I've had a strange hot/cold relationship with a TBM. I'm ashamed of myself for doing something out of the ordinary at least for me, letting him hold my heart as though it was his. Sometimes he treated it like a precious gem, sacred and worthy of love and protection. Other times he'd step over it leave it out in the cold, something to take or leave, of little value. I still cannot have a thought of him without tears streaming down my face. It's finally sinking in (like a hot knife I might add), that he may tell me I'm nice and pretty, but he will never love me the way I love him. Love is not a foreign concept to me. I've been in love with men who've been incredibly good to me, financial and emotional support. This one though, Often he will speak with me for hours on end sharing many things asking me many personal details as though he is hungry to know everything about me and anxious to share everything he can about himself with me. There's always that wall, though . I just don't want to come up against it anymore. I have been crying for what feels like forever. He says he'll always be there for me and has been there. He tells me I'm beautiful, that he loves my smile, etc. I think it's because I'm not TBM I'm off limits. That's all well and good but what I have felt for him has overwhelmed my entire being. I'm now in the process of forgiving myself for allowing my love for someone to overshadow my love for myself. I feel like I was swept up completely and it was too late when I realized I was doing something potentially hurtful. I never want to regret love, that's what adds to my sadness. I'm glad that I never had actual sex with him. Tonight, I begin one hour at a time of healing. I guess that sounds ridiculous, but one day at a time feels like a stretch. I don't even care who thinks I'm weak or stupid or slutty. I'm sensitive maybe. If you can't respond without saying something mean please say nothing. I'm sharing this very intimate detail with a bunch of strangers because feel alone. Who can I realistically discuss this with? I'm determined not to seek therapy. I already feel foolish enough, and I don't need to add crazy to my already negative feelings surrounding him. I know people will wonder about this, so I'll put it out: in a year never once did he try to convert me. Well not in the religious sense. He did manage to convert me from a pretty confident person into a weak and lost soul who needed him for everything. He did convert me from a person who enjoyed male attention to a person who only cares about his attention. I'm not sure how to undo this.

I never blamed myself for the fact that the heart is always hopeful.

TBM's are incapable of unconditional love: The concept is utterly foreign to them at every level.

The "hot and cold" problem may simply be an indication that he really does not know what he whats, or perhaps worse, he may not even know who he really is. As long as he clings to the church that problem will never be fixed. The church wants him to be "their boy" and not his own man. And the church is prepared to take extreme measures to make sure they have it the way they want it: No threat is too terrible to make, or to carry out, if it keeps him in cult.

I have not been in the situation you are in. But, to be in a relationship with someone where you are "giving it all" and the other person isn't willing to "give it all back" can't be good.

I cannot relate to your problem is a specific way. However, I have been hurt and alone and I am sorry for your pain.

lovechild Wrote:
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> TBM's are incapable of unconditional love: The
> concept is utterly foreign to them at every
> level.

Ummm... What? A lot of us on this board practiced unconditional love both before and after leaving. A lot of us are still loved by TBM's after leaving. Is the latter common? Sadly no.

But your statement really overreaches.

That said, I'm very sorry,OP. Time does heal, especially if we want it to. Hugs to you. ❤️

Your instincts about why he is running hot and cold on you are likely on target. But when in doubt, ask. He is the only one who can tell you.

Mormonism is not like the mainstream Christian churches. It is a very enveloping religion and lifestyle. Some people who are not Mormon can make a relationship with a TBM work, but the odds are very low. For all of his life, this man has been trained to take a faithful Mormon woman to the temple, a place where your own parents, siblings, aunts, uncles and grandparents could not see you wed because they don't meet Mormon "standards." Does this seem right to you?

My best guess is that this man knows very well that he doesn't want to marry you, but for whatever reason has been stringing you along. He probably does like you very much and/or have stronger feelings for you.

I detect a lack of self-esteem in your post. I can relate to it since I was once in a similar position. In your shoes I would forget about this man, and instead work on developing a career that will pay you well enough so that you don't have to look to a man for financial support. When you feel better about yourself and your ability to provide for your own needs, you will start to pick men who are better for you.

though I never promised him anything. He knew right up front that the relationship was going nowhere. We can't pick and choose who we fall in love with.

I married someone gay. He made a lot of promises, which never came to be.

Twenty-eight years later, the nonmormon got divorced and we've been together 11 years now. I'm about to pass up the length my marriage lasted.

It is important not to beat yourself up over this. It doesn't do any good. I would actually suggest, yes, therapy. I don't know how I could have possibly made it to this day without my therapist. You may only need to talk to someone ONCE or a few times so they can help you see things you may not be seeing about the whole situation.

Getting some help from a therapist is NOT an admission or an indication that you are "crazy." A good therapist can guide you into finding release from the emotional turmoil that you are in. It is likely to be much more effective than posting to a bunch of strangers on the Internet.

Many of us have benefitted from talking with a professional therapist, even if it's only a few sessions.

I agree with this. Going to a therapist doesn't mean you're "crazy," it's often a good thing. Many people benefit from talking to a therapist, even if it's not a long term thing.

