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Posted by: Exmo Mom ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 01:14AM

So, when TBM family members (immediate meaning siblings or parents) have a Mormon wedding, they already know the exno can't attend. Sometimes they issue a wedding announcement/invitation, and add a note saying "WE'd love you to come to the reception" (consolation prize).

I've read here that many expect their Exmo family to still come and wait outside the temple to pose in pictures - but they are not allowed inside God's holy house, or so they claim it is.

I've wondered about a civil way to respond. In my family's case, there is a wedding coming up, and they are issuing an email to all family (including the exmos) saying they want to arrange for a reunion the same week, with a copy of the reception invitation. The assumption is that the exmo family members would still want to participate, despite not being "worthy" to attend the wedding itself.

Now don't get me wrong, last thing I want to do is set foot inside a Mormon temple. But it feels very odd to even consider going to the reception.

So just wondering - have others here ever considered making a statement that somehow gets through to them that it's impolite to invite family to the reception but not the wedding (even though of course it isn't their decision, the Mormon hierarchy has deemed this to be the case). Yes I know, some here probbly still go to the Recepitions and still send a gift etc. That's not what I'm referring to, as those are always options by civilized folks.

I'm trying to think of a simple, straight to the point statement that would allow them to see the ludicrousness of their "family friendly... families are forever" church but without being sarcastic or nasty. It's truthfully insulting of Mormons. Can you imagine if the tables were turned, and other faiths said: "You are not allowed to come to our wedding, but we'd sure love to see ya at the Reception!" If the shoe were on the other foot, can you picture them sending gifts to newly married family members to whose wedding they were not allowed to attend?

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Posted by: angela ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 01:18AM

My thoughts on this have always been, it's the bride and groom's special day. It's not a day to make a statement about Mormonism.

Go if you want to be supportive of the couple. It's about THEM, it's not about you.

If you don't want or can't be supportive for them, don't go.
Don't see it as a teaching or preaching or making a statement opportunity about Mormons or the temple.

It's the celebration of two people making a commitment of love to each other



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2015 01:22AM by angela.

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Posted by: Exmo Mom ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 01:35AM

Angela - for sure, a wedding is about the couple - but if the couple in question and the rest of the TBM family doesn't accept you (the guest) for who you are, it's a very uncomfortable and negative place to be,as the vibe is you (the exmo) are "less than" etc.

I suppose some TBMs may feel obligated to send their reception invitations to exmo family, possibly even hoping the exmos don't come, as they may also feel uncomfortable.

It would be so nice if it were possible to just spend time with the TBM couple in a one on one, different location. But even that after they go t hrough the temple is not likely to happen, as they will be starkly reminded that it is not righteous to associate with apostates.

I think the best statement is not going and sending a card or gift, saying "congrats, wishing you the best"

As for the reunion, it would make sense if the TBMs and exmos get along. If they do not, different story.

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Posted by: lovechild ( )
Date: November 02, 2015 12:18AM

angela Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> It's the celebration of two people making a
> commitment of love to each other

Maybe, and maybe not. In my experience, a temple wedding is not John marrying Jennie and Jennie marrying John. It is more like John and Jennie marrying the church.

There have been uncounted threads posted one this board as testimony to the fact that when a real test comes, many of the temple-marrieds will break the bond with the spouse rather than break the bond with the church.

So, where is the REAL commitment?

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Posted by: verilyverily ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 01:27AM

"even though of course it isn't their decision" - Are you for real? Of course it is their decision! They joined an evil CULT. That was their decision. They knew their family can't come to the wedding and they remained in the slimy CULT.

My SIL is so devastated because her ONLY child (daughter) married a CULTer and nobody in my hubby's family could attend including the bride's parents. The bride made the decision to join this freak show and keep her parents out. Don't even think it is NOT their decision. They joined an evil cult and stayed in it like complete MORONS, IQless wonders.

angela said "Go if you want to be supportive of the couple. It's about THEM, it's not about you." - I don't want to support a couple who is stupid enough to join a SATANIC CULT so I'll be happy to make my statement by skipping it. I want to avoid EVIL at all costs. Thanks anyway.

