course it has been years since I've left Mormonism. I have found since leaving I am still a believer in the power of prayer and my faith in an unseen power that hears prayers and cares for us beyond human understanding has only increased since I've left the 'morg.'

I realize there are those here who've said they never had their prayers answered. For them it was a 'no brainer' not to believe in something.

For me it has shaped and molded my life, who I've been, who I am, and where I'm going.

Which is again, why I stayed a believer in Mormonism for longer than I may have otherwise.

Whenever my TBM DW and I have had conversations about Mormonism, particularly my lack of faith, answered prayers is her go-to justification for her belief in Mormonism. She, too, can list numerous instances where her prayers had been answered, or that somebody was looking out for her.

However, some of her examples would include answered prayers since we were married a little over three years ago. What she called answered prayers, I would call the natural result of preparation and determination, as well as, being attuned to opportunities as they present themselves...usually as a result of the aforementioned preparation and determination.

I liken it to the ol' axiom, "The harder I work, the luckier I get."

I've had moments like maybe your wife has, that answers to prayers don't necessarily come in the form of hard work or preparation. Sometimes they just materialize from the astral world our prayers weave their way into.

Some such divinations are unexplained but for the aspect of prayer and pondering after supplications are made. There is a whole other realm that we occasionally may glimpse by keeping our hearts and minds open to that possibility.

I don't understand those who go through life after having tried and not finding or getting answers to prayers. There was a period in my adolescence I went agnostic. It was answered prayer that brought me back from my lack of faith and disbelief.

Confusing that with the Mormon religion was out of deference to it being my primary frame of reference I'd had up to that point in my young life. Being able to weigh in on the historical inaccuracies and false teachings of Mormon doctrine wouldn't happen until I was much older from there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2016 04:13PM by Amyjo.

http://dreamindemon.com/community/threads/mariah-walton-wants-her-faith-healer-parents-to-be-prosecuted-for-life-long-disability.83543/

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/13/followers-of-christ-idaho-religious-sect-child-mortality-refusing-medical-help#img-1

I wish they could prosecute the parents. However, Idaho is one of the few states that allow religious healings without fear of prosecution.

This woman's parents belonged to a fringe cult offshoot from the Mormon mainstream, per some of the articles cited.

Even most Mormon families would take their children to get the best medical attention when needed. The ones I knew were pro-active as parents. I know I was. Still am.

It is a crime not to care for the children these people were given. Regardless of the laws on the books. What rights to parents have that preempt the rights of the health of their offspring? I'm surprised Idaho is still in the Dark Ages on this.

It's a conservative state, and backwards in some respects because of Mormonism. But this defies all logic.

From news article cited, "Some of those enjoying legal protection are fringe Mormon families like Mariah’s, many of whom live in the state’s north. But a large number of children have died in southern Idaho, near Boise, in families belonging to a reclusive, Pentecostal faith-healing sect called the Followers of Christ.

In Canyon County, just west of the capital, the sect’s Peaceful Valley cemetery is full of graves marking the deaths of children who lived a day, a week, a month. Last year, a taskforce set up by Idaho governor Butch Otter estimated that the child mortality rate for the Followers of Christ between 2002 and 2011 was 10 times that of Idaho as a whole."

Ugh. I went to college as an undergrad in both communities (north Idaho and Boise,) and while an active TBM. It wasn't like that at ALL when I lived there in the 1980's. This whole fringe movement didn't take off according to this article until sometime during the 90's. How tragic for the children.

They didn't have a chance. :(

I still pray but they are fairly brief and normally mostly to show gratitude.

I attempt to prevent sickness or injury through meditation. I also now attempt to heal myself through meditation but would also treat something medically to some extent.

So although I still believe in prayer I believe I can and should try to accomplish many things I would normally pray about through meditation.

What percentage of a person's prayers need to be answered for that person to feel they deserve to be listed somewhere on the scale of "I must be important..."?

And in the astral scheme of things, what does it mean that 6 million Jews, for instance, didn't get ANY prayers answered between 1939 and 1945. I am referring to those who died at the hands of the thousand year Reich.

Is it just one of those astral things, where ya just shrug your astral shoulders and say, '...it sucked to be them; sure glad I'm me...'?

I guess it boils down to "why are you so special?" Not that I expect there to be an available astral explanation. I can dig it that sometimes the woo just doesn't come with instructions.

