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Posted by: Darren Steers ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 11:45AM

I first came across RfM back in about 2002-03. I was deep in my amateur internet apologetics phase of life.

I was known as the resident god botherer on a couple of secular (motorbikes mostly) discussion forums. I regularly discussed religion on those forums in the off topic areas. I enjoyed it, and the other posters had fun with it too. Some of the questions and points they raised left me with no option but to bear my testimony and claim that we'd find out the answers in the next life. Trying to defend a literal global flood that occurred not that long ago was quite a challenge.

Anyway I was also curious about some of the other problems that the critics of the church were claiming about the church. I figured I could use my 'immense' intellect to show how the church was right, and the silly non-believers were wrong. At this point I'm still under the impression that anti-Mormon stuff was mostly lies, quotes taken out of context, and outrageous exaggerations.

My Google search brought me to a couple of NOM sights, and of course RfM was also on that list of search results.

I had a look at the NOM sites, I quite liked them. The people were polite, they discussed the issues in ways that tried to make sense of them in a modern world, with modern information. They helped to lighten to load on my shelf, nothing was taken off my shelf, but I felt the load was a little lighter.

I also visited RfM.
Holy Shit! The posters were fucking angry, they wouldn't tolerate any discussion that was even slightly apologetic. I did not like RfM at all. It didn't seem to be the kind of place to find answers. The stuff that they would say was clearly wrong - how could it be true?

The posters were bloody crazy, they called the church a cult! How can a church that has Christ as its focus be a fucking Cult!
How can a church that has such a strong family first attitude be a bloody Cult!
You seemed to me like the kind of people that would embrace something like "The God Makers". Like you'd actually think that was good at debunking Mormonism!


Luckily, those scary posters must have moved on. Now RfM is dominated by smart, intelligent, witty, knowledgeable, caring, and friendly people. That's right, I haven't changed, it must be RfM. ;o)

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Posted by: Shummy ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 11:56AM

Well you are right about the raucous atmosphere back then. The mods certainly had their hands full. I gotta thank them for skilfully holding things together and making the website a safe refuge for newcomers.

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Posted by: GregS ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 12:01PM

I don't know what the board was like before a year ago, which is when I first started lurking after two years of research elsewhere; but I can guarantee that it would scare my TBM DW's hair white were she to stumble upon it. Tamer sites, like MormonThink and even The Essays, are enough to make her physically ill.

Me; I like a good, healthy discussion...provided participants are willing and able to support what they say with facts and logic. The fact that things get a little impassioned is evidence of how deeply members (both current and ex) are affected by TSCC.

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Posted by: gemini ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 12:01PM

Whatever happened to some guy who went by the screen name that was Colonel something? He seemed like one of the most scary ones.

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Posted by: randyj ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 02:08PM

"Whatever happened to some guy who went by the screen name that was Colonel something?"

Are you referring to Colonel Angus?

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Posted by: saucie ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 08:37PM

gemini Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whatever happened to some guy who went by the
> screen name that was Colonel something? He seemed
> like one of the most scary ones.


He was a homophobic bigot. He was always picking on TLC
and Shakjula ... he finally got kicked out of RFM. We were so
glad.

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Posted by: Susan I/S ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 08:57PM

HE DIED.

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Posted by: Shummy ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 12:07PM

Col Thomas Kane.Thanks to Cabbie and a few others he was finally roadkilled.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 02:01PM

Cabdriver Confession: Steve Benson and TLC were my Outer Darkness mission comps on that operation...

Way I hear it, the Colonel finally saw the light and is too embarrassed to come back here and tell us how much he enjoys the gay lifestyle in San Francisco...

And a note to "Scotslander" (BTW, I'm doing a history project on my g-g-grandfather who came to Zion from the Orkney Islands): It couldn't be because your perceptions have changed, now could it?

Of course not...

BTW, I sent another fellow of Scottish descent here, Robert Kirby. He noted the conversations were pretty close to the stuff he received regularly in his mailbox...

