Trying to respond to TBM who has been texting scriptures + principal to get out of it 5 days/week (from their seminary class). Now that they know we don't believe in Mormonism, they are appealing to us on 'at least' believing in and practicing Christianity. In other words, the daily scripture texting shouldn't be offensive because it 'has nothing to do with LDS church' in his mind.

We would both identify as 'agnostic' (please no lectures on whether or not that in reality is possible). We don't believe in, or support the Bible as 'full truth', or even accurate. We are trying to get the point across that this is how we feel. Anybody have thoughts, ideas, etc on getting this across clearly and concisely to a very stubborn, narcissistic TBM? (To them, non-belief is inconceivable).

What are the 'minimum tenets' one might need to believe to consider themself a 'Christian'?

Lately, I've come to this conclusion:
All you have to do is think you are. That's all.

You pick and choose what it is that resonates with you to call yourself Christian.

I know Christians who don't believe in Jesus or the Bible, but they consider themselves Christian. Why argue with them since they are just as capable of deciding what is important about being a Christian as anyone else?

Clicking your heels together 3 times and saying, "I am a Christian" is as good a reason as any. If someone wants to identify as a Christian, all righty.

All the various requirements of Christianity make every Christian a hypocrite at some level. They can just say, "Oh that part isn't important." There's always someone else who thinks they are the "real" Christian.

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lately, I've come to this conclusion:
> All you have to do is think you are. That's all.

I'm in complete agreement. You made the point very well.

Minimum core tenets?

I'd say a belief in sin and
a belief in the supernatural
forgiveness of such sin.

That much, at a minimum, will get
the believer's "foot in the door"
of most churches -- and perhaps a
few synagogues and mosques as well.

There are probably even a few
self-identified "Christian" groups
in which the believer could profess
that his/her sins were forgiven by
the Rev. Sun Moon, Jim Jones, or
David Koresh -- but somewhere along
the line, at least a passing mention
of Jesus the son of Mary would be
expected.

Beyond that, look at the catholic creeds.

I would say that to be a follower of Christ, a Christian, you would have to believe that an -entity- of that name walked the earth.

To believe that he, in some manner, was the actual son of a god, you would have to believe in the supernatural.

The sticky part, the part that escapes many, is that these revelations must be claimed to be personal, i.e., you have met or heard Jesus directly. Otherwise, all you "believe in" is other people making that claim.

Without these minimum beliefs, it cannot be said to be "following Christ."

There are all types of apologies for why "lesser" forms of belief may be called "Christian," but the name defines itself.

Christ is not a name, it is a title
it means 'anointed'
it comes from the greek, and - amongst other things - was used for athletes who were anointed with oil



to answer the base question, I would say a christian can be anyone who believes in a guy named jesus, and that he was born to be - or chosen to be - a direct representative of gawd

this causes a bit of a cross over with the muslims who believe Jeebus was a prophet.
there is also a lot of self-designation and if a muslim would choose to call themselves christian rather than muslim, who am I to argue

Christianity has always been diverse even in NT times. Peter and James had different ideas although the differences are minimized in Acts.Later we had people who believed Christ was fully human, others who believed he was fully divine,some who believed he was born as the son of God, others who believed he was adopted at his baptism. Some denied that he actually died on the cross and that he was replaced by someone else.The Council of Nicaea tried to define Christian but there have always been people who didnt fit the mold.

Most Christians today would say that you have to believe in the Trinity and Grace, but again there are those who disagree.Personally, if someone says he is a Christian I will accept that even if I consider his believes strange. If Jesus really was divine, he can sort it out. If not, it doesnt really matter. In short, it isnt black and white and thhere is no easy answer and never has been. Ask Paul and James

A belief in Christ; I mean it is right there in the name.

To that end, Mormonism is Christianity. One can argue not true Christianity, but I will argue that there is no true Christianity.

