He is young still, only 13. But my oldest grandson appears to be gay, at least outwardly, and very superficially at this point. He's a wonderful, brilliant boy, a straight-A student and high achiever. He is kind, honest, and compassionate, and everyone loves him. I don't think that there is reason to worry that he will not be accepted, even by TBM family. But it will be a shocker to some in his family.

His father is a ranking and important priesthood holder, but is also kind, brilliant, honest, and compassionate. I don't fear that his sone will not be loved or will be rejected somehow, especially by DD or by his grandmother. But DD's husband's cousin is one of the married LDS gay men marched out in front of the LDS media and touted by the church as a good example that "same-sex attraction" can be overcome with a good wife and patient family. I just worry that some day, when my grandson does come out, that they will try to squeeze him into this same box.

It's funny that I was just voicing this, my belief that he is gay, to a couple of ex-Mo relatives only a month or so ago, and they said that they had remarked to each other about 6 years ago that my grandson had to be gay. They both work with many gay people, and have very sensitive gay-dars. They claim to always be right, and I think they probably are. But I was very surprised that my DW (the grandmother) recognized and voiced a couple of years ago that my grandson was likely gay, and she also wondered what would become of him when the Great and Revealing day came. She will very likely completely accept him no matter what and however it should go. But she's very TBM and would still be one to believe that his gayness could be overcome by hitching him to a good woman and making him natural father to kids. Why? Because this is what Jeebus tells the "prophet." And if the prophet told us all to stick cobs in our butts, she'd do it because Jeebus must have told him so, and Jeebus has his reasons. So I have reason to worry a bit. (Not about cobs, of course, but... Anyway...)

If my gay-dar is working properly (never sure it is), I would say that DD's FIL is a gay, closeted TBM man. I'm afraid that, if my grandson came out, people might march DD's FIL around as a TBM example, too, pointing out that he, after all, raised a family of four himself, and would expect that dear grandson should do the same.

Whether or not he is, I think it will help him to know his grandfather is completely accepting of everyone and encourages them to be who they are.

If he is gay and comes out in a hostile environment like the church, it can be very difficult. Even if his family "accepts" him, he will know they wish he wasn't gay and that they do not approve of him finding love and living a life like them.

My gay BIL still talks of the mental damage he endured. The guilt and rejection was one thing, but the constant "you're a sinner" part really hurt him. The only thing he had going was one relative who let him know he was fine and not to pay any attention to the guilt trips and baggage the Mormons are dishing out. Still, it alienated him from his family.

I don't know how your situation will play out, but I hope he knows where to go for sanity and complete acceptance. He will need to realize his family is held hostage by the church and that it is not his fault.

Ignore the others. Just show the boy that YOU are accepting of gays and don't believe in "curing" them. Make sure he knows where YOU stand. If others feel like you, they will do the same. It's up to him to understand who's fully on his side, and who's not. He will take note of the good and bad guys.

I agree with dagny and Mateo Pastor. Let him know that you love him whether he's Gay or not, and that you believe that being an active Gay man is a good thing. That no people should have to suppress that important and perfectly good part of themselves. *

If the kid is 13, he's very likely completely aware of his sexuality, and very certainly completely aware of the Mormon take on being Gay. He needs all the support that he can get --- it's terrible imagining that you are not just different, but *bad* different, *evil* different. And that you are all alone. And that you will lose all that is good in life because of your evil self. And that you must never let anyone know, or something terrible will happen.

People can go for 5, 10, 20 years running all of that awful stuff through their brains, and hating themselves for something that is perfectly good and natural and harmless.

Please let the kid know that you know what garbage all of that is. You can do it as a general statement, about people in general. You don't have to make it all about him, personally. Just let him know, right now, how you feel. And, if you possibly can (I know that this can be tricky), whenever you hear someone saying something disparaging or ignorant or harmful where the kid can hear it, speak out against the ignorance and hate.

*(As a side note, I have exceptionally good Gaydar, and even so, there have been a few times when I --- and everyone else I know --- were absolutely certain that a certain person was Gay, based on behavior, appearance, and so forth. And we were totally wrong. So you might want to begin by referring to Gay people in general, rather than to this one kid in particular. Just in case everybody is wrong again. It still doesn't hurt to speak out in favor of kindness and compassion and against bigotry and ignorance.)

Let's just suppose for a minute that the kid is gay as a box of birds at Christmas. If he is participating in the mormon church he will be exposed to soul crushing hatred. It will be both blatant and subtle. He will watch his leaders chuckle when gays are murdered and say something about how they deserved it. He will hear gay jokes around the campfire and not knowing enough to understand how jokes exaggerate or distort believe that his future is grim and dreadful. He will never feel right about himself because he will have heard that it is better that a millstone be tied about his neck and cast into the sea. In fact if your kid, doubts, thinks for themselves, or is different the hatred toward gays will serve as a warning of what can happen to those who differ. The kid is being fed poison. When it takes effect remember that.