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Posted by: Darren Steers ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 02:53PM

SL Cabbie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> And a note to "Scotslander" (BTW, I'm doing a
> history project on my g-g-grandfather who came to
> Zion from the Orkney Islands): It couldn't be
> because your perceptions have changed, now could
> it?
>
> Of course not...
>

Of course my perceptions haven't changed. ;o)

I used to really enjoy the NOM forums,I thought they provided a thoughtful approach to dealing with the church problems. Now I can't stand them. I can't even read through a single thread because I see the delusion and the desperate attempts to call a turd a lovely, sweet delicious piece of candy.

There are posters here that are angry, but it took me a few years (away from LDS forums of any type, for and against) to really understand why, and that they were justified.

I like the honesty and the obsession with facts and data here on RfM. I was scared of honest truth back in 2002/3. I was looking to find only the "truth" that was convenient, "truth" that kept me feeling I was more special than others. RfM has never shied away from calling B.S. and it was doing it in such a direct manner that it scared me away.

I had to grow as a person to feel safe here.

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Posted by: ^ ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 05:38PM

"We Walk with Giants"?: An appreciative reply to our fellow colleage Cabbie

(posted by Steve Benson, RfM, 8 June 2014)

It was recently brought to my attention that SLCabbie had put up an eye-catching post about "giants" strolling among us. In a previous thread, he wrote:

"It's My Fault... And Steve Benson's and Tom Clark's . . . and a whole lot of others who were here around a dozen years ago.

"We are all proud 'sponsors' of RFM's 'LGBT friendly certification.'”

"I'm terrified I'll leave someone out (having just stumbled in from a shift), but three remarkable individuals who left us include [RfMmers] Kathy Worthington, her partner Sara Hamblin, and FlattopSF.

"I also remember [former RfM posters] Shakula (a nevermo), Aussie John, and Sideon.

"Maybe [Rfm poster] WCG can chime in with some of the others who also took courageous positions.

"The board was not nearly as gay-friendly as it is now (are you suggesting it shouldn't be? There's a lot more here to put TBM noses out of joint than someone's sexual orientation), and there was one particular homophobic sort who posted as 'Col. Thomas Kane.' He was especially offensive, and a number of the gay posters took delight in baiting him every time he tossed in a gay slur.

"He made the mistake of crossing me (I'd allied myself with the 'gay side,' suggesting to anyone that if they had any issues in that area, they should drive taxi for a while; they might acquire some prejudices, but not in that area. After waitresses/food servers, gays are my favorite fares, and I wasn't gentle when he came up short on my fact checking on his racist claims involving our third U.S. President, Thomas Jefferson and his black mistress, Sally Heming.

"There were, indeed, a number of obvious TBM trolls who'd been egging Kane on, and I think ADMIN managed to identify almost all of them. They'd tried to discredit author Fawn Brodie on that subject because they'd come up empty trying to find fault with her biography of Joseph Smith.

"Steve backed up my research, and [fellow RFM contributor] Tom put in a post of support that still chokes me up when I think about it.

"I consider that action, and the post I made about the lady fare who disclosed to me she'd undergone electroshock 'gender reorientation therapy' under the aegis of BYU, as the two pieces of work I've done with the Internet that are my most satisfying and proud efforts.

"But the present situation has been an incredible group effort, and I would be remiss if I didn't acknowledge that reality.

"We walk with giants..."

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1276113,1276161#msg-1276161
_____


I totally get, and appreciate, what Cabbie is trying to say.

But "giants"?

If I may take a respectful, but differing, perspective.

I can't speak for others listed who may deservedly rank in Cabbie's category of those worthy of signature special status but I can, and will, speak for myself (as one critic told me once, "Steve, you're humble and proud of it").

I'm just a 5' 9" straight guy who was born, quite by accident, into the Mormon Cult and who, equally by accident, found himself sliding down a genetically-randomized birth canal, landing in a family whose name happens to rhyme with Muppet maker Jim Henson's. As for where I ended up plopping down, it was nothing "Mormon royal"; it was simply happenstance soil.

