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Posted by: Lori C ( )
Date: October 14, 2015 01:07AM

I have been thinking about this all day. After I read...


http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865638713/Nephi-becomes-a-man.html

...I was reminded of all the times I have been threatened by LDS family. That is why I'm in NZ. After seeing them condone beheading and murder in Oct 2015, I'm really tired of this, the threats and I'm now of the mind that the church demands so much obedience to the "Prophet"...aka...the link to "god", that I do want to stand up and make complaint to someone as I think this is really, really dangerous.

Shame on the church and shame on the DN and shame on the man who wrote this article making men out of boys by killing. I would have though this was ISIS propaganda.

I think it's time to speak up because I'm tired of being threatened and as they said over and over in Conf...we apostates are dark and evil and who's to say some Bishop somewhere wouldn't tell the boys to kill one of us off. I'm just tired of it.

Should I call the Embassy? Where should I go first?

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: October 14, 2015 01:26AM

The condoning of murder, after the fact and not having been a party to the act is not illegal.

Most of us had that condoning feeling once or twice in our lives. For me two stand out: Lee Harvey Oswald and Osama Bin Laden.

From the mormon perspective, Laban's murder was righteous, because "... better one man die than a people perish...", to quote made up scripture.

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Posted by: baura ( )
Date: October 14, 2015 01:47AM

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> From the mormon perspective, Laban's murder was
> righteous, because "... better one man die than a
> people perish...", to quote made up scripture.

Quote the the rest of the scripture: "It is better that one
man should perish than that a nation should dwindle and perish
in unbelief."

So the justification for killing is religious belief. I other
words, Mormon scripture condones the idea of killing people in
order to further religious belief. Isn't that exactly what the
Lafferty brothers did? All they did was imitate Nephi.

I tell Mormons I'm scared to death of them because the book
they consider "the most correct book on earth and the
cornerstone of their religion" begins with the hero
decapitating a sleeping man because of what the voices in his
head tell him.

And before they balk at "voices in his head" I'll remind them
that the Book of Mormon says "Spirit." It doesn't say "angel"
or "the Lord" just "the Spirit." And Mormons are constantly
told that the way the Spirit speaks to them is through a "still
small voice" within them.

The Lafferty brothers received a revelation (though the Spirit)
and then carried it out just like Nephi did.

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Posted by: Lori C ( )
Date: October 14, 2015 01:52AM

The thing is...it's Oct 2015..and a church owned newspaper is printing this threat...NOW.

This is very much a real threat and I'm very seriously uncomfortable with it.

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Posted by: L Tom Petty ( )
Date: October 14, 2015 07:36AM

John 11:50
Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.


Once again, another verse lifted from the Bible.


Whoever wrote the BoM was pretty steeped in the language of the Bible.

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Posted by: Lori C ( )
Date: October 14, 2015 01:35AM

...acts of violence and beheadings. This article is saying..."boys you want to be a man...do what Nephi did...kill someone if voices in your head tell you to."

This is no different than the Laffery's.

It's serious to me.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: October 14, 2015 02:09AM

When they print nonsense like that, you'd think the DN had no shame. And they don't. Shame is for the disobedient and unbelieving, according to them.

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Posted by: Lori C ( )
Date: October 14, 2015 02:40AM

...but the thing is...it's this "nonsense" that gets people decapitated...blood atoned.

My years of research of the church took me mostly to the "past"...it happened "back then". MMM, blood atonement, JS's polygamy etc...was "back then". In my healing I've been trying to let this entire decades long process be something I study, understand, put in perspective, be grateful it's 2015 and we are more astute, have the net and can evolve and "move on"...but this article...brings it all to "right now". This brings the MMM and the motives behind it alive...right now and it tears open old wounds I've been trying to heal. Seriously if I told you the threats I've received during this whole..."Lori's undoing her entire past" chapter of my life, you'd be shocked. My life has been in danger more than once.

So, this...just is evil to me. Youths are reading this. Men are reading this. Domestic violence is already rife in the church due to it's evil patriarchy...and now...more violence.

I'm just sick of it.

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Posted by: lurking in ( )
Date: October 14, 2015 04:07AM

Take the article to your local police station and see if they think there's anything illegal in it (I know you're in NZ, but I'm guessing laws are similar to those in the US). You could also send a copy to the FBI. My prediction is that they will both say that there is nothing illegal about the article.

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Posted by: michaelm (not logged in) ( )
Date: October 14, 2015 06:48AM

There is probably nothing illegal about it, but social media might help to spread how disgusting it is when it is put in the context of 2015.

The opening paragraph seems innocent enough, like what is read in many religious articles. But the message of killing Laban, making Nephi a man changes everything. Add a picture from the media and the sickness of the paragraph becomes clear.

"In a world that sends so many false and destructive messages to young men about what it really means to be a man, the scriptures are a powerful source of light and truth, providing stirring examples of what it means to be a man and what the process is of becoming man."
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2295911.1437165090!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_970/isis18n-3-web.jpg?enlarged

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Posted by: Allen C ( )
Date: October 14, 2015 07:20AM

I'm an attorney in Missouri who has dealt with issues of free speech countless times. There's absolutely nothing illegal about this, and for good reason. Freedom of Speech is a powerful thing in America. It's nonsense like this that gives ExMos a bad name.

