...them.

My mother is determined to hit 3 digits so if she reaches her goal I've got lots more years to be estranger.

I'm feeling like a monster. The irony is my father is catered to in his patriarchy of my family and he was a monster to two poor adopted kids when he molested them.

My mother is so wrapped up in her world of volunteering at hospitals and temples and other people's business that she doesn't have time or cares much about the tons of people she is that matriarch of in this world.

I was fathered and mothered and not bothered with much after I was matriculated into public school. My family are stranger to me than strangers. I was raised to find love and acceptance outside our perfect "cheaper by the dozen" home. And I'm the bad guy, black sheep, and kid who could care less if his parents are still breathing.

Maybe I'm on the sociopath spectrum. Want some of my wine?

My two sisters have dumped me. Only my brother stays in contact.

She's so tough she could outlive me, as I'm the oldest, and she had me at age 21.

I totally understand what you are going through. No contact with a parent, especially elderly, is a tough thing to do as it goes against society's norms.

I finally cut off my parents last summer after I personally witnessed them playing the same mind games with their grandchildren as they played (and still play) with their own children, myself included. I didn't cut them off when they disowned me for years when I left the church. I didn't cut them off when they slandered me to my friends and relatives, making up stories about my "sinful lifestyle." I didn't cut them off when I found out they had been telling anyone that would listen that my husband abused me in every way possible (a bald-faced lie that could have jeopardized his career).

I gave them chance after chance and I'm still the bad daughter who is punishing them for absolutely no reason at all by withholding their sweet grandchildren. In the church they are wonderful and perfect, serving a senior mission in their retirement, and devoting themselves to "The Lord". In the relationship with their kids, they are mean, cruel, vindictive, and purposely hurt their grandchildren physically and emotionally to teach their adult children some type of twisted lesson. The lesson is always to obey them. That was the lesson my whole life. Do whatever they say without question. According to them, none of what I have accused them over ever happened, and if it did, they don't remember it, and therefore they can't feel sorry or apologize for it because obviously they are good people and wouldn't act that way.

So I feel you. My parents are in their 60's, and I anticipate both of them could live for another 30 years, wallowing in their self-righteous indignation over how terrible I am for finally putting my foot down and protecting my family from their abuse. Sometimes I think I must be terrible because I think about never seeing them again and all I feel is relief. They've kept most of my brothers and sisters under their control, so I am 40 years old without any strong connection to any of them, with exceptions for 2 siblings (out of 9.) It seems that the rest of my siblings don't want to stop pretending like everything is okay, even though they admit that my parents have done terrible things. Somehow me finally putting a stop to their cruelty infecting my children is worse than anything my parents ever did.

Birdie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So I feel you. My parents are in their 60's, and I
> anticipate both of them could live for another 30
> years, wallowing in their self-righteous
> indignation over how terrible I am for finally
> putting my foot down and protecting my family from
> their abuse. Sometimes I think I must be terrible
> because I think about never seeing them again and
> all I feel is relief.

How this resonates. My mother has had dreams and visions of my death since my birth. I stopped contact with her for a variety of reasons but not to hear about her premonitions is a "blessing" of relief to me.

I think it is her doing her manipulation. Her premonitions of my early death are always followed by how she had it because she was thinking of me and thought about how I don't go to church or have a calling blah, blah, blah.

> They've kept most of my
> brothers and sisters under their control, so I am
> 40 years old without any strong connection to any
> of them, with exceptions for 2 siblings (out of
> 9.)

Same with my parents. I'm one out of 10. I talk to my exmo bro and very rarely my deluded youngest sister. My mother was in her mid 40s when she had her after a Downs Syndrome stillborn. She claims my sister came to her in a vision pleading with her to conceive again. She is obviously the favorite. Her mother is not my mother. Totally different people. And my sister is the one pushing the agenda "Mom's changed" the hardest.

> It seems that the rest of my siblings don't
> want to stop pretending like everything is okay,
> even though they admit that my parents have done
> terrible things.

Ditto.

> Somehow me finally putting a stop
> to their cruelty infecting my children is worse
> than anything my parents ever did.

I know right? We're the bad guys cause we ditched the family.