For what it's worth, I'm of the view that we--meaning all of us--come to the plate with our personal recipe of traits, temperments, talents, troubles and temporal tread wear. Having entered this biosphere through no fault, fate or feat of our own, we find ourselves reacting the way we do to this we're-here-in-this-sphere reality, based on our special blend of personal choice, basic instinct, societal expectation, cultural practice, family influence, religious teaching, educational background, geographical location, internal neurological-chemical composition, and external input from fellow homo sapiens with all their manufactured institutions designed to influence and control our thoughts and behavior.

This reaction originates from some sort of unique and complex genetic/environmental mix that serves to help make us who we are. Trailing clouds of non-heavenly but individually-wired unholy human glory, we are randomly air-dropped into our little corners of the world, from where we make our own marches, crawls, hops, skips and/or jumps through the wilderness of this insignificant blue rock we call Earth, doing the best we can--then die and turn into carbon.

Each of us responds differently to both our own surround-sound circumstances and to the drive of our own internal combustion engines, depending on our genes and on our experiences. Hopefully, amid the cacophony of hurry, scurry and fury that typifies this tiny planetary neighborhood, we make our own sound heard in ways that make personal sense to us and, in some cases, to others. Hence, in response to our deep human need for meaning and security, we end up forming communities--say, like RfM.

In my case, the personal vantage point that I was given for up-close viewing and behind-the-scenes assessing of the operations of the Mormon Cult (as provided me by the accident of birth) gave me a perspective that clearly indicated to me that LDS Inc. is poisoned by the theocratic toxins of:

--historical revisionism,

--institutional dishonesty,

--financial sleight-of-hand,

--member mind manipulation,

--community/group guilt-tripping,

--relentless pressure to conform,

--patronizing sexism,

--blind obedience,

--anti-individualism,

--scriptural racism,

--inbred homophobia,

--anti-intellectualism,

--compulsive authoritarianism,

--chronic abuse of power, and

--personality worship.

But hey, no cult is perfect.

I just thought it was wrong, evil and corrupt, It wouldn't answer my questions, it lied to me when it did, it tried to control me by making up what it thought were scary stories that would succeed in making me quake and conform, and it demanded money for those "services." Geezus, How dumb did they think I was? To hell with it, I thought, I don't need this scam trying to ruin my life and pad its bank account, so I up and left.

In my personal opinion, if there are any "giants among us," they arise in the form of godless Goliath goons--otherwise known as the Mormon Cult and other similar brain-crushing and heart-harming monsters--who stomp around the planet, using it as their own specially-entitled urinal and, in that pee-full pillaging process, ruining the experience for a lot of innocent humans who deserve better.

We are not mythical “giants” but, rather, the real “little people” of the world who make the world what it is. I don't mean that latter term in any sort of derogatory way but, at least as I see the reality on the ground, it pays to remember that in the grand scheme of things, our journey through infinite space on a small rock located in an outer ring of an insignificant galaxy is short-lived, although not meaningless.

Ernest Hemingway, in his book, “Farewell to Arms,” made the following sobering, yet, enlightening observation:

“Once in camp I put a log on a fire and it was full of ants. As it commenced to burn, the ants swarmed out and went first toward the center where the fire was; then turned back and ran toward the end. When there were enough on the end they fell off into the fire. Some got out, their bodies burnt and flattened, and went off not knowing where they were going. But most of them went toward the fire and then back toward the end and swarmed on the cool end and finally fell off into the fire. I remember thinking at the time that it was the end of the world and a splendid chance to be a messiah and lift the log off the fire and throw it out where the ants could get off onto the ground. But I did not do anything but throw a tin cup of water on the log, so that I would have the cup empty to put whiskey in before I added water to it. I think the cup of water on the burning log only steamed the ants.”

**********


We may be ants, but this is still our hill. Even the Mormon Cult's Goliath is capable. of feeling our collective sting.

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Posted by: runrunrun ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 08:32PM

Anybody remember Ed?

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Posted by: saucie ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 08:39PM

Those were wild days of fun ..... Who can forget !!!!!!!

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Posted by: looking in ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 02:01PM

The Colonel looms large in my memory. He was aggressive and bombastic, and I was usually left with my jaw dropped after reading his posts.