It's all woo woo.... people say their prayers were answered by

GHAWD, while little children die each day from starvation, or

while they get molested or beaten to death. I guess the Woo Woo's

really believe that those that died or had some life altering

misfortune were'nt deserving of an answer to prayers?

WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP. People believe what ever they want to

believe based on nothing more than their wishes and dreams.

Oh woo freakin Woo.

Strange... Prayer never worked in my life. I mean, I was never one of those people who prayed to be able to find their car keys or pass a test. No, I only prayed about the big stuff, like help dealing with depression and anxiety, or to be "saved" from bullying. I even prayed to find a nice girlfriend. But none of those "prayers" were ever answered, unless you seriously want to count silence and inaction as an answer, which I see as a total cop-out.

I struggled very much with depression and anxiety -- until I left the church and decided to live on my own terms, whereupon I realized that the church itself was the source of many of those negative feelings. The bullying never let up -- in fact my fellow "deacons" joined in, so not even church was a "safe place" for me; I very nearly killed myself at the tender age of 13. I never found a girlfriend because the church's idiotic perfectionism contributed greatly to my acute social phobia.

It's fantastic that prayer worked for you, seriously. But yes, for some of us it NEVER worked. And one then has to wonder, why does God apparently play favorites? I was a picture-perfect Mormon boy back in the day, so careful to commit no sins at all, so it couldn't have been a matter of "worthiness."

You call it prayer; I call it luck, or coincidence. Certainly not the work of some all-powerful being. More like a fickle and spiteful being.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2016 03:03AM by oneinbillions.

I prayed as a young LDS woman to guide me to whoever my true love was to be. Then I dreamt of him one night before we met for real. In my dream we were on our third honeymoon. We were standing at an airport terminal waiting to board our plane right before us with the stairs and all, and he was looking down at me wearing a beret cap, with glistening blonde hair against a night sky, and speaking in a bass voice.

I had never seen or heard this man before in my life, so I wondered all the next day why I would dream about someone I didn't know from Adam? Later that evening I went to my first ever meeting as a Big Sister, and there he was. He got up to announce the guest speaker for that evening as he was on the Board of Volunteers. I was dumbstruck.

When we dated I dreamt the night before of his taking me out on a date, and then it happened.

I dreamt of his dying in the months before he did, without any warning.

After he died but before I knew he was deceased I dreamt we were married in heaven. I've seen his spirit appear to me during my first marriage after he was deceased, asking me why was I married to that man who was all wrong for me?

He was a never Mo. Born and raised Presbyterian, educated as a scientist. He was a foster dad at the time of his death which came as a shock to all who knew and loved him. He was only 29 when he died. But his spirit lives on.

So was it because I prayed about meeting my true love that I was given these dreams about our meeting, only to meet and then he died before we were ever married or had our forever family together?

All I can say about that is there is a life beyond this one, and it isn't a Mormon heaven, but there is something we will go to when this life is over. And if it's one eternal round we are on, who are we to say?

My dream of our being on a third honeymoon marked a 'third beginning.' Whether that means reincarnation is what I've wondered about since then. He and I knew each other in previous lifetime or lifetimes. And we were soulmates before this one. And we'll be soulmates again.

Since he died (I was all of 22,) I asked God in prayer if he was the one for me, why then was he taken away suddenly without my precognitive dream of our marriage coming to fruition?

The answer that came to me as I was pondering my prayer was, "You will not have to seek, for love will find you."

I was 23 then. Sometimes we have to die to ourselves to be born again. We have no more say in the timing of our birth than we do in our leaving this world. It doesn't mean we are forgotten or ignored IMO. It just means we are here for a short while. And what we take with us when we go is what we've learned as our souls march on.

I now see our lives as some kind of a school. We are here to learn, grow and develop. Not into gods or goddesses. But as spirit souls on an endless search for knowledge and wisdom.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2016 07:58AM by Amyjo.

One other reason I stayed with the church for as long as I did was because of bishops and other leaders telling me since this person who died while very young, that he and I could be sealed by proxy in the LDS temple during my lifetime.

One of my last ward bishops told me it can be arranged to be both married and sealed to someone who's already passed on, while I am living.