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Posted by: michaelm (not logged in) ( )
Date: October 14, 2015 07:50AM

The OP is in New Zealand. Are you licensed to practice there?

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Posted by: bookratt ( )
Date: October 14, 2015 09:19AM

Free speech which furthers or directly furthers illegal action or is spoken with the intention to cause harm, is actionable here, whether such speech is ultimately determined to be illegal or not.

Not certain about in NZ.

If the free speech ends up in the death of someone who acts on that speech, and it can be proven that the intention of the speech was that harm was intended or easily foreseen as a result of said speech, then the person who acted on the free speech as well as the person who says the words, can be arrested, charged, fined, tried, convicted and may go to jail, etc.

It may not be criminal on its face, but it may be a civil cause for action. Or, it can be both things.

Depends on the context, the words used, in what forum, who did what and when. Immediecy is crucial. If the words are said with the intention to spark a riot and a riot directly ensues, then it is probable the person who said them, is going to jail.

Inciting riots with speeches; saying words which are intended to lead to extreme provocation and immediate, illegal action at the time they are said, can still be said, But they are very often seen as exceptions to the protections of the constitutional right to free speech.

And most arguments already decided by the supremes state that the States shall have no restriction on their own abilities to restrict or limit speech, or even the right to restrict the rights of the people to peaceably assemble (ie: permits being required to busk, vend or preach on public streets; bonds that have to be posted by block parties or churches for festivals they hold on their own private property, etc), if information authorities have show it seems likely that harm, disturbance of the peace, violence, or other harm may come to others, if those things are not regulated.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.

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Posted by: shodanrob ( )
Date: October 14, 2015 09:01AM

Brigham Young followed this scripture. Blood Atonement comes to mind.

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Posted by: AmIDarkNow? ( )
Date: October 14, 2015 10:33AM

Send a link to the article with your comments to every media outlet you know.

That is legal action that you can take. The church is very afraid of the court of public opinion and on this one they lose big time.

The young men in ISIS become men all the time. How? By de-capitating captives in gods will.

Just.....like.........Nephi.

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Posted by: Mr. Inactive ( )
Date: October 14, 2015 10:43AM

In my mind the BOM is no different from a violent game for the computer like "Grand Theft Auto". As long as the DN talks about fantasy I'm O.K. with it. As soon as they cross the line into reality I have a problem with it.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: October 14, 2015 11:35AM

Mormonism wants (i.e. DEMANDS) that members jettison their own personal values, even those that coincide with Christ-Like living.

Examples include the way they endorse divorce, Laban's death, the MMM.

the GAs make it Fearful for members to rely on conscience, ethics-morals, even basic Kindness, empathy, & charity(the Real kind).

The goal of this strategy seems to be that members will be 100% reliant-dependent on living the virtual micro-management that SLC publishes & espouses.

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Posted by: AmIDarkNow? ( )
Date: October 14, 2015 11:50AM

And another thing.

How is it that God chooses to send an angel to remediate/forgive those who formerly went around murdering the faithful for sport and yet a drunk passed out man who was protecting his property from thieves is murdered in cold blood by this same charitable god?

Truly, when you look at the whole debacle from Labans point of view, he saw Nephi and his brothers as a band of shiesters and liars who were trying to steal his property who turned out to be far worse that he thought by becoming robbers, kidnappers and murderers (at least Nephi that is).

Yet according to the DN article that points to this terrible BOM story portrays the perfect example of how a righteous believing boy becomes a man when the "still small voice" comes a callin!

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Posted by: Chicken N. Backpacks ( )
Date: October 14, 2015 11:53AM

The comments are interesting because they think they're talking about real history. :-)

Anyway, I did like one comment that basically reads to me that Nephi must have been a jerk, because he was constantly badgering everyone about righteousness and God, pissing off his brothers, and this led to a thousand years of of conflict.

So, a guy who is a totally stuck up religious dickwad cajoles and alienates people because of his zealousness and it all leads to "...a nation dwindling and perishing in unbelief" anyway, so what good did killing Laban and taking the plates do?

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Posted by: Lori C ( )
Date: October 14, 2015 12:08PM

While obviously I know the BoM is pure fiction, I have jealous family members who don't. I have family members who eat, drink and breathe every word out of this church.

I was violently threatened by my brother last year. This is not a joke for me, this is not a "legal vs illegal" thing for me. This is real. So, yes, I will be taking this further and will start with my local police even if it's just so they can have a record of what is happening. I also may have a connection with the media here.

This has crossed a line for me. If you have ever been a victim of a Mormon bashing you'll know what I'm talking about. Usually happens in the living room, sometimes your bedroom where you family member of choice will sit you down and BERATE you for being a human being and for acting outside their power and control. They will attack your character, your past, your intentions...everything that makes you you. Usually they won't physically beat you, but not always. I got those too. But the emotional beatings from them to reassert their control over you can leave you wanting to die, it can and will make you fearful to live your life at all. If you have severe narcissist tbm parents they WILL poison everything about you to all your family/siblings, friends. It can and will destroy your life.

So yes, I've grown weary of the threats over and over and over. I'll print out a recent conference talk and this DN article and take it my nearest police. They don't take kindly to this stuff here. Australia is really serious about this too and I have a friend in the media over there.

Thanks for all your comments. I've had enough. I've really had enough.

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