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Posted by: Susan I/S ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 05:04PM

I don't know why people are still making this ridiculous claim. The man DIED.

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 05:06PM

Yikes. I didn't know he died. He was really something though.

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Posted by: moira ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 05:12PM


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Posted by: topped ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 06:37PM

Posted by: Susan I/S ( )
Date: February 23, 2011 04:44PM

He passed away. nt (n/t)
_____

Posted by: ExMormonRon
Date: February 23, 2011 05:20PM
Re: He passed away. nt

Seriously? wow.

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Posted by: Susan I/S ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 06:54PM

And yet some claim to have "run him off". Never happened.

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Posted by: saucie ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 08:40PM

this is the first I've heard of him dying. How did you find out?

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Posted by: blueorchid ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 12:09PM

Haha. Clever ending to your post. I suspect a lot of people saw "RFM change over the years to a kinder gentler forum."


When I first came to RFM I just wanted to see why so many wanted to go on and on and on about the Mormon Church. I had left decades before and never thought about it again and couldn't understand why anyone even cared. The only thing I had done is read No Man Knows My History after being out for 38 years. Before that I knew no "anti" at all. So I was ready for the rougher stuff on RFM.

I got a real eye opener about how much serious damage the church was doing and the Mormon Church went from stupid and ridiculous in my eyes to being a manipulative cult. I couldn't believe the stories people were telling, the family wreckage.

What I found for myself when I got to RFM is that I had never processed my exit from the indoctrination. I had buried it all. I had never plumbed the depths or realized I needed to. But here, you can dig all the way to China and swear while you are doing it. That has been healing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2016 12:10PM by blueorchid.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 12:11PM

You have to cross The Rubicon to come to RfM and not be a troll. You have to doubt not your doubts lest ye be judged one.

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Posted by: CL2 ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 01:36PM

by the way people on RfM showed the lds leaders no respect. And then I realized that they were right. I finally realized who I could be angry at. It was a very healing moment.

I'm still around because sometimes I need the right to be angry at the things that mormons cause in my life, like the recent policies (revelations) against gays and their children. How can we possibly deal with what we've been through if we don't talk about it, if we don't allow ourselves to finally show anger.

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Posted by: randyj ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 02:07PM

"Luckily, those scary posters must have moved on. Now RfM is dominated by smart, intelligent, witty, knowledgeable, caring, and friendly people. That's right, I haven't changed, it must be RfM. ;o)"

Your comment reminds me of one attributed to Mark Twain:

"When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much he had learned in seven years."

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Posted by: getbusylivin ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 03:28PM

scotslander wrote: "Now RfM is dominated by smart, intelligent, witty, knowledgeable, caring, and friendly people."

Flattery will get you nowhere.

Cash, however, is always good. Please send unmarked tens and twenties to:

getbusylivin LLC
c/o getbusylivin, trailer 5C
Celestial Kingdom Trailer Park And Brew Pub
23 Frontage Road East
Moroni's Sphincter, UT 84501

Add $19.99 shipping/handling. Please no bitcoins, cards, checks, or post-dated two-party out-of-state IOUs.

"getbusylivin LLC: Putting Your Non-Tithing Money To Work Since 1951"

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 03:38PM

Oh yes, RFM changes in it's tone from time to time. I've been around since about 2000, coming and going. I've been called every name in the book, when my position didn't fit the current tone.
I was not angry, and not into calling people names.
Never have been. Nor do I respond in kind.

The tone now days has been a little more respectful of other posters they didn't agree with.

At one time, people would gang up on someone and try to rip them apart trying to get them to leave the board. Happened to me. People spread rumors about me that were not true also.

I can't be manipulated and refuse to take any of the ploys seriously. Their attitude and behavior was about them, it had nothing to do with me. I learned that early on.
And never, ever take any of the garbage personally.
I applied my favorite tactic: "put on a Duck Suit and let the crap run off your back."
That's always good advice in my view when dealing with strangers on the Internet who have no filter and think they can say anything they want as they are playing an anonymous game.

I had to learn the ways of the Internet -- like someone told me one time: "some days are gold, some are coal."