My mother also has those types of visions. I'm dying, I'm going to hell, Satan took my soul physically out of my body, Satan lives in my closet... oh please. The numerous accusations about my debauchery are all based on the visions she has supposedly received. She had constantly had visions that I was having pre-marital sex in detailed ways that made me wonder what type of porn she was watching. My teenage life was non-stop sex patrol based on her visions. The reason she accused my husband of abusing me was because of yet more visions.

I have also wondered like you if she really has visions, or if it is another one of her manipulations. Not a great choice - a self-aware emotional abuser or clinical psychosis. Either way, my father likes having such a spiritual wife, and encourages her having and recounting these premonitions. It doesn't seem to concern him that they are untrue, never accurate, and very damaging to the wellbeing of his children. Of course, he is completely manipulative as well.

Birdie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Of course, he is
> completely manipulative as well.

There is a reason my parents are still together and why they had so many children. No one wants to admit it but my brother and I.

Birdie, I could have written that same post almost word for word.

I'm a regular poster (with a regular pseudonym), but I always go more anon before posting stuff about my family.

I get what Elder Berry was saying about not mourning. In the end, the death of my parents felt more like a relief than a grief. And I feel somewhat guilty about that. But to be honest, my father was always distant, controlling and judgemental. And my mother had a way of sucking my energy and dumping all her negative emotions on me. While she lived I didn't quite feel like my life was my own. She had a bottomless pit of neediness.

Your comment "It seems that the rest of my siblings don't want to stop pretending like everything is okay". I SO hear you. I have one sibling, out of 7, who got it. When we tried to talk about it to the others, it went over like a lead balloon. No. Our family was perfect. How dare we suggest otherwise.

anon for a minute Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When we tried to
> talk about it to the others, it went over like a
> lead balloon. No. Our family was perfect. How dare
> we suggest otherwise.

At least you got a chance to voice the dirty laundry. I'm jealous.

Elder Berry, I totally understand how you feel because I was very abused by my nevermo mother. She was mean and hateful to me, then my children who eventually wanted nothing to do with her to the very end. Long story short I was just so relieved when she died. Those feelings are normal for those circumstances.

I ,too, am a regular poster with a regular screen name but wish to be anon as I post personal information.

I have been estranged from my Mo parents for nearly fifteen years plus the duration of their multiple senior missions preceding this.

My father died when I was not in the country. My mother, supreme narcissist, now 90+ continues to make turmoil for my remaining sibling and Never-Mo in law. My in-law is approaching breaking point. We have a good relationship. My mother is exhausting her Mormon "friends" but still manages to use them as "Flying Monkeys".

I refuse to enter into the chaos she creates. When she (eventually) dies the relief to all around will be great. She will not be mourned, but still has the fantasy that she is more important than anyone else.

My sincere wishes to all of us who deal with the fallout from Mormon parenting.

EB,

Feeling like a monster is old biblical bullshit about honoring one's parents, but who in their right minds would "honor" child abusers and molesters? (That's plural, because mothers have a duty to protect their young, but sounds like she was too busy feathering her nest to tend the chicks.)

You are doing the opposite of what monsters do; you are standing solid against the monsters. That these particular monsters are getting older, wrinkly, maybe not as strong as they once were, does not mean that they are not still monsters. Even if they prostrated themselves before those they've harmed in abject humility, what of reparations? What could they do to return the lives and happiness they selfishly stole?

Throw out the old desert-born idioms about honoring monsters. You do not need to carry that (their) weight.

btw, I'd want to see the docs that prove they were born on the same day. Sounds like a typical old-time husband- or wife-snagging scam to me, all the better for more "specialness" through the years. I could be wrong, just sounds red-flagg-ish.

anonthistime1001 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> btw, I'd want to see the docs that prove they were
> born on the same day. Sounds like a typical
> old-time husband- or wife-snagging scam to me, all
> the better for more "specialness" through the
> years. I could be wrong, just sounds
> red-flagg-ish.

Sorry for the confusion. My father turned 80 in November. Today is my mother's 80th birthday.

Out of curiosity, would you do something like "dance on the grave" of the "being?"

Would I dance on their graves?

No.

I like what anonthistime1001 wrote.

"Even if they prostrated themselves before those they've harmed in abject humility, what of reparations? What could they do to return the lives and happiness they selfishly stole?"

They couldn't return what they never gave - much love. But I think all 10 of us would love to see them attempt to mend ways and a build bridges. God know the 8 sibs pretending would like to see some ROI. But I think the 4 oldest and the youngest probably don't even think they need to mend their ways. They still have little tiny unburned bridges over their giving little streams to their parents. They get what little love my parents have and it is pathetic to watch.

