For any of you young enough to remember (or maybe it was a common saying to older TBMs?), the phrase that was parroted especially amongst the young brethren: modest is hottest.

Can't think of a bigger insult to the teenage male sex drive than this (then again, does it command much respect anyways? lol). Were any of you seriously convinced that a modestly dressed gal was sexier than one that wasn't? Even odder, more turned on? Or was it just something you held on to just to be better accepted by the brethren? I do understand there are indeed cases where it's better for someone to cover up, but the arrogant attitude I've seen from some is just.. Ugh!

This is probably me rambling and will shortly be shoved to the bottom of the topic board. But I'm gonna throw this out there anyway. So, your thoughts?

It doesn't make the girls who choose to wear tank tops feel real great, either. A lot of LDS youth are perfectly happy to call girls sluts or skanks just for wearing a tank top or two-piece swimsuit.

I also can't stand all the bridal stores that market themselves as modest stores. I don't find anything immodest about a dress that shows shoulders.

I'm a female.

I felt out-of-place. I live in the mid-west and there are not many mormons around here. During the humid summers I'd be wearing capris that came to just above my ankles and shirts with sleeves. While all my non-mo friends wore tank tops and short shorts.

I never saw how it was hottest. And I never thought it was modest. I always got the feeling it was more to show off how holy mormons are.

I figured that anyone who had not been to the temple could dress however they wanted. I like to see skin, it is physiological. I don't like nastiness but skin is good.

I left Mormon Inc. before you were born, and never heard of "modest is hottest". The first thing that comes to mind are the garment hiding clothes, and how hot it gets in the summer. So, yeah, it's smelly, sweaty, and weird looking.

Something else that bothers me about "modest is hottest" is when old fogies my age and older try to sound hip to the younger generation. "You're HOT!" was popularized by Paris Hilton. It just seems creepy when her line is copied and turned upside down like that. Shutter!

Honestly, it all depends on who it is. Some people just cannot get away with wearing "immodest" (and i'm using quotes because i'm talking about clothes not mormon approved, but what the world seems as normal) simply because it's just not the type of clothes best fitting for a person's body size or type. I wish people would realize this...I get embarrased for them, seeing them with their muffin top hanging over their sides and cheesy legs exposed from their too short shorts.

Sometimes covering up is more attractive than someone wearing short shorts and a halter top...which I tend to see more people who have no business wearing them, than people who would look okay.


Know your body type, shape and size, and dress accordingly. It's simple.

I graduated high school here in NJ in 2002. That phrase was popular especially around prom time. There were few if any shops that carried modest dresses so everyone just made do with shawls for pictures to show off at church. However, no one really wore the shawls the whole time at prom, except for a few hardcore kids. So much for modest is hottest, lol. My friend graduated in 2005 and her mom was way hardcore. She took the dress, which I believe had spaghetti straps, to a seamstress to have the shawl sewed onto the dress so my friend couldn't take it off, lol. Around the time my friend graduated in 2005, the stake started throwing a "mormon prom," as an alternative. Most kids still went to their high school prom anyway. I heard you have to get interviewed by the bishop to get a ticket to the prom... and friends who aren't mormon have to go through a similar process and sign a form saying they'll follow the guidelines. SMH.

I graduated high school in '01; I remember "modest is hottest" being popular, but apparently not really enough to change how people behaved in Cedar City, UT. Strapless and Spaghetti-strap dresses were really popular, as well as the dresses with the separate top and bottom. Although all the girls had matching shawls that they promptly forgot about (along with their shoes) once they got their photos taken.

There was a "modest formals" store that sold "modest" prom gowns and bridal wear. I don't know if it's still there though.

I remember the dress code at school didn't allow spaghetti straps or tube tops; a lot of girls who wanted to wear spaghetti strap tops would layer a t-shirt underneath.

What the hell? Layering a T-shirt under your prom dress??? How hideous! I feel so bad for these girls.

I graduated high school in 1975 . . .

When I went to single adult sunday school (we didn't have a single's ward in the town I was in), the teacher, who was a jerk, was talking about modesty. The fashions were modest at the time--"maxis and midis"--going to below the knee and longer. I made the comment that with the fashions in those days, it wasn't very hard to dress modestly. He made the comment that oftentimes those things covered up are more tempting. I was like, "so, we can't win?" It is all OUR FAULT that men are tempted by us just by being.

typical.

I'm working on a theory that our modern ideas of "modesty" are rooted in misogyny, primarily directed at controlling the wimminfolk.

When you walk away from the patriarchy and refuse to allow patriarchal domination in your life, it's a lot more fun to enjoy your own body, dress in flattering clothes, and not worry too much about what other people think. The idea that a short skirt or tank top is "slutty" comes entirely from uptight religious men who hate women and seek to control them, in my opinion. It stems from some sort of self-loathing; they then project that loathing on to the opposite sex and start talking smack about any woman who doesn't conform.

What say ye? Does anyone think I'm on to something or completely out to lunch?

I definitely think you're onto something, dogzilla!

This "modesty" is false and has one goal: to control women (and therefore also control the men who want to remain "worthy" of the women). The Morg hierarchy hate women, hate themselves for wanting women, and try to control their own urges by controlling women.

I creepily (if that's a word) reminds me of the rationale so many rapists have expressed... Look at how she's dressed. She wants it, the slut.

This has been used on wee little girls (don't ask me how I know this) and old ladies in baggy housedresses. It's a can't-win-fer-losin situation for sure.

And interestingly, if you look at various cultures and societies around the world, the ones with the most strict/repressive/prudish dress codes are the same ones with the highest levels of violence against women.

Indoctrinate the youth to the point they seriously worry about such details as what they wear, how many piercings they have, and what "The Brethren" expect. That's a good start to hooking them for life.

