I know we like to refer to them all as bozos, dodos, and every other nickname in the book, but I found this interesting. Good luck finding better intellectual resumes.

Thomas S Monson - Has an MBA from BYU.

Henry B Eyring - Received his Doctorate from Harvard Business School. Was a business professor at Stanford.

Dieter F. Uchtdorf - MBA from International Institute for Management Development.

Russell M Nelson - MD from Utah, PhD from Pennsylvania. Performed the 1st open heart surgery in the state of Utah.

Dallin H Oaks - Law Degree from University of Chicago. Law professor and Utah Supreme Court justice. Was a potential prospect for the US Supreme Court under Reagan.

Robert D Hales - MBA from Harvard. Successful executive with Gillette.

Jeffrey R Holland - PhD from Yale in Religious Education.

David A Bednar - PhD from Purdue in Organizational Behavior. Was an associate dean at the University of Arkansas.

Quentin L Cook - Law Degree from Stanford. 27 years as corporate attorney.

D Todd Christofferson - Law Degree from Duke. Was a law clerk to John Sirica during the Watergate Scandal.

Neil L Anderson - MBA from Harvard Business School.

Ronald A Rasband - Chief Operating Officer of Huntsman Corporation.

Gary Stevenson - One of the founders and operators of ICON Health & Fitness.

Dale E Renlund - MD from University of Utah. Residency at Johns Hopkins. Considered an expert in Cardiology in the state of Utah.

Where did Peter, James, John, and Matthew get their MBAs?

JDs and MBAs are not the education of theologians. These are the moneychangers that Jesus threw out of out of the temple.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2015 07:35AM by axeldc.

Yea Verily !

SLABAMBA !!! Yah, where did Peter, James, and John get their degrees from?

....... and how strange that when designate special witness of Christ MORmON ASSpostHOLE Holland was backed into a corner about his filthy foul vile corrupt MORmON religion, he cited his academic credentials, NOT his personal relationship with Jesus.
then again, it was because his academic credentials are all that he had

school of hard knocks of reality setting in as their farce of faith becomes more public on the campus of public opinion.

Their real problem was exchanging their college graduation caps for their temple caps which has proven to cause brain atrophy.

"Good luck finding better intellectual resumes."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxrlcLktcxU

The average priest has a much deeper theological background than the average LDS apostle. Bobo lists a bunch of MBAs and JDs, but those are the moneychangers that Jesus chased out of the temple. Holland is the only one with a degree in religious education, and yet even he can't make a cogent argument for Mormonism.

If you want to judge a religion by its commitment to higher ed, become a Catholic. BYU has nothing on Jesuit schools like Georgetown and BC, and those are only in the US. Catholics have a global religious education system from grade school to grad school.

Business acumen is what the Q15 have. Not a single one of them has studied Greek or Hebrew. No theology degrees.

They are business intelligent not theology intelligent. The jesuits could kick their asses in a religious debate.

But yet God supposedly chose Joseph Smith because he was uneducated.

I really wish God would make up his mind on what he wants.

YOU nailed it !!!

They either:

-- actually believe made-up nonsense that's demonstrably false
-- don't believe, but are lying to maintain power and money

If the former, they're idiots no many how many degrees they have.
If the latter, they're dishonest sacks of shit scamming millions of people.

In either case, I'll continue to loudly criticize them.

Spot on...in terms of probabilities, the latter more likely the case because their education would denote higher intellectual ability - ability that would allow them to quickly assess inconsistency, fraud, credibility issues, etc.

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They either:
>
> -- actually believe made-up nonsense that's
> demonstrably false
> -- don't believe, but are lying to maintain power
> and money
>
> If the former, they're idiots no many how many
> degrees they have.
> If the latter, they're dishonest sacks of shit
> scamming millions of people.
>
> In either case, I'll continue to loudly criticize
> them.

ok, my vote is with dishonest sacks of shit. eh?

Of course, religious leaders of any ilk and of any religion can be dicks, as we have learned. If I have learned anything over the last 7 or 8 years it's that religion has nothing to do with ethics or positive behaviour.