My mother was physically abusive, emotional manipulative, and obsessed with the possibility of my actions proving that she was a terrible mother.

My father was distant, too absorbed in his work and his callings to have much of a relationship with me. Anything my mother said or did to me was my fault. He supports her no matter what.

I don't think either of my parents have ever liked me all that much, and I have felt this way since I was a child.

I love my parents. The reason I broke contact is because my love for them allowed me to continue to be abused and used as a weapon against other people. It also allowed them to abuse my husband and children. I cannot allow that to continue. For the past 8 months, I have been mourning the loss of the parents I pretended that I had, and grieving over the reality of the parents that I do have.

I still have a door in my heart for them, but they will never walk through it because they don't think they should have to. They don't think that they have done anything wrong or that if they did, that they should have to answer to one of their children. I belong to them, and they have LDS scripture to back up their belief. They are better than me, and I chose it to be that way in the pre-existence. By demanding that they treat me with integrity and respect, I am saying that I am an equal. That is unacceptable to both of them.

In my last conversation with my mother, she told me that her entire life had been a giant waste of time because her children had turned out to be nothing but disappointments to her. My dad sat silently next to her and wouldn't make eye contact. My tears meant nothing except that they were winning. All because I had told her that I was no longer willing to let her lies about me and my family stand.

So no, I would not dance on their graves. The reason I won't mourn is because I don't have anything left for them - they already took it.

Birdie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My mother was physically abusive, emotional
> manipulative, and obsessed with the possibility of
> my actions proving that she was a terrible
> mother.

Wow. The similarities are astounding. Makes me wonder how many Mormon families are like ours?

My mother is verbally abusive. Not in name calling but in breaking down instead of building up. Anything she disapproves of and there is a lot, she uses as fuel to tear people apart. She would tell me I would amount to nothing if I didn't follow her plan for me. Any deviation was cause for her weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth, threats, accusations of being abusive to her. And my father supports this 100 percent. He actually does something I find myself doing sometimes and it scares me. 0-110 degrees hot anger. When my mother dramatically engages her children this turns his thermostat up.

> My father was distant, too absorbed in his work
> and his callings to have much of a relationship
> with me. Anything my mother said or did to me was
> my fault. He supports her no matter what.

Exactly like mine. Found things to do to avoid hen pecking and her clutch of chicks chirping.

> I don't think either of my parents have ever liked
> me all that much, and I have felt this way since I
> was a child.

I think my mother liked me as a very small child. She also like that I was artistic. All her paternal line going back 100 years have been artists. That was a saving grace for her for me. But she hates that I'm not like the her other male children who have all at times been surrogate husbands and fed her ego. I never did. I always disagreed. I showed my siblings how not to be.

> I love my parents. The reason I broke contact is
> because my love for them allowed me to continue to
> be abused and used as a weapon against other
> people. It also allowed them to abuse my husband
> and children. I cannot allow that to continue. For
> the past 8 months, I have been mourning the loss
> of the parents I pretended that I had, and
> grieving over the reality of the parents that I do
> have.

I love mine as well and so aptly put, they will never walk through that door you mention below. They don't even know it exists. It is beyond their conceptual thinking to think that they require a door to my heart. They think they own it.

> I still have a door in my heart for them, but they
> will never walk through it because they don't
> think they should have to. They don't think that
> they have done anything wrong or that if they did,
> that they should have to answer to one of their
> children. I belong to them, and they have LDS
> scripture to back up their belief. They are better
> than me, and I chose it to be that way in the
> pre-existence. By demanding that they treat me
> with integrity and respect, I am saying that I am
> an equal. That is unacceptable to both of them.

LOL! So true. Treating their children with respect is not really an option.

> In my last conversation with my mother, she told
> me that her entire life had been a giant waste of
> time because her children had turned out to be
> nothing but disappointments to her. My dad sat
> silently next to her and wouldn't make eye
> contact. My tears meant nothing except that they
> were winning. All because I had told her that I
> was no longer willing to let her lies about me and
> my family stand.

My mother is pleased with most of her children. I and my brother are the disappointments. The other tow the line for her.

> So no, I would not dance on their graves. The
> reason I won't mourn is because I don't have
> anything left for them - they already took it.