Anyhow, I've stuck around, hoping that I can, in some small way reach those that can benefit from my experience which is a little different than those born in the church.

I have learned a lot about human behavior on the Internet: the Good the Bad the Ugly! Which is pretty much what life is about.

I love the humor here. There is a lot of opportunity to share our humor also especially on SalamanderSociety.com. Many of us have some of our contributions published there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2016 03:39PM by SusieQ#1.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 04:03PM

Years ago a sibling of mine introduced me to this forum. I posted under the name "Moroni's Wings" for a while. Then I decided to use my own name. That same sibling, perhaps in an attempt to appease our parents, turned on me and trolled me here under a variety of fake names. It's funny how things turn out, isn't it?

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 06:25PM

donbagley

Those that want to bug others and cause trouble finally give up and leave if they can't win! :-)

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 06:41PM


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Posted by: dogzilla ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 04:04PM

I haven't ever thought the atmosphere here was "raucous" or any of the other superlatives that have been used in this thread. What I think is that mormons are coddled and insulated and taught that contention is of the devil. And we all know the reason we're taught that.

Part of critical thinking is evaluating and testing anything we've been told or taught to date. Too often, mormons view questioning as attacking. They perceive an argument as not a way to examine one's preconceived notions for accuracy and/or veracity, but as a way to just be aggressive and... satanic, I guess.

You can almost see the change in people's attitudes as they step out from the mormon cocoon and start learning to think critically, and how to evaluate and interpret information for themselves, as well as how to trust themselves that they are qualified to make that evaluation. Especially BIC mormons, those are completely new skills! You don't really learn them in school -- that's also a situation where you are spoon-fed information and expected to just absorb and memorize. So we have situations like this one, where someone looks up from their journey and realizes how far they've come.

I really enjoy watching it happen. You get a noob, who gets offended every other thread because argument is seen as a negative rather than as a productive way to work through conflict (which is also seen as a negative rather than as an opportunity to learn and grow). And then after a while, the tone of that noob's posts starts to change. Then you start seeing the bitterness and anger come through, which is totally part of the process after you realize that your development has been arrested for most of your life. And then people work through that by getting the best revenge possible, which is living well, living an authentic life.

I love it. I love you guys. Group hug, whaddya say?

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Posted by: sd ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 06:57PM

one of those crazy posters. It was the wild west back then and I definitely wasn't the sheriff. I'm still here. I've just mellowed. You get spanked by Susan I/S enough times and you learn to behave. :)

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Posted by: Shummy ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 07:38PM

Who remembers potty mouth Tedd?

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 07:46PM

He still pops in here from time to time.

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 07:39PM

My first opinion of RfM was that it is the most incredible collection of knowledgeable...interesting...thoughtful...fun and FUNNY (!!!), people that I had ever before been personally acquainted with. [Which is saying a great deal...from BOTH sides of my personal perception. ;) ]

And then, soon after, I realized that things, in addition to all of the above, could also be a bit harsh from time to time---but, as other old-timers have noted, there HAS been a noticeable "smoothing out" of the rough edges over the years, and I think we all have arrived at just about a perfect balance point...

...MOST of the time, anyway.

:D :D :D



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2016 07:40PM by Tevai.

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Posted by: Riverman ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 07:47PM

I have been coming around here for close to 10 years. I think RfM does have 'personality' changes at times. I think it has to do with current events, different individuals that are posting, even maybe the time of year.

I will admit, when I first posted here, it was a scary place. I was 95% out. Still attending, but mentally out. I was still indoctrinated enough to feel like I was in Satan's Den though.

Now, I come to enjoy what others have to say. There is so much to learn here. This place has changed my views on so many things, it is hard to count. It had made me rethink just about all of my views. The best part is, now I feel like my views are my views and not what the church tells me.

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Posted by: Susan I/S ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 08:13PM

The board is like a pot of stew. The flavor changes based on the ingredients :) No doubt it will change again soon. Always does.

One thing that never changes is sd's love of a good spanking ;)

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: April 12, 2016 08:30PM

Hahahaha!!! A spanking! A spanking!!!

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