But Muslims believe in Christ but do not consider themselves Christian. Also, what do you need to believe about Christ?. The Virgin Bith, Resurrection? Therenare many liberal Christians whobthink thosenare myths. Marcus Borg for instance.I think it is more about what you condsider yourself to be.

Sorry about the ns and bs everywhere. I am on my Kindle and should have done some proofreading.

This site states differently.

http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-10.htm

The OP asked for minimum core beliefs. There are all sorts of religions that ignore much and varied parts of the NT.

If you believe that Jesus was son of a supernatural being, then his route to earth could have been supernatural as well. Supernatural beings are not constrained by physical law or human imagination; there are simply no rules or limits.

Muslims believe in "Jesus" -- not "Christ."
They consider the Jesus character to be a prophet, not "the Christ" (the Messiah).

Muslims believe Jesus was both prophet and messiah

Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They may have some differences with the definition
and role of the messiah but the Koran specifically
Refersnto Jesus as messiah

bona dea unregistered Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
>
> They may have some differences with the
> definition
> and role of the messiah but the Koran
> specifically
> Refersnto Jesus as messiah

He's considered "messiah" ONLY to the Israelites, not everyone.

Look into the Salafist Muslim belief in the
End Times, when the world's wicked are finally
defeated and the Righteous inherit the earth.

Jesus returns -- rather like in the Book of the
Revelation -- not as the Messiah, but as the
agent of Allah who presides over that victory.

A Muslim who chose his/her words carefully, and
related that doctrine in a Southern Baptist
congregation, could probably "pass" as a pious
Christian, for at least a few Sundays. Sooner
or later the infidelity/apostasy would be exposed,
but if being accepted as a "Christian" involves
mouthing certain beliefs, practically anybody
could fake it, until rigidly interrogated.

Apparently it's believing oneself Christian.

I think that everyone gets to label themselves, and define what the label means.

No one gets to label others.

LDS can't decide that FLDS are not Mormon. Evangelicals can't decide that Mormons are not Christians. Exmos cannot decide liberal Mormons aren't real Mormons. It is a form of bullying that we all like to try.

That said, why on earth are you trying to talk to this person? It is like giving medicine to the dead to argue with a closed mind.

I would tell this person to knock it off. If necessary, block his number.

Each Christian church will have its own standard for what constitutes a Christian in their eyes. But the truth is that many Christians tend to think for themselves and form their own opinion about what makes them a Christian (or not.)

To me, at a minimum, it means accepting Jesus as a spiritual teacher. To many, it goes beyond that or well beyond that.

Does that include churches with gay pastors who perform same sex marriages?

Of course that's not the answer, but it seems enough bigots use Christianity to justify their hatred.

I realize you were being flippant. I was simply reminding you that, like all groups, Christians are diverse and not all are homophobes. Some support gay rights.

IMHO, You find a few lines in the bible that match your beliefs, and disregard everything that contradicts your beliefs, and you are a Christian.

It shouldn't really matter what you believe or don't believe, he should respect your request to not text these things to you, imo.

I think the minimum is just trying to lead a life like Jesus taught. Be a nice person. Basically, the opposite of what all organized religion does. Most of it seems to be steeped in control and empire building which ironically is what Jesus fought against...

St. Francis is about the only true Christian out there.

Kindness Honesty, Respect for others.
Charity (good samaritan) for those who need it.

You Know; things out-of-bounds for LDS.

By their fruits will ye know them.

In the end, it doesn't matter what you call yourself, but how you act. Someone can call oneself a Christian and even say s/he believes in Christ, but that doesn't necessarily make one a Christian by the criteria of Jesus.

I really wouldn't bother trying to engage them on a theological level. I would just say something along the lines of, "Thank you for your concern, but our beliefs are really none of your business. You have shared your message and now it's up to us to decide if we accept it or not. If we change our minds, we'll let you know, but we'd really appreciate it if you would respect our beliefs -- whether you understand them or not -- as we respect yours."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:49PM by Pista.