It's been done before, in other words. One of my brothers had a neighbor who married a man who'd died in his 20's during the last world war. Decades later she was sealed in proxy to him for time and all eternity. She had never married up until she was sealed by proxy to her beloved, though long ago deceased.

So it was another reason I stayed in rather than finding my way out sooner than I did. I figured it was God's will for me to do that (be sealed in proxy,) to that person who died years before.

Weird, I know. But that's what they believe ie, church leaders and practice are such eternal anointings.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2016 02:21PM by Amyjo.

I believe my father has similar reasons for staying in the church. He's never told me the whole story but hinted at it several times. He was a convert somewhere around 20. Before then, he was a terrible alcoholic with no direction in life. He hints at a time at a gas station, when someone -- apparently some Mormon -- came up to him and told him EXACTLY how his life would go. And apparently it did. I guess this is his "proof" of prayer and prophecy.

I still call it coincidence, albeit an incredible one. In his case, I think it was also something of a self-fulfilling deal; he heard it and wanted it, so he made it happen. It's harder to say in your case, since that really does sound extraordinary... But again I can't fathom a "god" or whatever else that would answer one person's prayers and not another's. Stories like yours always made me feel like shit in the Church, because why wouldn't God ever help or at least comfort me if he would do so much for others? Was I "damned" from the start or something?

A large part of my depression stemmed from that feeling that God simply hated me -- that must have been the reason that he never helped me at all, or answered my prayers. I became convinced that I was destined for failure on an eternal scale no matter what. And what, then, is the point in living? If we accept the omniscience of such a being, what's the point in trying at all? Such a quality inherently precludes free will, because he MUST know beforehand exactly what will happen. He must have known that he was damning some people when he created them with traits like a critical mind or a brain that just couldn't "connect" spiritually. And I could never accept that paradox. Far more likely that there simply is no god, and people who feel that their "prayers" have been answered are simply incredibly lucky or perhaps even somehow "in tune" with the ebb and flow of cause and effect, somehow sensitive to those possibilities and chances.

You have no idea what a life sentence it is to have the one you *thought* was yours for this life to be taken away from me, only to have to wait until *eternity* to meet up again.

I was 20 years old when I dreamt of Bill the night before we met in real life. Barely two years from then he was taken away, and I've pretty much been alone ever since.

It has been like a prison sentence knowing that if he was *the one* then no one else has yet been able to take his place. And to be haunted by him &/or his memory? Of what might have been had he lived? My life has been on hold since he died, in other words.

Granted, I did marry, and twice. Both to wrong men for me, whom were not a match made in heaven. I am most thankful for the children I had by my second marriage. They were my compensation for not having a mate to share my life with. My children were my greatest blessings in this life.

My ex-husbands I was better off without. One of my children inherited a Borderline Personality Disorder shared by her father. So I've lost her to that disorder since she's grown up, and disappeared from my life like her father disappeared from her parents lives and then my childrens when they were babies.

My life has not been an easy one. Why I've had some direction, is maybe one reason I've held onto my faith after Mormonism. I know there's something. I just wish we were able to know more than we're given. We are "born innocent" like Sarah McLaughlin sings. Sometimes I wonder whether I'm paying for the sins of my parents, or for something I may have done or failed to do in a previous lifetime?

I try not to lament though. As a Jew nowadays I'm taught we are to give thanks in all of our circumstances, even when we don't understand the whys or wherefores. Life has its shares of ups and downs, that's for sure.

Amyjo, so are you actually out of the church or still a believer?

I've been out for over ten years now and officially resigned the last time I left. Not going back. I still have many family and relatives who are "in." And many cousins and one brother who have left, like me.

Just sharing some experiences that may have kept me there longer than if I hadn't had them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2016 05:52PM by Amyjo.

I loved reading this thread, Amyjo. You have had an interesting life. I too have had some spiritual manifestations happen in my life. Or at least I thought they were. I am trying to go through my life and siphon them out and really think where my head was at at that time to see if there was a correlation to me thinking these "miracles" into fruition on my own.

One example would be that I saw my infant son in a dream almost two years to the day before I had him. I recorded in my journal that I saw him and called him by name. Then I forgot all about what I had written. After he was born I was going back through my journals and found that passage and then all of the sudden I remembered the dream in detail and he was indeed the baby in the dream and I had named him Nathan, which was also the name of the baby in the dream.