"church but without being sarcastic or nasty." - I don't even know what this means, but the CULT needs SARCASTIC AND NASTY to get the message. People have been walking on eggshells. Be sarcastic and nasty. maybe that will get through to them. Nothing else has.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2015 01:33AM by verilyverily.

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Posted by: Exmom Mom ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 01:37AM

I have to say I thik it's a bit funny how so many Mormons consider it a status symbol to get married in Salt Lake temple (or Hawaii), instead of all the other local ones.

Aren't they proud of having temples in their local states and neighborhoods???

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Posted by: southern idaho inactive ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 01:56AM

You'd think that they would proud of their local temple. Where I live, I often see morg wedding announcements for the Salt Lake temple. I sometimes wonder what's bad or wrong getting married in the Twin Falls temple!??? It'll be cheaper on gas than a 3 hour drive to SLC and back.....I live about 45 minutes from Twin.

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Posted by: adoylelb ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 02:52AM

I think the reason the Salt Lake temple is a favorite wedding venue among Mormons is that Temple Square is the Mormon Vatican. It's the cultural and spiritual center for Mormons, as it's the temple that's seen most often because it's shown on media more often than the Utah state capitol building.

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Posted by: scmd ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 03:00AM

Exmom Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have to say I thik it's a bit funny how so many
> Mormons consider it a status symbol to get married
> in Salt Lake temple (or Hawaii), instead of all
> the other local ones.
>
> Aren't they proud of having temples in their local
> states and neighborhoods???


i asked one of my sisters why she was getting married in Logan, which was a temple she had always liked, rather than Provo, which was much closer to her home. Her response was that the temple close to your home is for temple work by proxy, but that her marriage was something she hoped was a one-time thing, and she intended to choose a temple that wasn't too terribly inconvenient that was a favorite of both her and her husband. Perhaps that's the mindset of others who choose the SLC or Hawaii as sort of destination temples.

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Posted by: greenAngel ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 01:05PM

my sibling married his wife in the Provo Temple. They specifically chose that temple cause "we don't want to be part of the assembly line in Salt Lake."
The Provo temple workers loved it, they came from all over the temple to see the happy couple and fawned all over them "we haven't done a wedding in forever, a wedding!!"

It's not the prettiest temple but it was a great choice for a wedding i think.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 04:14PM

The Logan temple is really beautiful, architecturally. I read that one of the Presidents remarked that he was disappointed when, back in the 60s or so, they renovated the interior. He said some of the finest Pioneer carpentry was put inside it.

Not to endorse LDS "sealings," of course.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 05:06PM

Your wedding photos will be on family room shelves for a long time, so you want them to really 'pop' out and the Salt Lake temple is iconic in that regard. Plus they look good on FB.

Image! Nestled in the bosom of virtually every TBM is the hope that they're fooling everyone.

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Posted by: the1v ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 01:39AM

For siblings suck it up and attend the wedding. Anybody else... Ehh... Play it by ear.

Just think how bad the party is going to be. No alcohol, likely some type of crappy Mormon casserole, no dirty dancing, everyone dressed like its the 50's except that one girl that everyone is scandalized by, and traditionslly held in the local ward building. Bring a flask...

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Posted by: Exmo Mom ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 01:47AM

I was not asking whether to attend or not, as that's a very personal decision. In some cases it's not financially feasible as these days families live quite far apart. For me, it's a question of a combination of factors. I'm just making a few points.

Recent convo:

Exmo: "I"m flying to my y's reception."

Non member friend (NMF): "Not going to the wedding?"

Exmo: "No, it's mormon wedding. Not allowed in. Only allowed to the reception."

NMF: "I thought you were Mormon, or at least raised Mormon."

Exmo: "I was - but because I left the church, I'm no longer welcome to the weddings."

NMF: "Whaaaaaaaat?? That's harsh."

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Posted by: Ex-Sis ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 02:55AM

Ironic that many of them are offended when you choose not to fly in to sit in a temple parking lot in order to be in a phony family photo.

It didn't occur to a friend of mine that maid of honor (me) would be sitting in the parking lot for hours outside the West Jordan temple, as would her father, until right before the ceremony. I was maid of honor, or bride's maid at 6 weddings I never witnessed.