Ahhh, the thrill of having millions of people obey you or at least feel really guilty if they don't. Evil creeps.

Some women are sexy in just about everything.

Rubicon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some women are sexy in just about everything.


Especially if they have large breasticles, extensive gams, and high cheekbones.

Just sayin'... ;)

Ron

Very true...sometimes things just come easy to us. :P

...like me.

No, I'm not indulging in fishing, or false modesty. I'm a plain, homely woman, not improving with age. But even plain women get sexually harassed, abused, or even raped.

The difference with an ugly woman is that as a rule she gets a harder time from law enforcement. No one wants to prosecute or pursue her case because they figure the jury'll think, Ew! Who'd rape HER?

My all time favorite example of Mormon Orwellian doublethink!

I long ago (way before I turned from Agnostic to Christian) decided that "God" created clothing not for modesty, but for aesthetics. Many people look A LOT better covered as opposed to exposed.

I like looking at beautiful women in nothing or nearly nothing. Now if I could claim that I enjoy looking at men in the same way, I could go with the "but I'm looking from a strictly aesthetic standpoint" card.

How does it explain that Utah(especially Utah County) has the highest porn dowloads per capita in the U.S.? Must be a TON of modest porn site out there!

[standard nevermo disclaimer here]

I've never heard the saying "modest is hottest," but I do know as a married woman that my husband is more interested if I'm covering a little something up rather than just going completely nude. This isn't because I'm ugly or anything, but it's more than by wearing at least a little clothing, I'm leaving something to the sexual imagination, that I'm presenting something to be discovered or uncovered rather than letting it all hang out. Now of course, I'm not talking about all the time or anything, and certainly the clothing will be removed when the time comes, but in terms of initial sexual interest, wearing a little something is better than total nudity because it's "flirty."

And some men (and women attracted to women) do find some level of "modest dress" more sexually attractive (though probably not to the degree of wearing a t-shirt underneath a spaghetti strap tank top...I've never heard of such...yuck!). For instance, a certain amount of cleavage is sexy, but if a shirt is too low-cut, the tease is gone and it's just kind of icky. Or a short skirt that just barely gives a peek at something is hotter than a thong. Or a guy in tight underwear is sexier than a guy without underwear, at least initially. It has to do with mystery and allure. I know what I've described probably doesn't fall into the Mormon category of "modest," which from what I can tell based on modest Mormon websites means "fugly." I don't know how to explain this, and I don't think it applies to every person's sexual taste...but does anybody know what I'm talking about?

My TBM mother showed a bit of cleavage once in a while. My prom dress was sleeveless.

Until you got garments, garment rules didn't apply. Men wore their garment tops outside doing yard work in summer without shirts.

Was my family weird, or is this modesty thing part of the big move to the right that came in the 80s with the whole conservative christian movement that the leaders embraced? Is it more ETBenson legacy?

I remember being in YW and going on a trip for something or other. Anyway, one of the girls had the idea of getting matching t-shirts to wear on the trip. So the shirts were ordered (run of the mill babydoll cut t-shirts) and we were given these shirts the day of the trip.

I have always been big in the bust area. I was well into a D cup by my sixteenth birthday, and since my waist is on the small side it's even more obvious. They ordered me a large t-shirt. It was still a little tight but oh well.

When the YW president saw me in the shirt she had a cow, chastised me for being immodest, and then frantically shoved her huge hoodie on me to cover me up. I was bawling. They ORDERED THE SHIRT SIZE FOR ME, I WAS WEARING THE SAME THING AS ALL THE OTHER GIRLS, YET SOMEHOW IT WAS MY FAULT THAT MY BOOBS WERE LARGER.

This is only one of the many times I was harassed for how my body looked. I had awful self-esteem issues all throughout my youth. Which looking back now I realize that I was a lot more attractive than most of the adult or young women in my ward, and that was probably the root of the issue. Mormon women are very insecure, and they will attack other women for their appearance if they feel threatened by their looks.

But at the time, I thought I must be hideous or unrighteous because of all the fuss.

Modest = Hottest

If so, then Hottest = Modest

Therefore, whatever makes a woman look hot is modest.

the fashion tastes of LDS teens. The LDS leaders seem to want all girls, regardless of age, to dress as if they were wearing garments.

I recall (with much fondness) when I went off to college during the late 60's right in the middle of the mini-skirt revolution. Even the LDS girls wore short skirts. I know, because I dated some. At that time, it was not a mortal sin for a single LDS young woman to wear shorts, a bikini, a mini-skirt, or a revealing top. Only when she had gone through the temple and taken out her endowments was a stricter dress code expected, but not always followed.

This all happened outside of Utah, BTW. What I find objectionable, however, is the LDS mindset that LDS men and boys have no responsibility for controlling their thoughts or actions. Its always the female's fault because she was "wearing something revealing". Whatever happened to the old saying that God would never tempt us beyond our ability to resist? Oh, but a sexy woman can do that with a glimpse of cleavage? LDS men generally look for excuses to justify their own bad behavior, thus the blame-shifting to women's fashions.

I'm surprised to see that my very self-righteous TBM sister's daughters are wearing bikinis and tank tops and sleevless dresses on all their FB pictures.

So why does she get on my case (or look down her nose at me)... but think it's ok for her daughters?

Well, I think it's because I went to the "temple" and they haven't been yet. But that's a cop out. I think it's going to be a huge shock to her daughter's system when they finally do the Temple and then have to cut out 1/2 of their wardrobe!

sorry, but i tend to agree. if a girl shows too much skin trying to look sexy, it's just skanky to me. Modest does not mean wearing baggy clothes and covering everything, but just nice looking, you know?