I just had an exchange with Robert Rosskropf, a Mormon apologist with FairMormon. We were discussing two things:

He maintains that Joseph Smith and Fanny Alger did NOT have sex, because DNA was done on Fanny's descendants and Joseph Smith's DNA was not found (according to Ugo Perego, another FairMormon apologist, who did the tests, but refuses to reveal the names of the Alger descendants).

My point to Rosskropf was: "People can have sex without having descendants, and there is NO WAY we can trust Perego's study when he refuses to give us the names of the participants."

Second thing. I asked Rosskropf this question:

"Can we agree that Joseph Smith LIED when he said 'I am accused of having seven wives when I can only find one'"? His reply was:

"Joseph Smith didn't lie at all. That was just a deflection"

Now, according to Robert, a "deflection" is NOT a "lie". What is a "deflection"? That is a comment that "deflects" a question deceptively. So, a "deflection" is not a lie. If I had sex with my babysitter, and I was asked "Did you have sex with your babysitter?" and I said: "What babysitter, I can't find any babysitter!" while in truth I DID have sex with my babysitter, that is NOT a lie but a "deflection".

When the people you don't like tell a lie, you call it a lie.

When people you do like tell a lie, you call it a deflection.

I would have shot right back.

"No, he didn't deflect. He lied. Go research the definition of lie"

He did what Jehovahs Witnesses call, Theocratic warfare! That is lie to defend his position but pretend he didnt!Or as we say in England, he was economic with the truth, But in reality he out and out lied ,end of story!

He was also a con man, so perhaps he was the first Decepticon.

Bill Clinton and Joseph Smith should be buddies!

I'm too lazy to look up the reference but their own gospel doctrine states that when you lead someone to believe something you know is untrue you are lying.

"I'm too lazy to look up the reference but their own gospel doctrine states that when you lead someone to believe something you know is untrue you are lying."

Yeah, I think it was Dallin Oaks or another apostle who said something like "A lie is any statement made which is intended to deceive." Deflection would obviously fall under that.

Chapter 31 of Gospel Principles on Honesty:

"Lying is intentionally deceiving others. . .There are many other forms of lying. When we speak untruths, we are guilty of lying. We can also intentionally deceive others by a gesture or a look, by silence, or by telling only part of the truth.

***Whenever we lead people in any way to believe something that is not true, we are not being honest.***

The Lord is not pleased with such dishonesty, and we will have to account for our lies."

https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-31-honesty?lang=eng

Oh....HELL NO!!

Lies for the lard aren't lies.

Protect the hive at all costs. Most recently the brethren told members not to look up or trust church history on the internet, except LDS.org essays, of course, but they don't want members reading those either...

willful deception (deflection by it's true name) is exactly the same as lying.

If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck.....

Kind if like when Hinckley was asked if he was a prophet and responded with "I am sustained as such". He didn't want to "lie" on national television and say he was a prophet, so he "deflected" and pretty much said "the members THINK I am".

Maybe you could ask him about other specific examples of Joe and others lying about polygamy. Members in England had heard "rumors" that the church was a polygamous group. When questioned about it, what did John Taylor say? Did he tell them that he was a polygamist? Was it an honest "deflection" to mislead these people that probably never would have traveled with them to Utah if they knew the truth.

Maybe some day he will stop deluding himself. The only one who seems to be buying his lie that Joseph "deflected" is himself. Besides, how is deflecting being honest? At least you don't have to torture yourself to make your religion make sense. You get the easy job of asking the right questions to expose Mormon lies.

He sold his imaginary visions as mythology. Good to know what is really going on! :-)

I am still surprised that the Mormon apologists don't go full on stupid and say that it isn't a lie because Joseph Smith really couldn't find his plural wives. I mean you try to keep track of 33 plus wives while running the Church of God. It isn't easy.

"I am still surprised that the Mormon apologists don't go full on stupid and say that it isn't a lie because Joseph Smith really couldn't find his plural wives."

The problem with that idea is that most of Smith's plural wives were probably sitting in the congregation when he made that statement.

I wasn't trying to say it was true. I was trying to say that in desperation their apologists would say absurd things to satisfy the TBMs. They might say something like it was opposite day so Joseph Smith was really telling the truth.

Yeah in my seminary class last year, it was doctrine and covenant year. We were shown this movie about the life of Joey Boy. They made him look like he was a playful farm boy, hard worker, and that he only had Emma. The video made no mention of polygamy. Just goes to show how they teach us.

"They made him look like he was a playful farm boy, hard worker, and that he only had Emma. The video made no mention of polygamy."

Don't you wish you could have raised your hand and asked your teacher where all of Joseph's plural wives were?

"Joseph Smith didn't lie at all. That was just a deflection" -

Did O.J. learn from JS? We all know he "deflected" too. Is there any evidence that O. J. was ever in the CULT because he sure knows how to deflect like JS.

so another MORmON rapes the language AGAIN, like Joe Smith on his latest teen age bride.

Do these people/ MORmONS have any idea of how stupid it sounds to contend that Smith never had sex with any of his brides ? According to MORmON convention, The ONLY acceptable allowance for polygamy is breeding. Breeding can not happen with out sex.
SO, the pilot, the point, the initiator, the lead man for implementing the breeding program has such questionable selection of breeding partners / wives that MORmONS, out of sheer desperation, have to turn around and make the absurd claim that Smith was not actually having sex with the women that Smith *married* in order to try to salvage Smith's reputation. That is SO STUPID and SO desperate and pathetic, and such a LIE that its almost as bad as committing adultery.

"Joseph Smith didn't lie at all. That was just a deflection"

Yeah right, good one. Ask the apologist what the Judge and Jury

will think if he applies that standard to his own life!

I misread it.
I saw the word "defecated" instead.
And I thought, "Well, yeah, that works..."