The general public needs to see this on YouTube in a category called Mormon weddings-all about family. Hour after hour... Interviewing the parents of the bride, "You are paying for the wedding/gowns/receptions, gifts, dinners hotels... for a wedding you are not allowed to attend?" It would be like watching Scientology documentaries...

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Posted by: caedmon ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 06:27AM

Ex-Sis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ironic that many of them are offended when you
> choose not to fly in to sit in a temple parking
> lot in order to be in a phony family photo.
>
> It didn't occur to a friend of mine that maid of
> honor (me) would be sitting in the parking lot for
> hours outside the West Jordan temple, as would her
> father, until right before the ceremony. I was
> maid of honor, or bride's maid at 6 weddings I
> never witnessed.
>
> The general public needs to see this on YouTube in
> a category called Mormon weddings-all about
> family. Hour after hour... Interviewing the
> parents of the bride, "You are paying for the
> wedding/gowns/receptions, gifts, dinners hotels...
> for a wedding you are not allowed to attend?" It
> would be like watching Scientology
> documentaries...


Why do Mormons even bother with maid of honor, best man, etc.? They're so proud (arrogant) of their "peculiar" status, why have any of the trappings of the traditional non-Mormon wedding?

My never Mormon daughter just married the love of her life in a lovely outdoor ceremony followed by a great party. One of her good friends commented to me that it was so much more fun than her own wedding (typical Mormon reception). I feel sorry for Mormon couples forced to have such a boring, impersonal wedding day by the Mormon culture and expectations.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2015 06:28AM by caedmon.

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Posted by: zimmerman ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 08:55AM

I take my lead from the fine Christians leading TSCC. Family relationships are merely a vehicle for collecting money and mean nothing other then $$$$. Since I am nothing but a walking ATM, if I am not invited to the wedding, I am not showing up for any of it and not contributing a dime. If those inside of the mental prison ever wake up and apologize for the insult of excluding those that do not succumb to the extortion, then we can talk.

Mormonism is nothing more than a extortion racket and I refuse to play.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 09:11AM

When I first came to this board as a nevermo, I was aghast that Mormons would not invite people to their temple weddings, but instead to the photo op and reception. In the real world, that wouldn't fly. It would be considered unbelievably rude. The wedding is the main show! It would be like telling a few guests that they could come just for dessert after your other guests have enjoyed a deluxe dinner party.

I now realize that family relationships between TBMs and exmos are a complicated thing. I advocate thinking it through and doing whatever works for the particular exmo(s.) Some people will want to support their children, family, or friends by waiting outside the temple. Some will just go to the reception. And some will just send a gift or card with their best wishes. There is no one "best" solution to this horrible problem.

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Posted by: blueorchid ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 10:29AM

Once on tour of one of those palaces in England we were treated to a story of how one of the kings would invite people to watch him eat on holidays. This was supposed to be a treat. I can't even imagine.

I only went once. It feels like you have a huge scarlet letter on your shirt/blouse. I was caught off guard. Didn't realize they were going to ask me to be in the photos.

I never did it again. I chose not to respond period to wedding invitations. My silence can cut like a knife and I never felt the need to say more. I never feel a need to respond to an insult. In person they get a glare. Otherwise, just nothing.

If you want to make a point, say nothing and then when asked, just say, "I thought you were kidding with the third wheel invite."

I always think of these lyrics from Dolly's song, Star of the Show. "I'm no back up singer, and I won't be your band." It's a song about a romantic relationship, but I find it applies across the board to all.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 10:47AM

recently, I wish the marriage had happened. My daughter was supposed to get married in the temple 10/10. She bailed and not for good reasons. She left a lot of devastated people and ran off to vacation in Florida and left the rest of us holding the bag.

Right now she is home, but leaving again tomorrow and I'm just being polite as I think she is in crisis. He is a good guy and she knows it. She knows she should have married him and I know she does. So I could care less anymore about not being able to attend the wedding.

I had come to terms with it. I would have liked to make a statement, too, but MOST of my family would have been outside (I planned on being at the cemetery a mile away at my parents' grave.)

I'm more angry at this point about the fact that the church takes its time giving permission for someone to be remarried in the temple. Her fiance had been married before and his ex had already remarried, but his permission didn't come through until the day before the wedding (which is typical) and my daughter flipped out because she was afraid she couldn't have a temple marriage. The aftermath has been living hell.