I didn't have much to begin with from my parents. I love them because I am their child and this is something they have counted on and used and abused repeatedly. No contact is the best way to avoid this.

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Wow. The similarities are astounding. Makes me
> wonder how many Mormon families are like ours?

I don't know. I wonder about that a lot. My therapist believes that my parents have a personality disorder, but I'm not sure what is personality disorder and what is cult brainwashing. My therapist has experience with cult-deprogramming and with personality disorders, so we've spent a bit of time unraveling it. She says that I have issues with spiritual trauma on top of the other reasons I went to therapy.

I think that the emphasis on certain ideas, like personal revelation, encourages unhealthy thinking in people. After a lifetime of this, sometimes I am more surprised that most mormons are as normal as they are.

> My mother is verbally abusive. Not in name calling
> but in breaking down instead of building up.
> Anything she disapproves of and there is a lot,
> she uses as fuel to tear people apart. She would
> tell me I would amount to nothing if I didn't
> follow her plan for me. Any deviation was cause
> for her weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth,
> threats, accusations of being abusive to her. And
> my father supports this 100 percent. He actually
> does something I find myself doing sometimes and
> it scares me. 0-110 degrees hot anger. When my
> mother dramatically engages her children this
> turns his thermostat up.

My mother is verbally abusive in that way, as well as in the name calling way. She was obsessed with me and sex. She talks bad about everyone, and gossips non-stop. But she is tricky, because it always sounds like she is telling me stuff out of concern for someone else, or warning me for my protection. I have only recently figured out that almost everything she tells me is either wholly or partially fabricated in order to manipulate me.

> Exactly like mine. Found things to do to avoid hen
> pecking and her clutch of chicks chirping.

That is exactly how I would describe my father. Part of my issue with my dad is that because I am female, he views me as just another pecking hen. My legitimate concerns and objections are viewed in the same light as my mother's fabricated drama. He completely dismisses anything I say because it is women cat-fighting in his mind.

> I think my mother liked me as a very small child.
> She also like that I was artistic. All her
> paternal line going back 100 years have been
> artists. That was a saving grace for her for me.
> But she hates that I'm not like the her other male
> children who have all at times been surrogate
> husbands and fed her ego. I never did. I always
> disagreed. I showed my siblings how not to be.

My mom loves children until they get "sassy" at about 5-7 years old. Which is part of the reason she kept having babies. This is what she says. The only reason she stopped having children is because she hit menopause. But in my case, as the oldest daughter, she wanted me to be a complete clone of her. The problem was is that she hates herself I think. So the things that were alike she tore down because it was too much like her. The things that were different were a form of disrespect because I was proving that she was awful by not being the same. It was a total mind fuck.


> My mother is pleased with most of her children. I
> and my brother are the disappointments. The other
> tow the line for her.

The only child my mom is completely happy with is my youngest brother. He is 26, lives at my parents' home, has never held a full time job, didn't finish college, and is an aspiring model/rapper. The rest of us are various amounts of disappointing because we grew up.

> I didn't have much to begin with from my parents.
> I love them because I am their child and this is
> something they have counted on and used and abused
> repeatedly. No contact is the best way to avoid
> this.

Exactly how I feel. I wish things could be different. I love them because I am their child, but I am not A Child. I realized that no contact is the only way to avoid the dysfunction. And therapy. Lots of therapy.

Birdie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My mom loves children until they get "sassy" at
> about 5-7 years old. Which is part of the reason
> she kept having babies. This is what she says. The
> only reason she stopped having children is because
> she hit menopause. But in my case, as the oldest
> daughter, she wanted me to be a complete clone of
> her. The problem was is that she hates herself I
> think. So the things that were alike she tore down
> because it was too much like her. The things that
> were different were a form of disrespect because I
> was proving that she was awful by not being the
> same. It was a total mind fuck.

Our mothers are both like the wicked queen in Snow White. They both love and hate the mirror. It tells them they are beautiful but their fear of being superseded by their children in exercising their righteous authority over them is not to be tolerated. As long as us mirrors tell them they are beautiful we can keep them as "mom" and yet do what we want. My polygamist sister tried to teach me that when I was a preteen. But I can't take it. The superficial bull shit is too much the mind f_ck to maintain for a relationship with my mother.

