I received the following yesterday, from someone who attended an interfaith meeting in New York, hosted by the Mormons:

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I had recently attended a Religious Communicators Conference at Mormon Visitors Center in New York City. Ryan John Koch, the center's director made a disparaging and gratuitous remark about anticipating the death of the City's Catholic Cardinal, Timothy Dolan. When he was admonished for his unchristian comment, he blithely responded, "I simply won't let it go."

This behavior is inappropriate in any context but worst still for the director of an organization which supposedly promotes communication and cooperation between religions. Koch abused his position as leader of a supposedly ecumenical and interfaith group to push his bigotry and expect to be lauded for it.

Koch, having introduced himself as the director of the center, is listed on his business card as “Director of the New York Office of the Public and International Affairs.”

I think it important to note that Mr Koch, the man who insulted the Cardinal, claims to work closely with several Catholic charities. When he was admonished as to his callous and unnecessary remark, he refused to apologize saying "I simply won't let it go." It’s inconceivable that a man who is employed as the spokesperson for this organization and the chief liaison between the Catholic Church and his group to say such a vicious thing. I’ve made more than a lifetime’s worth of sins and mistakes but I’ve never publically hoped for, joked about or contemplated someone’s death especially as inoffensive and as much beloved person as Cardinal Dolan. I’m torn between being flummoxed and offended at Koch’s remarks. There’s no rational reason for such an insane, callous and vicious a remark let alone from a man like Koch who is put in his position to specifically NOT offend people of other religions.

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And Mormons wonder why non-Mormons don't like them...

The surprising thing is not that a Mormon said something stupid and offensive, it's that the other person is surprised at it.

Do we know what the actual remark was?

See my full post below for what was said.

RPackham Wrote:
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> There’s no
> rational reason for such an insane, callous and
> vicious...

That's mormonism. Insane, callous, vicious -- and with no rational reasons for anything.

Normal people who represent an organization are quick to retract and profusely apologize for saying something hurtful or insulting.

Mormons? Nope. They are right and are always right and the world should know that and understand, no matter what.

Hey, Oaks said that mormons won't apologize. Was he talking for god or speaking as a man? It's all so confusing.

DING DING DING - BEST ANSWER

Koch is simply following his priesthood authority. Elder Oaks, soon to be President Oaks, stated quite publicly that Mormon LEADERS don't apologize for mistakes. The word apologize does not appear in the Book of Mormon.

Dickhead.

I CANNOT WAIT for Oaks to become the prophet of the Mormonism. There will be no greater modern day comparison to Joseph Caiaphas of the New Testament than Dallin Oaks.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Just because an apology is not acknowledged/accepted does not mean one was not given. See my full post below.

It's pretty typical of the asinine arrogance on display by some self-important egotists masquerading as church leaders in the cult.

No wonder it gets more negative marks to its name. It earns them.

Suggest that the outraged letter writer go to the NY Times with it. We all know how the cult hates bad press, and we can expect a very quick retraction.

Or, better, the NY Post. ("MORMONS TO DOLAN: DROP DEAD!") A front page worth saving.

Dolan, unless elected pontiff in the future, will be the cardinal archbishop of NYC long after Koch is replaced as director. He is only 65. And even if his required resignation is accepted at the age of 75, he still will have plenty of years of emeritus status



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2015 02:07AM by angela.

I tend to be very skeptical of reports of what someone did that
don't actually tell what they did but only supply a
charactarization. Exactly what did he say that were
"disparaging and gratuitous remark about anticipating the death
of the City's Catholic Cardinal, Timothy Dolan?"

Thank you for your rational response.

Shouldn't this become an op-ed to the SL Tribune?

Is the Koch in question any relation to Charles or David?

I was wondering the same thing. The guy in question is in the right place and in a leadership type position, so it wouldn't surprise me.

No. He's one of 6-7 kids from convert parents. Knew the young family a long time ago and they were all very nice, grounded non-Utah Mormons. The entire family grew up out in the mission field surrounded by very few Mormons sometimes and interacted well with others of different faiths.

No.

"Inoffensive and Beloved"?! I think Cardinal Dolan is horrible. I know where Koch is coming from.

RPackham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> And Mormons wonder why non-Mormons don't like
> them...


^Yup.

"Koch" is my brother (we are indeed a family of 6 kids with convert parents, four of us kids are now apostates). Although I am one of the evil apostates (a name I give myself) I can tell you that he holds people of all faiths, including myself in the highest regard.