So I don't care anymore if they don't let we heathens at the wedding. The process of getting there is what I'm angry about.

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Posted by: NeverMoJohn ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 12:08PM

As a nevermo, I would never go to a wedding that I was not allowed to attend. If I am not good enough for the wedding, I am not going to the reception.

This doesn't really come up in the normal world. But in the Mormon world, this is a recurring theme. Rather than waiting for the day that you get the insulting invite, one could anticipate the problem and make it clear to relatives how insulting it is, and that you would not subject yourself to such treatment.

Then, when the issue comes up, you could ignore it, or respond, "Thank you for the invite, but I don't attend wedding receptions when I am not allowed to attend the wedding itself."

In the case of children, you can also make it clear that you are not paying for a wedding that you are not allowed to attend. This way everyone knows what to expect.

Also, all these people could have a regular wedding for all their friends and then do the creepy temple thing a year later. Who knows, in the meantime, they might decide to get out on their own.

I think that there is a lot less drama when people know what to expect.

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Posted by: rhgc ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 02:17PM

One should attend and make sure one should talk about coffee at the reception. You can easily bring a one-cup instant coffee pack and make your own with hot water from the kitchen at the reception and make sure people know it.

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Posted by: Heartless ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 02:51PM

Thers IS a choice.

My brother and his wife chose to have a normal wedding and be sealed a year later.

His wife was the only daughter and wanted her whole family there.

What if they die before a year? People screamed. His answer "Temple work is work done for the dead by the half dead"

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Posted by: caedmon ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 08:19PM

Excellent!

Here's another response:

Waiting the year allows the couple to grow together and develop a deeper appreciation & respect for the covenants they are making. They can concentrate on the meaning of the ritual without the exhaustion of wedding planning and distraction of anticipating sex for the first time.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 02:53PM

After I left, one thing I decided to do was to treat family like family -- and not copy mormon "shunning" over religious differences.

I don't put up with them trying to force religion onto me or into every conversation, but I also don't "shun" them for doing so -- I just let them know that they either talk about that stuff later when I'm not around, or they can hear my actual opinions and facts about the issue. Generally, they go onto other than church subjects.

I went to the reception for my niece's temple wedding, because she's family and I adore her despite her being TBM. I didn't go hang out at the temple, and told her I wouldn't and that she knows why, but at the reception I acted like any uncle at any reception would. She was genuinely glad I was there. So was I.

Mormons make an issue of religious differences and let it affect family. I don't -- I'm not mormon. Family is family. I treat them as such.

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Posted by: NeverMoJohn ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 04:07PM

Perhaps we have different definitions of shunning, but I don't see how not attending the wedding reception of a wedding that you have been excluded from attending equals shunning.

I see this as telling people that they aren't good enough for the wedding, but we'll be happy to have you bring wedding gifts to the reception. I doubt that I would be alone in this assessment.

As for shunning, not attending the wedding does not equal shunning. Cutting people out of your life equals shunning.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 07:19PM

NeverMoJohn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Perhaps we have different definitions of shunning,
> but I don't see how not attending the wedding
> reception of a wedding that you have been excluded
> from attending equals shunning.

It's "punishing" family by not attending a family event because you don't like something about their religious beliefs.
Fits "shunning" in my book :)

> I see this as telling people that they aren't good
> enough for the wedding, but we'll be happy to have
> you bring wedding gifts to the reception. I doubt
> that I would be alone in this assessment.

Their church has its rules -- I refuse to play by them or take part in it. So they can exclude me from their magical temple for that reason. That's fine, I don't want to go in anyway. My niece, for example, didn't tell me I wasn't good enough for the wedding -- her church did. She told me she would love to have me at her reception.

And I think the "we'll be happy to have you bring wedding gifts" thing is more than a bit cynical. That may be the case with some mormons, it wasn't the case with my niece. She would have been happy to see me if I brought nothing.

> As for shunning, not attending the wedding does
> not equal shunning. Cutting people out of your
> life equals shunning.

The church with its silly rules didn't cut me out -- I cut the church out of MY life. For me to then "punish" family by refusing to attend family events over that -- sure seems like shunning to me, as I said above. I'm not going to play that game. You, of course, can if you want to.