The thing my mother always throws against me is that I am like her father and brothers who I gather she both loved and hated. They were all alcoholic and her father and one brother drank themselves to death and the other brother committed suicide by throwing himself in the Deer Creek Reservoir shortly before I got married.

My oldest sister has the same relationship you describe for yourself. And this oldest sister is a therapist who has had decades of therapy herself. For some reason it has never dawned on her to cut contact. In fact I heard she recently gave my mother a car. Those two (mother and oldest daughter) love to hate each other and when I was around they would be friendly to each other at family functions and privately bitch about each other behind each others' backs.

I do sympathize with both of them in one regard. My oldest sister tried to replace her mother with my grandmother (Hugh B. Brown's daughter if you know who he is) and get the approval she craved from her. It didn't work out. After years of manipulating my grandmother my grandfather put a stop to the relationship as best he could and then died. I don't think it was the same after that.

And my mother accuses my oldest sister of attempting to replace her in our family as matriarch. She has been at war with her since I can remember and my father tries to appease both and I think that really pisses off my mother.

What a f'ing mess. Glad I don't jump in that gene pool much anymore.

Yeah, I was never good at the superficial stuff either. When I got married, left home, and dropped the church (all at the same time!) my parents completely lost their minds. I used to think it was because they were devastated that I would no longer be a part of their Celestial Family and I believed that they were justified, but misguided, in their response. Now I think that they were mostly upset because now they had no way to control me. I have realized that they never tried to convert my husband or talk to me about my beliefs - they only tried to force me back into the life they had planned out for me. Which was to live with them until I got married to someone they picked and then start having more babies for my mother.

Over the years, I slowly built back a relationship. The part I am kicking myself over is how much I blamed the church for a problem that was really more about my parents being horrible people. I thought if I kept being good, and kind, and honest that they would come around. I still think the religion has made whatever problems they had as people get a million times worse. The church supports a lot of their unhealthy thinking - that they own their kids, that they have the right and the duty to run our lives, that their disordered thinking is promptings of the Holy Ghost, that the world is full of conspiracies and evil spirits at war and signs of the apocalypse.

As I slowly regained a position in my family, I quickly fell back into the role of parenting my mother, trying to show her how to be a reasonable, kind person and helping her improve her self image. It was all manipulation from them. My love for my parents and my desire to see my mom happy instead of miserable, compounded by the guilt I had for leaving a religion that she truly believed and I knew was bunk, was just another tool they had to use against me.

I thought I had stopped playing their games and had my head on straight, but they are so good at what they do. I didn't understand how deep my programming went, and so I didn't see what was really happening. Now that I do, I realize that I cannot be around it and keep myself healthy. It is a worn rut that I will fall back into the minute I am back in the situation.

I told my parents my conditions for resuming contact. They haven't even acknowledged that I have the right to have conditions. So I fully expect I will never see them again.

Birde Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Over the years, I slowly built back a
> relationship. The part I am kicking myself over is
> how much I blamed the church for a problem that
> was really more about my parents being horrible
> people. I thought if I kept being good, and kind,
> and honest that they would come around. I still
> think the religion has made whatever problems they
> had as people get a million times worse. The
> church supports a lot of their unhealthy thinking
> - that they own their kids, that they have the
> right and the duty to run our lives, that their
> disordered thinking is promptings of the Holy
> Ghost, that the world is full of conspiracies and
> evil spirits at war and signs of the apocalypse.

This really struck me. I came at it from a different angle. I thought my parents were terrible and the church was blameless. I came to the conclusion that the church feeds monsters.

The funny thing about my mother was in a few conversations I had with her she shared stuff with me that she didn't with others to my knowledge. She complained to me that she felt she had to marry though she would have preferred remaining single. She has/had? a lot of anger towards her father and men by association and I think he probably molested her.

I found out from my brother that she is selling the story to our siblings now that early in their marriage my father was verbally abusive towards her. I never saw it if it ever happened but I am a middle child. I think she is looking for new pity party material. I never know what to believe with her.

I believe my parents were raised in abusive/neglectful homes. My father was routinely left with relatives for long periods of time. After my grandmother divorced Rulon Jeffs in the 1940s I think she went a little crazy. She was a sweet person but I did see her dark side a few times and she felt entitled to a life of social opportunities and ease in my opinion.

