it does lead people away from critical thinking into pseudo-science, conspiracies and magical thinking

Lets see:

Irrational believe system with contradictory rules
Any failure is do to a persons unworthiness
High level of guilt and repression
Humiliation is used as a tool for those that do not conform.
Impossible lists of tasks to complete.
Social acceptance dependent upon conforming.
Extreme interference into close personal relationships.

Hmmm... We we can conclusively state that it ain't a recipe for good mental health.

Well, I happened upon this German former mission president's blog.

http://germanyberlinmission2012-15.blogspot.com/

And I must say that I was a little taken aback. This guy seems like he might not have been a Western U.S./Utah douche bag and wife like my mission president was.

I had two presidents. The first one okay. Nice guy but seemed burned out and didn't care about his mission much. Trunkiest missionary I ever saw was my first president.

The second guy was a doctor from a big mansion in the Provo foothills. Not a fan. But both were from Mormon U.S.A. like most of these people called at the same time as The Kosaks.

http://www.ldschurchnewsarchive.com/articles/62035/New-mission-presidents.html

These gentlemen seemed either burned out on Mormonism or so high on it that they lived in another world. This Kosak dude looks a little more grounded. And it got me thinking about the early Mormon pioneers. I wondered if joining Mormonism started people and their children's children on a road to crazy. M parents are crazy. I've met so many Mormons who seem, let's say, a little less grounded to the earth. It makes me wonder if Mormonism is something that can actually make people insane?

I've read so many stories here that I can identify with in the Jerckyll and (Raw Ass)Hide category of almost becoming a different person and less of a jerk when they left Mormonism. I wonder if converts/people not in the heartsell of Mormonism are less susceptible to going Mormon crazy?

I don't know about "insane", but I know it can drive people to depression and anxiety to a point where they can no longer function. This obviously doesn't happen to a huge number (the inability to function part), but I've seen it happen.

I'm sure there are some individuals that have spent so much time seeking answers, spiritual experiences, etc... that they start interpreting every thought as "revelation", tying their brains in knots trying to find meaning in the temple,... Those that take it to such extremes might drive themselves mad.

You have to be somewhere outside of reality to believe the things they believe.

And closer to the star Kolob than most terrestrial beings.

When I was TBM, I honestly considered that I had a dual personality disorder. One personality was fixed on the physical world the other fixed on the make believe world.

When I went to Church, the Make Believe personality emerged and engaged with other Members and was happy.

When I went back to work, my personality grounded on the physical world came out and engaged with others and I was happy.

When I was at work or in public and asked Mormon Religion questions, my Make Believe personality became uncomfortable and had to play apologist to defend the church and wacky dogma.

When I finally cut ties with the Make Believe world, my remaining personality took over and I've been happier ever since.

Evolution has given us the ability to rationalize, be creative and have an Imagination. This ability was discovered and misused by Religion in such a horrible way. A way for the few in society to control the behavior and activity of the many in the society.

“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.” ~ Albert Einstein



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2016 05:37PM by cognitivedissonance.

cognitivedissonance Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Evolution has given us the ability to rationalize,
> be creative and have an Imagination. This ability
> was discovered and misused by Religion in such a
> horrible way. A way for the few in society to
> control the behavior and activity of the many in
> the society.

And we have a winner with Heresy number two!

And here it is from McDonkey himself.

"Heresy two concerns itself with the relationship between organic evolution and revealed religion and asks the question whether they can be harmonized."

Blah, blah, blah, Christ, Adam, God, blah, atonement, blah and then...

"My reasoning causes me to conclude that if death has always prevailed in the world, then there was no fall of Adam that brought death to all forms of life; that if Adam did not fall, there is no need for an atonement; that if there was no atonement, there is no salvation, no resurrection, and no eternal life; and that if there was no atonement, there is nothing in all of the glorious promises that the Lord has given us. I believe that the Fall affects man, all forms of life, and the earth itself, and that the Atonement affects man, all forms of life, and the earth itself."
https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/bruce-r-mcconkie_seven-deadly-heresies/

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Heresy two concerns itself with the relationship
> between organic evolution and revealed religion
> and asks the question whether they can be
> harmonized."

As religion attempts to harmonize evolution and revelation, they also have to also control our imagination, the information we receive and curtail any rationalization (doubt your doubts). They do this by telling silly boogieman stories to the children. Adults are convinced the boogieman is real and bend to the will of their Religion.

I've heard it many times, Just accept it as true. If you think too much about it, you will fall under the influence of the boogieman.

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> "My reasoning causes me to conclude that if death
> has always prevailed in the world, then there was
> no fall of Adam that brought death to all forms of
> life; that if Adam did not fall, there is no need
> for an atonement; that if there was no atonement,
> there is no salvation, no resurrection, and no
> eternal life; and that if there was no atonement,
> there is nothing in all of the glorious promises
> that the Lord has given us. I believe that the
> Fall affects man, all forms of life, and the earth
> itself, and that the Atonement affects man, all
> forms of life, and the earth itself."
> https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/bruce-r-mcconkie_se
> ven-deadly-heresies/

Talk about your cognitive dissonance. Bruce's reasoning laid out the logic for one inescapable conclusion (that the whole thing is bogus), and then declares he believes the exact opposite.

Right? I thought the same thing. Take forever deconstructing the fantasy and then promote it.