So, the responses thus far are thought provoking, guys. Though, I don't see myself happy as an independent career woman as one post metioned. I also want to clarify that I'm all for therapy, but it think for myself at this time I want, maybe I need to feel as though I'm strong enough to handle these feelings. I could be wrong, and I may end up seeking therapy. This relationship seems to have me feeling as though I can barely function Another time in the past I said I'd walk away forever, and ended up right back. My brain is saying: go, as long as you aren't TBM ....my heart is saying otherwise. What will happen, I'm not 100%, but last time this happened and I tried to stay away I could barely eat. While I value being healthy and eating well, I had to force myself to eat the smallest bowl of food each day and everyone around me was upset. So even though I'm all about being thin, when I tried before to remove myself from him I started wasting away to the point my family and even my ex boyfriendwanted me to go away for treatment. I could see it might seem odd, me posting for strangers, but there is a luxury to anonymity. It lessens shame when you're feeling like a fool! Thanks again, all.

It took me a long time to figure out that no matter how much you love someone, if he doesn't love you back, it doesn't matter. Love can't be one-sided. Get a copy of the book, "He's Just Not That Into You" and take it to heart.

As for not being an "Independent Career Woman," pray tell, what is your alternative? Even if you eventually become a stay at home wife, or a stay at home mom, prudence dictates that you should have the capacity to support yourself at a job that pays well. That way if your husband dies, or is unemployed, or disabled, you can support your family.

Think it won't happen? My mom was widowed in her early 40s and had to go back to work full time. I know of two teachers who are the sole support of their families because their husbands lost their jobs. I've known other teachers that had to support their disabled husbands. One not only taught school but also had her own tutoring business. Thank goodness they have all obtained the skills to provide a decent income.

You posts make it seem like you are waiting for Prince Charming. I can see why you were attracted to a Mormon man. But in all honesty, unless you are willing to convert, it likely won't be happening for you.

Summer, I was married before when I was very young. He was a wonderful man my true prince, never to truly be replaced. He was much older and ended up passing away:( though nothing prepares you emotionally, financially how I prepared was with a lot of life insurance, we even had a disability policy. Even at 21, I was smart enough to realize that if my husband passed I wouldn't be able to support myself.. (Maybe it was less smarts and more that he was twenty five years my senior so it seemed like a natural thing to do). I also don't have children or stepchildren which eases the financial expectation. If I married again, even with finances out of the way, it would be to the same type of man, one who cares for and protects me.It's funny you talked about the book,"not that into you" I purchased that book for a younger cousin years and years ago. I read it myself and wished I'd had it as a teenager when I had a foolish relationship with a total loser. Also, I agree I've always been the waiting for Prince Charming type. I've had a few princes so I believe that it can happen. I suppose that nature would make me attracted to a Mormon man, as they seem to exude that "prince charming" heir. Can it happen forever is the remaining question? I know every feminist reading this probably hates me, but this is who I am. I will do all of the housekeeping and errands, but I don't want to be out in the world. It doesn't make me a bad person.

The "Church" will always be the 800 pound gorilla in the room that is your relationship.

One of the hardest lessons I've learned is

Sometimes, if you really love someone, you have to walk away...

Especially if the person you love is yourself.

Most of us have been there. I have to be slightly blunt, he doesn't love you and he most definitely doesn't respect you. You've done the hard part, recognizing that you have to cut him off for your own sake. Don't respond to him, block his emails if you can, don't answer his number.

It'll be ok, I promise. If you keep with the ignoring him then within 2 months or so you'll cringe when you think about him and how unworthy he is, rather than long to be with him.

Again though, don't feel bad about yourself for feeling this way. Most of us have been there and we're not all fools.

I like that 2-month idea. It is enough time to open your eyes. It is enough time for the pain to ease, a bit.

For now, don't beat yourself up for hurting. You might hate me for saying this, but, IMO, it is for the best. Mormons are individuals, some better than others, bla-bla--but I can tell you this: A Mormon man will never respect you as a woman. The Mormon cult is based on polygamy, and, now, they still believe in polygamy in Heaven. Women will never be given the priesthood. What's worse is that your Mormon mother-in-law will resent you for not being a Mormon. You would have to break up with this guy, eventually, and it's better to do it now, before you get in any deeper.

I've been married to two Mormon men. It is not a "wall" you run up against; it is a "void." There's no love there. No empathy. No interest in a woman as an individual.

You are not crazy! A person can feel their self-esteem being eroded away--it's like slowly dying. Mormonism is a soul-sucking cult. Mormonism teaches the members--especially the missionaries--how to manipulate others, how to threaten and bully, how to hard-sell. Your Mormon ex-boyfriend has manipulated you into believing he is a superior being. Arrogance does attract some people, and you are not to blame.

Get psychological help, if you can! Therapy speeds up the recover process. You are at a time in life, when you have many opportunities and many wide choices of jobs and love-interests to choose from. Don't waste more time and tears on this cult member, than you need to.

(((hugs))) Sorry it hurts. Human beings sometimes need to have their love returned.