I think Mormonism is not directly at fault for my family's problems but they are HUGE accessories to their crimes. Mormonism creates a dichotomy of thought where perfection and superficiality rule. Love by divine direction and coercion is the Mormon dictum.

Only families that rule from the heart and not a heavenly mandate can survive Mormonism unscathed.

This struck a chord with me:

"I found out from my brother that she is selling the story to our siblings now that early in their marriage my father was verbally abusive towards her. I never saw it if it ever happened but I am a middle child. I think she is looking for new pity party material. I never know what to believe with her."

All my life I thought my dad was the more volatile and controlling parent. But my mom was such a good manipulator that I didn't really think about the fact that she was recounting stories from 30 years prior where my dad didn't let her buy that dress she wanted, or that coat, or fix up the house like she wanted or whatever. He was SO mean, I thought. My poor mom/martyr. It never occurred to me how ridiculous it was for her to be holding a grudge for the rest of her life, and bad mouthing him to the kids. And MOST of all, playing the victim, instead of acting like an adult and equal partner.

It didn't occur to me how she also blamed us kids for her stress and health problems. We all eventually learned that it WAS our job to protect our mother from disappointment, stress, etc. And if she got upset, our dad would get really mad at us. Who knows how many of his blowups started with my mother whining.

Eventually, my parents went to live with one of my siblings when they got older. They finally realized that MOM was the difficult one to get along with, not dad. Now, Dad HAD mellowed a bit after a couple strokes, but at the end of their lives, my mother was a piece of work. She would make up all kinds of stuff to get what she wanted and generated sympathy by throwing caretakers under the bus, claiming they weren't helping her.

But back to your point, she liked to make my Dad out to be the bad guy. I have no idea how much of that was fabrication.

I went to AlAnon for 4 years, thanks to my exhubby.

It was a real eye opener to me. I learned how to deal with people like my parents. They act very much like dry drunks. They've done mountains of damage to all of their kids.

They've been out of my life for a long time. I had to save myself.

My mother said that the only really important thing in raising children is to love them and let them know it. She taught school for almost 16 years before getting married and she said that, as a teacher, success hinged on her students knowing she loved them (not sexually) and she was beloved by her students. She died just short of what would have been her 94th birthday and at her funeral all the children and spouses and grandchildren were there and sang - with the only exception our oldest son who she made promise not to come because of the cost as he had just spent time with her and had brought all his children with him across the country to do so. I cannot hear "Amazing Grace" without tearing as it was a song she chose for her funeral and the first verse was sung as a solo by one of our daughters, and then all the grandchildren joined in.

My father never said a discouraging nor critical word to any of us. We got to make our own decisions.

From what I read I got the best parents. They were not Mormons.

I remember reading Harry Potter the first time and thinking how great it would be if I found out that I was actually a wizard and didn't belong to these people at all. How great to escape the dursleys and find out I had real parents that loved me and adored me and gave me confidence and cheered me on! I always tell those close to me that I feel like I was raised by a foster family. Completely ignored unless dear mother needed to scream at me or belittle me for whatever she deemed I was worthy of. As she has aged, she has started to try to hug me and tell me she loves me. Her touch is like a hot stove top. I instantly recoil and cannot even reply with a loving response. I won't mourn her death in the least. I wouldn't dance on the grave though either. There are just no feelings at all.

Well, all i can say is WOW!...

Just when I think I have identified as much as I can to the posts on the RFM board I read this thread. Thanks Elder Berry for starting the thread and being so vulnerable and honest. And Birdie, I especially relate to the things you have said here.

And just when I think that my HIGHLY dysfunctional mormon family is somehow different I read all of your beautifully honest posts. From the "premonitions" that my mother had ("premonitions!!!!", can't really stop laughing!), and to the use of the word "sassy" when describing children who are trying to find their voice (I was "sassy" to say the least, and that was just the beginning, thank the universe for that!)...

I too have been forced to move on from my parents. I have reluctantly come to learn that there is just no way for me to have contact with them because the ultimate result of a relationship with them is loosing, sacrificing, obliterating myself. That price is just too high. It took me decades to face this fact, but now that I have I have never been happier. I now see that I did not cause this, the toxic dynamic is because of THEM and THEIR choices. They are the ones who chose to put their cult before everything else in their life, including their own children, and even themselves. I am grateful I no longer have to take responsibility for something that I had absolutely nothing to do with from the very beginning. They were doing this before I was even born. This is theirs... this is their creation, not mine.

