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Posted by: Ex-CultMember ( )
Date: February 05, 2016 05:12PM

If they read it, how did it go?

http://cesletter.com/

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Posted by: seekyr ( )
Date: February 05, 2016 05:29PM

Unless they were already having doubts, they'd probably read a few lines then toss it down for being anti mormon.

I remember as a BYU student someone passing out flyers just outside campus that had all sorts of BoM problems listed on it. As soon as I could see what it was about, I tossed it in the trash can. I can remember thinking, "Oooh! Anti Mormon stuff - the NERVE of those people! They shouldn't be allowed to hand out such trash!"

But you never know WHO may be harboring doubts and might be more open to reading a few facts.

I kind of think something SHORTER to give them a taste might be better. And then link to the longer document. I watched the Youtube video about it first. That was really interesting and you could also learn the back story and see the sincerity in which it was written.

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Posted by: Hedning ( )
Date: February 06, 2016 01:26AM

Most TBMs if they don't have an open mind will view it as a large piece of unbalanced anti-mormonism and just read a bit and let it go.

In talking with TBMS it's best to start with a few key points.

1. The "Impudent Fraud" of the book of abraham is a pretty good starting point
2. The book of mormon and DNA, Linguistic, archaeological and text analysis proof it's a fraud.
3. THe real story behind the "restoration of the priesthood" … it didn't happen when they say it did, and they went back and rewrote history to add this new doctrine.
4. The mess of stories Brother Joseph made up about heavenly messengers before the first vision story was ever written.
5. Josephs letters to young girls recruiting them to polygamy.


Keep it simple.

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Posted by: Off the fence ( )
Date: February 06, 2016 11:15PM

Hedning Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 3. THe real story behind the "restoration of the
> priesthood" … it didn't happen when they say it
> did, *and they went back and rewrote history to add
> this new doctrine*.

Absolutely this, as well as the gradual development/fabrication of the First Vision over time. When I was a TBM, these ones shook me the hardest.

Book of Abraham and polygamy easy to brush to the side since they're mostly uninvolved in the typical practice of the religion. Priesthood and the First Vision however are most relevant in the day-to-day life of a TBM.

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Posted by: Ex-CultMember ( )
Date: February 13, 2016 01:51PM

Hedning Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Most TBMs if they don't have an open mind will
> view it as a large piece of unbalanced
> anti-mormonism and just read a bit and let it go.
>
>
> In talking with TBMS it's best to start with a
> few key points.
>
> 1. The "Impudent Fraud" of the book of abraham is
> a pretty good starting point
> 2. The book of mormon and DNA, Linguistic,
> archaeological and text analysis proof it's a
> fraud.
> 3. THe real story behind the "restoration of the
> priesthood" … it didn't happen when they say it
> did, and they went back and rewrote history to add
> this new doctrine.
> 4. The mess of stories Brother Joseph made up
> about heavenly messengers before the first vision
> story was ever written.
> 5. Josephs letters to young girls recruiting them
> to polygamy.
>
>
> Keep it simple.

But that's the beauty of the CES Letter. The author DOES keep it simple. He writes about the same things you just mentioned above and does a great job summarizing the main problems. Its an easy read. AND he comes from the viewpoint of a sincere and devout member of the church.

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Posted by: NormaRae ( )
Date: February 08, 2016 12:49PM

Nope. Does no good for someone who does not want to know facts because it's much more comforting to live on emotions.

Now, if someone is questioning or doubting and wants to do some honest inquiry, I would recommend it.

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Posted by: Ex-cultmember ( )
Date: February 12, 2016 09:33PM

I wasn't "questioning or doubting" when I read my first "anti" book but it CRUSHED my testimony. So I'm gonna have to disagree with you. There's plenty of examples of Mormons who didn't start questioning until they read the truth.

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Posted by: nomonomo ( )
Date: February 13, 2016 03:55PM

My niece posted something about looking for something to read (in general). I sent her a link to the CESletter! She replied that if I kept it up that she would no longer speak to me at family functions. Given their distance, we seldom see these TBMs anyway, so it's no big loss, but she ultimately unfriended me on FB, as did her mom.

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Posted by: Doubting Thomas ( )
Date: February 13, 2016 06:42PM

As I've pointed out on another thread previously, and a few in the past, the CES Letter has been done in audio form via Podcast.

Check it out here. Just send this link to your iPhone using friends and see if they check it out.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/letter-to-a-ces-director/id916869444?mt=2

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: February 13, 2016 07:20PM

Mormonism is so absurd that it's difficult for outsiders to really understand the mind lock that Mormonism has on people. The level of indoctrination and thought control is so high that it's almost impossible to get people to think critically about Mormonism.

The Mormon Entity is like a big dam that's starting to crack and slowly but surely people come to see the Entity for what it is. Even in North Korea people risk their lives to see television programs and films from the outside.

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Posted by: Ex-CultMember ( )
Date: February 14, 2016 09:18PM

Wow, no one out there has ever got a Mormon to read it?

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Posted by: Losing her ( )
Date: February 16, 2016 12:41PM

I got my wife to "read" it.

She didn't see any problems with the church.

Just "anti" half truths/lies. Here's persecution, proving the church. Flecks of history. I knew all of that; everyone knows all of that. Continuing revelation fixes that. God's ways aren't our ways.

It was as effective as an archer vs a tank.

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Posted by: cognitivedissonance ( )
Date: February 16, 2016 12:56PM

I served on a Jury where the defendant was charged with substance abuse and trafficking. She claimed to be innocent. The evidence was profoundly against her. Why did she claim to be innocent in light of the evidence?

When the verdict was read, she was really put out that her side of the story wasn't considered. Basically, persecution complex supported her innocence.

Best time to slip the CES Letter into someone's drink is when they are experiencing Cog-Dis. Until then they will believe they are right (persecution) and the world is wrong.

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