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Posted by: Anti gman ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 04:57PM

and it will exclude me and my wife but my ex will attend with her husband Of course I am expected to pay for some of the wedding costs and have already

Difficult to not be able to see the actual wedding but then I have been excluded in many important events and that is the cult way. I love my oldest but blood is thicker than the stale sacrament water I no longer imbibe.

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Posted by: caedmon ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 08:31PM

Anti gman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and it will exclude me and my wife but my ex will
> attend with her husband Of course I am expected to
> pay for some of the wedding costs and have already
>
>
> Difficult to not be able to see the actual wedding
> but then I have been excluded in many important
> events and that is the cult way. I love my oldest
> but blood is thicker than the stale sacrament
> water I no longer imbibe.


I was in your position ten years ago. We didn't wait outside the temple but we gave them a great reception. Why? Because she is my child and I wanted her to have wonderful memories of the day.

So, we put smiles on our faces and were as gracious as we could find it in our hearts to be. I know we have been held up as examples of non-Mormon family who didn't mind the exclusion - nothing could be further from the truth. I was crushed but I held my head high and the rest of the family followed my lead.

We have been there for them anytime they needed us, we have not allowed religion to divide us. It has paid off for us. They come to our home for the holidays, I am who she wanted when their children were born, we go on vacation together, etc. While they barely see the Mormon grandma, who can't remember the names of their kids and can't be bothered to send birthday cards.....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2015 08:34PM by caedmon.

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Posted by: bordergirl ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 05:57PM

What I cannot understand is why the couple would not choose to be married civilly with EVERYONE present and waiting the year to be sealed.

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Posted by: conflicted ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 11:03PM

I think the "waiting a year" is considered a punishment for not having it done the "right Way" in the temple from the start. Many would assume that there is a worthiness problem and for that reason they are not getting married in the temple from the start. It's quite judgemental and a way to pressure them. I have attended weddings overseas where the law doesn't give the temple the authority for a civil marriage. So Mormons always have an outside wedding first, then get sealed after.

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Posted by: Leaving ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 06:27PM

Take the high road. The TBMs certainly aren't.

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Posted by: NormaRae ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 06:33PM

You know, anymore, even the wedding couple doesn't want to be there. The wedding is just a little procedure they have to go through in order to have the sex approved. The bride doesn't usually even wear her wedding dress for the wedding anymore.

I went to one last summer and didn't feel like I missed a thing. There were way more people outside than inside. Visiting while waiting for the festivities to begin (the bride and groom to emerge from the temple) was really fun. There was a family luncheon that was more of an intimate ritual than the wedding is. The best man and maid of honor and both fathers spoke. And not one of them even mentioned the wedding. I didn't hear a word about it--who was or wasn't there or ANYTHING. When mormon kids talk about their wedding, they are talking about the reception. They could care less about the temple part of it except for the pictures on the OUTSIDE.

Go and enjoy their day with them if they are people you care about. It makes more of a statement that you could care less about having been or not been included in the Masonic stuff.

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Posted by: jdawg333 ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 08:35PM

Only a handful of people can fit into the sealing room anyway, so most people are only invited to the reception anyway. I say just go and support the couple.

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Posted by: carrietchr1 ( )
Date: November 01, 2015 11:31PM

My best friend's daughter (like a neice to me) is getting married in December. I am flying out to the wedding. I've already told them that the day of the wedding I'll be their "Girl Friday" and will get things ready for the reception...run errands, etc. so I won't go to the temple.

So far they haven't asked questions and I haven't explained why (I did stand outside the temple when my friend was married, but I was young and naive then!) I've been working on my comment for IF someone asks me why I'm not going to the temple portion...I plan to say something like:

"The adults waiting outside are considered unworthy and have to watch all the kids. I'm not unworthy."

I'm a nevermo that went to church with my friend since 1st grade. I'm an enigma to them...a good, kind person who has done well in life, has a great family, knows a lot about the church and could pass for a member...but has never joined...and yet, I still have all those blessings!

We don't talk about the church or why I have never joined...we'll see what happens with this visit!

I'm putting my love of my neice above my hatred of the church to fly out for the wedding and offer my support...but I will draw the line at standing outside the temple.

Carrie

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