Can confirm...i indulge pseudo science a bit....conspiracies...and a wee bit of magic...forty years a pure dee goodness will do that to ya...im comforted when i read many conspiracy theories end up being true.???..like joe diddling the babysitter in the barn...you wont read much about that in the ensign...what are the chances thats just an anti mo conspiracy lie...my new theory is all folks are insane to some degree or other....i read the news.....just some behaviors and beliefs are far more socially acceptable and less destructive...declaring yourself jesus isnt the only determining factor...lookin at you davie....then theres white hankies and chanting in a big fancy castle surrounded by others In awkward wardrobe for sky dads approbation.....we all have our whimsies...some are just more fun..S...another pet theory is no one gets out of here alive...cant confirm...but seems dam likely...so try to enjoy each day of our rock ride thru space

I do believe it is an essential ingredient for unhappiness and wackiness. I think the minute you claim supernatural experiences you have broken with reality so you might as well claim insanity as your defense.

Serious answer:

When I was leaving the church, I felt like I was on the edge of insanity.

I had the facts, but the cognitive dissonance between reality and what I was 'supposed to' believe was huge. I had to make a choice. If I accepted the LDS version of reality, I would have to let go of reason, and evidence and just hand over my brain to whatever anybody told me was real.

It felt like I was trying to decide between sanity and insanity, and it truly scared the hell out of me.

Now I'm not saying that everyone who 'chooses to believe' in spite of the evidence is crazy. Some people never reach the point where they have too much evidence to ignore it or rationalize it away. I had gotten to the point where the evidence was irrefutable. To believe, I would have had to convince myself that nothing is at it seems, and we can't know if anything is real.

imaworkinonit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To believe, I would have had to
> convince myself that nothing is at it seems, and
> we can't know if anything is real.

Jefferey Holland makes this same point over and over again only in Mormonese.

What he thinks (or at least preaches) is REALLY real is the Mormon fantasy. All things outside of its sacred boundaries (The Lord has set) is the realm of fantasy mingled with reality(scripture.)

It is scary. His CES speaking tirade reminded me of a crazy person proclaiming by fiat that his reality WAS reality.

Maude: "Don't be fatuous, Jeffrey."

I remember that all of the single adult women in my ward really were crazy. I married the one that wasn't, but it turned out she was too. So, in my experience Mormonism drives women crazy. It keeps all the 19th century disempowerment and adds its own crazy sauce.

I married one who isn't. I don't know how she does it. Probably compartmentalizing reinforced with real love from her parents. Nothing like real love in comparison to fantasy love like that from our Heavenly Father.

Hmmm. Good question. Which came first, the chicken or the egg.

Does mormonism make people insane or do insane people just love mormonism?

Speaking as a (nominal) Mormon, I think Mormonism is one of those tests that Mormonism is always telling us is a blessing, like disease, bankruptcy, genital warts etc., although Mormonism doesn't realize when it's telling us to use the negative stuff in our lives as tools to help us grow that it's actually talking about itself at the same time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2016 05:45PM by getbusylivin.

Yes, in a handcart, without a map, or a plan - to get there... or to get back.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2016 11:29PM by moremany.

It depends on your definition of insane. I can blame a lot of my depression, social phobia, and suicidal idealization on the church. The comments, the attacks on my self worth, the pressure to be perfect, the loneliness, the wondering for years why God wouldn't just give me some comfort. I knew I wasn't supposed to ask him to make it go away, so I asked for strength to get through it.

You know what? I got ME through it. Even when I still sort of believed there was more good than bad in the church, I knew I survived because of me. Because I quit waiting on an unknowable God.

The only reason I was alive at this time last year was because I would come home from work and sleep. My stupid cat is so emotionally dependent on me she would go insane if I were gone. My mother's unconditional love. My brother who would come spend most weekends with me (despite living nearly an hour away).

They got me through it. Gawd couldn't even be half assed to "inspire" my home/visiting teachers to check up on me in multiple wards.

Yes, mormonism can literally drive you insane. As long as you drink the koolaid and don't question, you're fine. Once the cognitive dissonance starts...yes.

So whether you mean "insane" in the psychological literal definition or "insane" in the slang "you gotta be crazy to believe" way, yes, it can drive you insane.

arinae Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The only reason I was alive at this time last year
> was because I would come home from work and sleep.
> My stupid cat is so emotionally dependent on me
> she would go insane if I were gone. My mother's
> unconditional love. My brother who would come
> spend most weekends with me (despite living nearly
> an hour away).

I only got supported as long as I held to the iron rod of mother's god.

That is horrible. I'm sorry you had that experience. People need to learn unconditional love, one thing TSCC fails to teach.

God loves you no matter what as long as you do what he says.

With Mormonism the clinical definitions of insanity often will not be relevant because, either way, the RESUlT on a persons emotional and mental well being can be so harmfully impactful. That is, when a person is unable to function emotionally and mentally in a mature and balanced way because of Mormonism, then the only thing separating a clinical diagnosis from one otherwise is a trip to the doctors office.

Yes. Especially if you're gay or transgender.

YEAH, you literally, in real reality don't fit into the Mormon fantasy of delusions. If you think you fit in, you think God has cursed you as much as God ever could have The Lamanites. And God curses them so they would be sexually unattractive....Wait, what?

So God has a precedent of cursing people in regards to their sexual attractions in Mormonism. Sounds crazy to me.