I also had a dream or vision of a man I had known only online. He was going elk hunting for the weekend and when he got back he told me the exact thing happened to him that I saw in a vision. Basically that a sudden snowstorm came up and he had to build a shelter with pine branches and he decided to stay in the shelter four hours before heading out and he really wrestled with that decision.

I have been leaning toward the idea of energy and the unseen strength of it, which would include the power to read minds, etc.. I think we are beings of light and energy as is all life. How long that energy lasts and where it goes ...who knows?

Personally, after this life I would like to meet up not just with Jesus, but with Buddha, Gandhi, Mother Theresa, and Nikola Tesla for that matter...There is just too much to learn from different and loving perspectives. I guess I'm turning into one of those "Coexist" people because I honestly believe that is logical in my mind.

That is uncanny to dream about someone then hear that he was in a similar situation as you'd just dreamt about. Dreaming about your baby years before he was born was not coincidence.

Astral physics is a term used to describe when we receive communications from the unseen world to alert us, give us warnings, or to guide us.

My daughter has been missing for several years, by her own volition. One night this past February both my son and I had pretty much the exact same dream about her, on opposite sides of the world. He called me later in the day to share his dream with me. I hadn't shared mine with him until then. They were almost identical, including details.

If there wasn't something cosmic about that, don't know what is.

I have just started looking into the astral world. Since starting meditation at the end of last year I had an astral plane experience just last month. I didn't even realize what was happening and instead of telling my highly logical BF I went to Google first and low and behold it's a real thing.

You are really in tune to some wonderful vibes. Amazing dream shared by both you and your son! Did any resolutions or answers come of it?

Forgetting Abigail Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have just started looking into the astral world.
> Since starting meditation at the end of last year
> I had an astral plane experience just last month.
> I didn't even realize what was happening and
> instead of telling my highly logical BF I went to
> Google first and low and behold it's a real thing.
>


Holy crap! Google does confirm the existence of the Astral World, aka Astral Plane!!! (I wonder of Astral Plain works, too? ...or Astral Meadows...)

"The astral plane, also called the astral world, is a plane of existence postulated by classical (particularly neo-Platonic), medieval, oriental and esoteric philosophies and mystery religions."

https://www.google.com/search?q=astral+plane&rlz=1CAACAO_enUS686US688&oq=astral+plane&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.2993j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8



Live and learn!!

Who the hell believes in the astral plane? who made that up?

Hahahhahahahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahhaha whoever made it

up, thank you . That was my laugh of the day.

I can't believe anyone takes that seriously.

Well, Aristotle and Plato are mentioned in some of the literature I have read and I also read that it is scientifically possible and that the connection just hasn't been made yet. Just because we can't see something with our physical eyes doesn't mean it isn't possible. Sound and light waves for example. Nikola Tesla, one of the greatest physicists said, “If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration.”

+10,000

Tesla was a visionary for his times, plus physicist. Here's some of his predictions that came to pass,

http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2016/04/nikola-teslas-amazing-predictions-for-the-21st-century/

Okay, you got me there... It's in print, thus it's either true, or it could be true, and certainly there is no proof that it's not true and the opposite of 'not true' is TRUE!

Was this before or after Tesla went insane and started looking for a perpetual motion machine?

No, not really. It raised more questions than there were answers.

It was a message of some kind. It made me reach out to a rabbi who she'll periodically get in touch with to let me know how she's doing. And I said an earnest prayer for her more than I usually do, imploring God to take care of her.

After I said that prayer I opened my bible to the first page it came to was about Jesus raising the daughter from the dead and healing the woman who touched the hem of his garment.

Strange but it was in that instant following my opening the bible to whatever scripture was in front of me and the prayer invoked a sense of calmness and peace washed over me, reassuring me that she was alright wherever she was/is.

It's just hard not having actual confirmation or closure as to whether she's really doing alright or not.

It was easier when they were little. Could hold em, help them do their homework. Knew where they were when I turned out the lights each night because I tucked them in when they went to bed. Now it's like "No Man's Land," since they sprouted wings and flew away!

You can only do so much, mama. Stay positive. I'll send out a prayer for you and your situation. :o)

Thank you so very much for your thoughtfulness and kindness! That would be most welcome.

:)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2016 08:27AM by Amyjo.