There is nothing in mormon church doctrine or practice preventing him from going on a mission, getting his endowments, adopting and having a child sealed to him, even without marriage, serving in callings, and holding a TR, so long as he lives the commandments and can truthfully answer the TR questions.

" ... adopting and having a child sealed to him, even without marriage ... "


Do you know of cases where this has actually happened? Just curious.

The Mormon church does NOT allow anyone to be sealed to only one parent. Period.

I didn't think so. Seems like it would go contrary to the definition of what Mormonism considers a "family" to be.

Unfortunately, the scenario described by Satan's Little Helper is far more likely to be what actually happens than the scenario that you describe, lolly 18.

if he confesses he is gay.

They will not send him, period.

I can confirm this is actual policy coming from the 1st Presidency. I know of a 19 year old recently denied a mission because he openly professed to be gay. Totally celebate, no mistakes. The 1st Presidency denied because in their words "it's just too risky and too much of a temptation to be with the other Elders"

You KNOW this to be factual, lolly 18?
I wanna SEE IT in either your Standard Works OR in a statement by
A current apostle.
Otherwise...it's just you spouting an unsupported (therefore worthless) OPINION!

Sadly, most of the damage has already been done to this poor boy.

If he is gay, he has grown up like a Jewish child hiding in Nazi Germany.

He has been raised in a vehemently anti-gay environment, and I promise you that he picks up every day on the subtle AND overt homophobia expressed in an infinite amount of ways.

He has tried in an entirely futile endeavor, to change his sexual orientation as a survival strategy.

He has already been through a hell that straight people cannot imagine.

When he eventually "comes out", that will actually be the beginning of the healing.

At that point, the homophobia that he will undoubtedly encounter in the church, and probably his family, will actually help move him OUT of the Mormon cult.

+1. There are things you can only know if you have been there and done that. A straight person can never walk a mile in a gay person's shoes.

I suppose I'm anon for this: The kind of acceptance this kid will get from an "openly accepting and loving TBM family" is not true acceptance. You know that. He will get that true acceptance from you, the grandparent, because you "get it." Your post warms my heart. I found out after my grandfather's death that he felt like you do, that he "knew." He knew I was supposed to be me--all of me. I hope you find a way for you grandson to know that he is supposed to be "all of him."

The new position of the Mormon church has made it worse, not better. Your Grandson's family positioning themselves as being supportive of his need to shoulder the burden of being SSA and remaining TBM will cut him to pieces like knife all the while making him feel that he should never show the devastation of not being his whole self to those around him.

I hope he finds his way out of that mess.

And how can anyone be so sure that he or any other kid is "gay?" Does he flick his wrist, insist on wearing pink,... Talk through his nose. Oh I know,... he is left handed? That's got to be the sure sign of the nail.

Seriously people stop judging innocent kids. I've mentored and known 100's of kids, at a job I once had. Not one was what I would classify as "gay."

(Some came out later though, I'll admit)

Poopstone,
I tend to agree that when people talk about gaydar they usually mean that they identify the "target" as being effeminate. It is offensive and often misguided. On the other hand, there are plenty of stories of young kids trying to talk to parents or others as they are trying to figure it out for themselves. As I pointed out in my post, ANY kid who is different is aware of the hatred. When the see how gay kids are treated they immediately take precautions to make sure they will not be the target. They become homophobic little assholes just to prove how well they fit in. Or they hide their disinterest in basketball and suppress their interest in theatre, music, dance, or freakin chess because the writing on the wall is clear, if you are different in any way you will be rejected. E kid who begins to question the insanity of it all for ANY reason is at risk.

Hmmm? Let's take Mormonism by it's own tennets: http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/08/02/eugenics/

Any effeminate man should not marry or reproduce, or else his illness will be passed on....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2015 08:08PM by dydimus.

Holy Cow! As if Mormonism's past wasn't scary enough. What a gem.

Heil, George Q. Cannon.

Potentially gay young man's grandpa - I recommend saying kind things about gay people every chance you get. That soup commercial referenced in another thread with two dads playing star wars and saying "I am your father" with their child. Can you comment on what a nice family they are?

Do you have any gay friends whose accomplishments you can celebrate while finding a subtle way to indicate that not only are they accomplished, they happen to be gay.

Regardless of who does or does not come out, it sounds like your family might benefit from some cheer leading for lgbtq in general.

When I was in the same situation--people had it figured out but no one said anything exept for the bullies at school--I knew to keep it to myself;to never admit.

The illusion that the world is more accepting now is really an illusion. I recommend anyone keep it to themselves.

If you ever get a chance, without mentioning the subject at hand, maybe have a conversation about how playing your cards close to your chest is a good way to go through life. Keep personal things personal, because, once the information is out there it is not exclusively yours anymore. No one owes anyone their personal information.