I am not convinced that any of these men are actual "believers," only inasmuch as it suits them. They may not actually believe in the 1st and 2nd temple endowments, but they are no promised to be gods, and that's good enough for a businessman with a hefty ego. One thing you can notice is that only Holland has any kind of degree indicative religion. Two are MDs, which says nothing to Americans, because in the states all MDs are primarily businessmen; only secondarily are they surgeons and caregivers. Ao all save for Holland, who is a real first-class dick, are lawyers and businessmen, something that really deviates from teachings found in the New Testament. But then again, we shouldn't blame the Mormons for this, because they have only the loosest of connections to the Bible--which is true only insofar as it is "correctly translated." Anything that indicates a problem with Mormonism is obviously translated incorrectly.

No, no, no.

ICON Health and Fitness does not constitute an "intellectual resume."

Nelson's PhD was from Minnesota, not Pennsylvania.

Holland's degree in Religious Education was from BYU, not Yale.

They are educated enough to know that the church is a perfect business venture. No taxes, no shareholder meetings, and the best part: the employees pay them! And as a bonus they are worshiped. Is it really any wonder why religion sticks around when it has been discredited again and again?

There is not much diversity in the academic qualifications of the top 12 leaders.They are mostly business or law degrees.There are no linguists or archaeologists or Egyptologists in the leadership.It is largely corporate careers which or being a corporate lawyer which qualifies as entry to the top tier of Mormon leadership.

Who agrees ?

I agree. John Gee for Apostle!

This is why they are so dangerous. They are smart ...like a fox.
And I agree with Mr. Faust. It is pretty telling that the overwhelming majority are business men or attorneys. Exactly what the mormon church needs to run the corporation.
Richard Nixon was an attorney too.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2015 07:16AM by antilehinephi.

None of the top brethren are qualified in any area of study like Egyptology which would lead to scholastic questioning.Gordon Hinckley was the exception by having a masters degree in English.

Personally, I have never questioned the intelligence of any of the 15. I DO question their honesty and integrity.

Throughout history, most truly evil people have also been very intelligent.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2015 07:47AM by CrispingPin.

While you think you are being clever, what you've done is shown how focused they are on money. If Christ were real, he would have had a variable array of many educational disciplines, i.e. education, sociality, humanities, etc. All you've done is show them for who they truly are - money grubbing scammers.

I don't think they are stupid or idiots. In fact, it's more of the opposite - but not in a nice way. They, along with a huge team of professionals and their mega-bucks (thanks to donations), seem to be constantly planning and controlling and manipulating.

I don't respect them because I don't trust them to put the needs of people ahead of the profits of the corporation. To me, it's that whole lack of transparency. Not just financial transparency, which is bad enough, but religious transparency. This is what we are saying to do, we're not saying why, just do it.

So if I otherwise believed in the LDS Church, but could pick the kind of people that lead it, hmmmmm who would I choose? Well this is actually rather difficult because I just don't believe in organized religion anymore, but I would certainly have more respect for a church that was lead by men AND WOMEN from all walks of life that had an impressive resume of SERVICE to people. You'd have to have some business people and lawyers, yes, but they would work FOR the church, not run it.

[added at edit] AND . . . the leaders, because it would be a full-time job, would receive a regular salary - not a huge CEO salary - and all salaries and benefits would be made public and would also be voted on by the membership.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2015 08:05AM by seekyr.

MBAs are no picnic and they require a certain skill set, but they don't actually require a lot of "intellectual" prowess. They require business knowledge, statistics, etc.--and often, connections--not intellectualism or a whole lot of critical thinking.

I would say the one exception to that would be Jeffrey R Holland.

Mormonism requires memorization, strict adherence to dogma, and intellectual rigidity. All of those are useful for medical, business, and law school. That's not to be insulting, just to say that what most people considers "intellectual" requires a lot of flexibility, openness, and willingness to change one's mind and integrate new ideas. In THOSE ways, yes, they are idiots, bozos, and the like.