In our 'natural state' we are beings of light and energy and eternal. Not sexual except when reincarnating so you can forget all that 'one soul mate for eternity' idea. I have seen past lives where I was married to one of my granddaughters and my wife was my mother in 2 past lives I have had glimpses of.

As far a 'astral planes' my experience is very limited there ---- been to a few places spirit world and not sure if other was a different plane or a 'alien' world where I incarnated at one time.

You are making good progress into finding out whatever you want to know. Keep meditating and try to contact your spirit guide(s).

If you want to know the answer to something ask them to direct to you the answer or provide it in a dream, etc.

I have had a large number of dreams, visions, premonitions come true.

I continue to get a lot of help from my guides ----- of course my life is fairly average so over time the help is not always earth shaking. However, I have been warned of danger a number of times and tried to go against it thinking I could be 'careful' however, not careful enough I got in an accident in the exact spot I was shown in a premonition. Next time I will try avoiding any area shown to me in a premonition. Fortunately, my life is not in danger that much so I only rarely get these type of visions.

Good luck on your journey!

spiritist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In our 'natural state' we are beings of light and
> energy and eternal. Not sexual except when
> reincarnating so you can forget all that 'one soul
> mate for eternity' idea. I have seen past lives
> where I was married to one of my granddaughters
> and my wife was my mother in 2 past lives I have
> had glimpses of.

That isn't really for me to say. What you describe may be possible, but I don't have anymore proof of that than we are reincarnated. Judaism teaches in the possibility of reincarnation because there are lessons we may need to learn that aren't possible in one lifetime. It also teaches there are more soulmates than one for each person.

Abraham Lincoln lost his first love who died when they were both very young, of some kind of infection - maybe pneumonia, not sure. When he met Mary Todd she turned his fortunes around, but they were a case of opposites attracting. She was high strung, he was low key. She also went insane after losing him and two of their children (insane by the definitions of her day and age.) My guess is she was severely depressed and didn't have modern medicine or psychotherapy to help her cope and recover from her losses.

Your idea of being married to one of your granddaughters and your wife was your mother sound strange to me. Reminds of Robert Heinlein's sci-fi writings where he would illustrate the genealogy of different characters in his space travel stories as being related in various ways like you describe. I've always been leary of past lives regression because of false memories through hypnotism or how you describe as meditation. I just don't find that realistic or a practical guide. I'm not saying that isn't so. I'm just not comfortable with the idea, maybe because it suggests incestuous relations between inter-generational family members - and that is what I find disturbing.

> As far a 'astral planes' my experience is very
> limited there ---- been to a few places spirit
> world and not sure if other was a different plane
> or a 'alien' world where I incarnated at one time.

Our spirit guides come from astral planes to commune with us. I honestly haven't made any effort to go there. :D

>
> You are making good progress into finding out
> whatever you want to know. Keep meditating and
> try to contact your spirit guide(s).

> If you want to know the answer to something ask
> them to direct to you the answer or provide it in
> a dream, etc.

My contact is through prayer, mostly. There've been times I've had dreams and warnings without praying for signs or guidance. I just chalk it up to whoever is watching over us takes a personal interest sometimes. I don't pray for precognitive dreams, they just happen the times that they have. My TBM grandmother would get visionary dreams for her family. It may be hereditary. She was very spiritual.

>
> I have had a large number of dreams, visions,
> premonitions come true.
>
> I continue to get a lot of help from my guides
> ----- of course my life is fairly average so over
> time the help is not always earth shaking.
> However, I have been warned of danger a number of
> times and tried to go against it thinking I could
> be 'careful' however, not careful enough I got in
> an accident in the exact spot I was shown in a
> premonition. Next time I will try avoiding any
> area shown to me in a premonition. Fortunately, my
> life is not in danger that much so I only rarely
> get these type of visions.
>
> Good luck on your journey!

I've had these kinds of warnings for both my family and myself. I'm glad I listen to them too!

Thanks! :)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2016 12:45PM by Amyjo.

All things considered, it sounds to me like you are extremely 'well-adjusted'!

All things considered, it sound to me as though you are extremely 'well-adjusted'!

Thanks Cinda. I don't know why I should be. I've questioned my own sanity on more than one occasion.

Trying to hold it together may be what keeps me from falling apart.

:D