The writer of this complaint took an off-handed figure of speech, which to a native English speaker would never have been taken as an insult, and blew it up into this huge incident. He never approached Koch during the meeting or after. Instead,he went onto lds.org and spammed every email address he could find from the site. The first Koch heard about this person being offended was when someone called and said what is this email about?

As soon as he knew, he issued both verbal and written apologies, which have not been accepted or acknowledged except to say "you are only apologizing because your boss is making you, you don't mean it". Which, by the way, is also not true. His boss did not require him to apologize. He apologized because he was truly sorry this person was offended particularly because he did not mean to offend.

Just to be clear, regardless of what he said in the complaint, the writer of the complaint never approached Koch personally to say the remarks offended him. He instead chose to spam all of Mormondom with an inaccurate account of the meeting.

The discussion was concerning a speaking engagement for which the Catholic Cardinal was unsure he could commit. Koch asked the Cardinal's contact how long they were going to wait until they would "pull the plug" on the cardinal, simply meaning...when are we going to start looking for an alternate speaker? Koch has acknowledged that being in PR. his choice of words is very important, and that he should not have phrased the question as he did. He did, however, need to know when to start looking for an alternate speaker for the conference.


I am the first person to hate on Mormons that deserve it. But if you read the complaint as listed, it is indeed a gross generalization with absolutely no facts to back it up. The offended person attended the meeting with a friend. I would ask you all to contact that friend to see what his account of the meeting is.


This will never make a credible media outlet because a credible media outlet will ask for corroborating evidence, which they will not find.

Thanks for the more complete story. It looks like I, along with others, jumped the gun. (I would amend my previous post on this thread, but apparently it's too old.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2015 12:50PM by Book of Mordor.

Hi Jen! I know u and vice versa... U were at college and I was a new female convert who adored ur family especially ur oldest brother... I am not sure how to get in contact...I haven't officially resigned but I don't care enough to do it...

I am happy to hear you are out!

Facebook?

Are people trying to find ways to be offended because they like the attention that their little snit brings them, do they like stirring controversy, or do they fancy themselves as PC Police ever on the lookout to protect the population from perceived mean, hurtful things?

It is beginning to feel like it's a competition to find the most obscure thing to be offended by...

This is a good example.

Jennifer.

How bout those angry exmo's huh?

Thank you for that update. You could have stayed silent and I appreciate the fact that you did not.

As ex's we can may see underhanded context at times where it does not exist.

Just like science. I now have updated information and have updated my opionion based on the new info.

As a matter of note I'm still an angry exmo.

Oh, I'm a VERY angry ex-mo. Don't get me wrong. But even when my brother is not personally involved, I try to apply my newly found rational thinking skills to mormon stuff. Most of the time, I'm still angry at the end of my analysis.

I would stand up for any mormon I feel is being represented unfairly, just like I would any PERSON.

But I am the older sister bear in this situation as well.....

This really needs to be explained and straightened out, because if he really said that, he truly is a sick son of a bitch and I would lose lots of respect for TSCC leaders if they don't come out and discipline him.

Tim Dolan is a very colorful character, lots of people miss him when he got called to New York City. He even did this promo for the local archdioscese where he closes by winking and saying "See you at Mass!". I'm not Catholic and even I thought that was nice and funny. An ad those who talk about "coming closer to Christ" (you know who) simply don't get.

Is there a single Morg leader, past or present, that is as warm and charismatic?

Read through the comments before you comment. He didn't really say that. There is nothing to discipline. Please see the full account under my name above.

I said, if he truly said that.
But if he said verbatim, "pull the plug", I've never heard that as an analogy except to those who are terminally ill, and as far as we know the hypercharismatic Dolan is as fit as a bull moose. Because of his personality he's going up the ladder and as such, he isn't as available as he used to be. Your brother needs to realize that. I spoke with a severely TBM official about an issue recently and what he told me concerned me a little, nothing rude, but as told in stories on this board, Mormons have a tendency to say inappropriate things from time to time.

Frankly it sounds like to me you believe blood is thicker than water and you're defending him vehemently here. I have relatives known for their rudeness and have stood up to them for those things. Thank you for explaining the whole story and yes, even sometimes "anti-Mormons" can slander and do wrong things to others. Still, we need to hear the whole story.

Here is a link that shows this idiom is more than about death

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/pull+the+plug

I am inclined to agree with Jennifer who knows her brother and his heart in spite of her non TBM beliefs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2015 01:19PM by wowbagger.

I've used the analogy of "pull the plug" to mean something other than referring to someone who is terminally ill.

Jennifer's explanation is very plausible and I can believe it. Easily.

This sounds like much ado about nothing.

I am also going to sit back and watch. This may be a genuine post but runs opposite emotionally.