Socially and emotionally unaware, out of touch, robotic, stilted in speech, poor writing and communication skills...those things to me also spell out a certain kind of "stupid," and that definitely applies to Mormon leaders.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2015 08:14AM by woodsmoke.

Bobo just doesn't get it and is hoist by his own petard.

Now, Bobo, Henry Eyring's father was a big deal in the church as well as being physicist. Did he find Kolob? Why not?

Where is the long list of criminals who can also boast of stellar degrees in every discipline from prestigious institutions?

You see Bobo, it’s not about intelligence and it’s not about being smart.

It’s about courage.

It’s about doing what you know to be right despite what your ego and your personal greed and level of comfort is begging you to do.

It’s about taking it on the chin and knowing that your world will be damned uncomfortable and your person may be hated by those you love while standing for something more.

What it’s not about is intelligence.

This entire thread explains well the direction of the leadership. Almost like a resume, it begins with educational qualifications, lists accomplishments and has letters of recommendation.

That is, if the job for which they were applying were leadership at Enron.

They invent meaningless terms, obfuscate finances and bully all challengers. Where they vary is in calling their founder a prophet, and requiring investor-employees to swear allegiance to his corporate policies. They even require a non-disclosure of sorts, which penalties include losing one's family and eternal damnation.

It will go down as one of the "smartest" bamboozles of all time.

Nice thread.

I especially like how axeldc points out how the 15 are like the moneychangers Jesus chucks out of the Temple.

Business and Law: these are the guys assuming power over the souls of children, women and men. Nothing screams "terrestrial" level arrogance louder than this.

Jesus.

Human

What? You mean Holland is the only one with a religious degree?

the world is full of educated @$$h0les !

#Ben Carson For LDS Apostle...Anyone Else on this?

after he does brain surgery on you.

Having empathy, tolerance, a well-rounded intellect, or emotional intelligence.

You can put in the work for an MBA or PhD and still be ignorant, greedy, and all around scum.

Do you know what they call a C student that earns a PhD? Doctor.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2015 11:07AM by Itzpapalotl.

A B- is lowest acceptable grade in grad school. If you are getting several Bs in your grad classes, they will talk to you and suggest you move onto something else. If you got the equivalent of a B on your dissertation, they would ask you to revise and resubmit.

Because to MBA has ever been stupid enough to run a business into the ground.

How can fifteen highly educated individuals collectively be so stupid?

have no college education. My brother has a GED and earns more than most of my entire extended family. My uncle worked at a gas station and died a multi-millionaire.

Intelligence doesn't necessarily mean college degree.

And what are you doing on an exmo board? As a devout mormon, you would never have found me here.

A degree is not a measure of intelligence. It is a measure of one's ability to complete an assignment, to be able to prove one's obedience to a teacher and a scholarly discipline.

A fancy degree in and of itself does not a complete package make and is not a definitive definition of intelligence. Perhaps some are bordering on being an "idiot savant" who is brilliant in one thing only--in this case, self importance.

I don't follow anyone, but if I did, the characteristics I would prize in the them would be reason, intellect, empathy, and kindness.

Having the highest degree possible in the education field is no guarantee that you won't be a bully.

The Big 15 are self important bigoted bullies. Fuck their degrees.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2015 11:56AM by blueorchid.

Sorry, but not impressive, from an emotional maturity standpoint, or an intellectual curiosity standpoint:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws4vgihE3Q0

And what the OP fails to mention is that most, if not all, of the Q15 were given the benefit of all sorts of perks and "step ups", thanks to their familial and political connections. They are where they are today because they were basically selected from birth to be placed on the fast track to success, both in business and in the church.

Of the dudes that made it into the Q15 throughout the past century, show me one that is a self-made man, and I'll show you a hundred sycophantic, coddled, incurious, sheltered, compassionless automatons.

So Holland is the closest thing they have to a theologian. Talk about the quorum of the 15 pharisees.