Thank you Breeze. I keep wondering what is it he feels if not love and respect?? He does a lot for me and to be honest he isn't one arrogant in any way. I should know I am very turned off by that trait. You would know more about the " cult". One thing I have noticed is he tends to blame the woman in a man woman situation. I don't get why anyone would even want to be part of this religion to be honest.i just may get therapy, maybe a few sessions. It feels hopeless right now.

Bruisedwings........
I'm so sorry you have to go thru this. You are an incredible person and you have loved someone with all of you heart. It sounds like your relationship is over. ( unless I read it wrong). You gave ALL of your heart to this person. You are now grieving. Please , Please give yourself time to heal. I went through an
experience similar to this. I'd given this person 2 years of my life. ( from 1983 to 85 ). (this person was a TBM , like your boyfriend ). When I realized that the relationship was OVER , the emotional/pain was almost unbearable. I had tears long after I thought there was no tears left. I remember being at work one day. A sweet lady who I worked with , who knew what I'd gone thru , looked at me and asked me how I was doing. I smiled & said 'just fine'. She said "Oh sweetie......go look in the mirror". I went to the bathroom & when I looked into the mirror, I had a face FULL of tears. I didn't even realize that I was crying. I had given & given to this relationship until I was absolutely PARCHED. Please , please let God carry you for a while . Not the Mormon God. But the God who created YOU. Who loves you with all of His heart. Please treat yourself with gentleness , kindness , & love. May the Gods & Goddesses in Heaven shower you with peace & heal your heart. May they take away all of your pain. But the only way they can do , is for you to be really gentle & tender with yourself & your heart.
I'm sending lots of hugs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2015 11:45PM by momto15kids.

I dated a TBM once who started to become very manipulative. I'm certain if I had stayed with him I would be in exactly the position you're in now. Even his parents tried to "rekindle my faith." His mom basically made me go out to dinner with her because it was obvious I needed I TBM mom in my life. The red flags in my mind lit up pretty quickly.

As much as it hurts, it's good that you're starting to see the red flags in your relationship. I believe the greatest thing someone can learn to do in this life is to truly love themselves and others.

As others have suggested, I have to agree, the more you can just cut him out cold turkey, the better. It will hurt like Hell, but it is necessary to truly start to heal from the damage he has done.

Also, I understand wanting to sort things out yourself. Still consider therapy. It can further help you unwind the harmful thoughts you have in your mind.

You aren't a fool. Emotions are powerful things. Not a single thing you said in your OP sounds foolish to me. You are a person who has made a mistake. Remember that you made the best decisions you could based on the information available to you at the time. Be kind to yourself. Nobody is perfect.

It's going to be difficult working through your emotions, but recognizing what he is doing to you is the best place to start. Acknowledging that it is harming you is a very intelligent thing to realize.

I truly don't believe that all love is healthy. It takes two to make a relationship healthy and you aren't getting the support you need.

A therapist could truly help you sort through your intrusive thoughts and give you tools to fight them. The main idea is to recognize them and then replace them with good thoughts after telling yourself the initial thought is wrong.

tl:dr; Be nice to yourself. You're not a fool. You're human and seeing the red flags in your relationship is quite intelligent, especially given all the emotions involved. Whatever happens, you are the only person that I can promise will be with you for your whole life, so be nice to you. You got in this situation using the best info you had at the time. Now you know better and it's time to try making new choices. It will be hard and you may slide back; emotions aren't always so easy to control. Just re-learn to love yourself slowly. <3

One saying that helped me IMMENSELY when I was left parched dry & my heart in pieces back in the 1980's , was this

'Time heals all wounds , and wounds all heels ".

Write this saying down & put it where you'll see it often.
Also.......remember, in regards to this boyfriend , that :

'What goes around , Comes around'. Then, get your coke , or coffee, or whatever drink you want , & get your popcorn , & sit back & just 'watch' (figuratively ) & see , in the future years , exactly what happens to this x boyfriend. ( Trust me , it WILL come back & bite him in the ass !!!)

I will always think to what could have been if he wasn't in this , what seems like a rigid cult. He is though, and likely always will be. At this point I keep going back and forth part of me doesn't want to give up. I realize though, that I will be hurt either way. Maybe that's me being negative, but even if I got what I think I wanT, I could never assimilate when I came to certain aspects of the cult. For example if anyone thinks I'd be caught dead in those ridiculous garments under my bra, they're dead wrong. Really, the worst thing though, is the way SO many things in the Mormon lifestyle seem to be a total FACDE. That really more than anything else, is what would break my spirit. You guys have no idea how helpful you've been. I do feel there is a part of him that would love to keep it hot with me, but that he is so brainwashed. The only way I'd likely win him over fully is to become a Mormon. As I've told him ( again he's never tried to convert me but has mentioned due to certain characteristics of mine that I'd be a great one)I like some of what they believe, but I would never convert into anything with rules and expectations that stringent. I'm trying to repeat to myself, "Hurt now or hurt for the rest of my life." I want so much to be angry with him, but I really do hope he has the best life. I feel like if he was unhappy I would be unhappy for him. What a waste of such passionate and beautiful love on my part.