Someone else said this in an earlier post, and its the same for me... this has been more about mourning the loss of who I thought my parents were and who I wanted them to be, and facing the truth of who they really are. As with all things in life, when I face the truth I am set free. Though there has been sadness in facing this truth, I am a free as the result.

Thanks again everyone for sharing so honestly.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2016 11:07PM by freeinca.

freeinca Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just when I think I have identified as much as I
> can to the posts on the RFM board I read this
> thread. Thanks Elder Berry for starting the thread
> and being so vulnerable and honest.

The older I get the easier it is. No contact with people who make me want to be as deluded as them helps a lot. When I had contact I would take days and weeks to get my head straight again.

I cut contact with my parents when I realized that it would take me 6 months to come out of the depression I would go into whenever I was around them. I had to save my sanity.

If I told them that I thought they loved the church more than their own kids or even themselves, they would be so proud of that. That's how off they are in their thinking. They've given their all to mormonism. After 90 years of that, there's nothing left of the family I was born into.

One of the things I've kept in mind throughout my life: there are no fantasy parents. We got what we got. The dynamics of a home is almost always complicated with the good, the bad, the ugly.

Fortunately, I was driven to get out and on my own and managed to cull the positive out of the heaps of negative and find my own way while many in the family pitted one against the other. When our little family (all but one) joined the LDS Church our mother found an authority that she could cling to.

The best thing I ever did was get married and move out of state. Every visit was more of the same craziness of finding fault, never a matter of showing love and acceptance.
I vowed I needed to do things differently, instinctively - much of what I learned about parenting was when I was a new member of the LDS Church and living in BYU married campus housing. I saw a lot of excellent examples along with some strange ones. .


Over the years, I mourned my parents and grandparents, etc., as they left this earth at the time. I always knew their time was short. It was a release in their cases.

I knew I was loved on some level, along with the qualifiers that seemed to be minor.

The longer I was away from the negativity of the home, the better my life became. It was so ingrained in me to expect the put downs, the fault finding. Not so with my grandfather (my only father-type role model in my life.) Along with the ugliness was a lot of laughter. It was an odd combination but somehow the humor stuck with me and has been at my core all of my life from childhood. That and the music.

So I got the good, the bad, the ugly, and sorted it out for myself. Now that I have outlived all of them (dying many years younger than I am now) I have a much different perspective and understanding of their personalities, what they knew what to do and why as they were raised in a very different era. I can let the bad and ugliness go. Leave it alone.
I learned from it and never felt damaged by it.

I know how to create my own joy and happiness and peace of mind. It's up to me, not anyone else. I keep my contacts positive and stay focused. It makes life so much more enjoyable!

When I read the lives of others that had such a horrific upbringing by parents who were totally ill equipped to be parents, I am grateful that I escaped that kind of life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2016 11:03PM by SusieQ#1.

SusieQ#1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I read the lives of others that had such a
> horrific upbringing by parents who were totally
> ill equipped to be parents, I am grateful that I
> escaped that kind of life.

Mormonism mandates all to be parents if at all remotely possible. This reduces all Mormons to breeders. Not a heavenly notion in my opinion but the "natural man."

I'm glad you've had a good life.

Elder Berry Wrote:


As a convert, married to a TBM, I never considered the religion reducing me to a "breeder" nor was my husband and I remote. We were a partnership and worked together. Our children all know they were loved - and have great respect for their father and show me the same.

I did see a few examples of extremely strange parenting in the LDS Church, but in my day and age, and with the relationships we had, it was very rare. Most of the people we knew and associated with in the LDS Church were plugging along just like we were, giving all we had to our children.

SusieQ#1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Elder Berry Wrote:
>
>
> As a convert, married to a TBM, I never
> considered the religion reducing me to a "breeder"
> nor was my husband and I remote. We were a
> partnership and worked together. Our children all
> know they were loved - and have great respect for
> their father and show me the same.

I'm not diminishing your experience. I believe Mormonism reduces its members to breeders and tithe payers. This hypothesis of mine fits my experience and what I see in regards to LDS Inc. in my life.

If you don't think they do, that's ok. I see them as reducing people to their least common denominator and bottom line - breeders and tithe payers.

My parents did both and do both with relish and glory in their future degree of glory.