Just had a lovely online chat with the Missionaries!And it went like this.I seriously feel for the new converts that suddenly become missionaries.I also do not understand why the church does not put it's best equipped,most knowledgable representatives forward to answer the public's questions.Hope I did a good job as a Nevermormon!

Hello!
7:18 PM

A
Hi could you please explain more to me about the planet Kolob and eternal progression?
7:18 PM

Minjung
Hi, what makes you ask?
7:18 PM

Interest in understanding this unique perspective.
7:19 PM

M
Have you heard of the Plan of Salvation?
7:20 PM

A
Yes I have heard of that,that basically if we follow the teachings of Jesus,God's messenger, then we will live happily in this life and have hope for the afterlife too.

M
Plan of Salvation is the basic to understand the answers to the questions you asked.
7:23 PM
https://www.lds.org/manual/the-plan-of-salvation?lang=eng



A
Ok.Can we,as men,become like God's in the afterlife?And are there many Gods in many different universes?

M
Since we can only know what has been revealed to us, I don't know answers to all the questions you have. But there is an article you can read about on that
7:25 PM
https://www.lds.org/topics/becoming-like-god?lang=eng
Have you met with the missionaries before?

A
Ok thank you.It is a pity that church members cannot answer questions about the Prophet's teachings ('As God once was...') to help people in understanding the church's beliefs.No I have not met with them.
7:27 PM

M
Understanding comes all at once. It comes over time. As members of the church, we try our best to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, as Jesus Christ is the center of this church and this church is being led by him today.
7:29 PM
If you want, you can meet with the missionaries and learn more about the church. They can help you take those steps, so that one day, you can understand more about God and His church.
Have you read the Book of Mormon before?
7:31 PM

A
Yes I have heard of the milk before meat technique.However I do believe people prefer to understand all of the doctrine initially before committing.Maybe this is something the church could look into?As some elders have not heard of alot of doctrine themselves such as the non-practice of polygamy but the basic principle that it will still exist in the afterlife.Many also claim to not have heard of 'Kolob'.

M
No, Kolob is something that I have never heard of until I became a missionary. I heard about it through someone who was not a member of the church. Missionaries are not trained to answer those questions, some of them are new converts. But they are called by a prophet, and they have the authority and power of God to teach the doctrine of Christ through Holy Ghost, which will help us to have eternal progression and become like our Father in Heaven.
7:36 PM

A
Ok I understand their good intentions.I just think that some deeper understanding of the church's teachings would be very helpful for people who are interested.Thank you for your time.Good evening.
7:38 PM

M
mormonnewsroom.org is a great website you can look at!
7:38 PM
Have a great day!

Thank you for your interest in chatting with a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
What would you like to talk about?

Now chatting with Daniela
D
Hi Bill! Welcome to mormon.org my companion and I will help you today
12:02 PM

B
Hi, I'm a new convert to the church and I came across some things in the scriptures and on LDS.org that nobody ever bothered sharing with me that'd I need to resolve or I'm going to have to resign.
12:03 PM
Can you answer some questions for me about the scriptures?

D
Really? sure, we will do our best answering your questions
12:04 PM

B
#1. Do you believe that God turned the descendants of Cain and the Lamanites skin black because of their transgressions, like it says in the PoGP and the BoM?
12:04 PM
2Nephi 5:21 "wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."
12:06 PM
Alma 3:6 "And the skins of the Lamanites were dakr acording to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them..."
3 Nephi 2:14-15 "And their curse was taken from them (the Lamanites) and their skin became white like unto the Nephites."
12:08 PM
Moses 7:22 "...for the seed of Cain were black, and had not place among them."

D
Yes, those scriptures are true. This is how the Laminates and Nephites were able to distinguish one another
12:09 PM
What do you think about these scriptures?

B
So if God cursed people in the past with black skin for being wicked and white skin for being righteous, and God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, why wouldn't he turn people's skin black today for being evil, like Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and Osama Bin Laden?
12:10 PM
And why wouldn't he turn people like MLK white as a ghost?
Either God changed his ways, or those scriptures are just 19th Century racist myths that got mistaken for 'The Word of God"

H
I am sorry you misunderstand the scriptures.
12:12 PM

B
What is my misunderstanding?
12:12 PM

D
Maybe because we don't need a mark anymore. Why did you decided to join the church?
12:12 PM

H
What are your purpose to chat?
12:13 PM

B
Why did I join the church? Because of the social benefits mainly.
12:13 PM
Who's H?

D
Hoi is my companion. We are missionaries for the church
12:14 PM

H
How do you think God can help us to understand His words?
12:15 PM

B
Hi Hoi.
12:16 PM
How do I think God helps us understand his words?

D
And that is true. We worship the same God of Abraham and Noah and Adam. Did you apply the promise in Moroni 10:3-5
12:17 PM

B
The God shown in Figure 7, Facsimille 2, of the Book of Abraham, isn't the same God as the God of Abraham, it's the God of the Egyptians, Min, according to the experts who know how to read Egyptian Hieroglypics.
12:19 PM
God told Moses and the chosen people not to worship the Gods of their slavemasters, didn't he? So why is the Egyptian God identified as God by Joseph Smith in the scriptures.
?
And why is God depicted sexually aroused, fully erect in LDS scriptures, isn't that kind of blasphemous?
12:22 PM

D
Did you apply the promise of Moroni 10:3-5 in the book of Mormon? It seems to us that you read the Book of Mormon and Pearl of Great Price very carefully. Did you have the opportunity to do the same with this promise?
12:25 PM

B
Yes I applied the promise of Moroni in the BoM and I had a good feeling about it, but I was always not comfortable with the parts of the scriptures that denigrated black skin and associated white skin with being virtuous, lovely, delightsome and pure. That seems unique to Mormonism.
12:27 PM
How do you resolve the uniquely racist aspects of Mormon scriptures and history with Christ's commandemnt to love our fellow men as ourselves?
I can't. That's really one of my biggest challenges right now, especially with the racism that's still alive and well in today's society and getting worse. These racist scriptures only seem to give credence to white supremacist point of view.
12:29 PM

D
Well, we can testified to you that the good feeling that you had when you prayed was the Holy Ghost confirming to your heart the the Book of Mormon is true. There are many things that we would like to understand more about the Book of Mormon or the Bible, but first we have to have a humble heart and a good desire to know more.
12:29 PM

B
Oh I have a humble heart and all of that, I'm just trying to reconcile the uniquely racist Mormon scriptures and history with Christ's commandments and i can't.
12:30 PM
I'm asking you how you do it personally.
The scriptures above seem blatantly racist to me and anybody else who's not Mormon.
12:31 PM

D
I am from Bolivia and there are a lot of people with dark skin color that probably are descendants of the Laminates and that are some of the most humble and pure people I ever met and it doesn't mean that because of their color they are not righteous.
12:32 PM

B
Interesting, but that has nothing to do with the racism in Mormon scriptures.
12:32 PM
Moving right along I had another question about something I need to resolve and perhaps you can help me with how you resolve it.
Have you read the recent paper the church published on lds.org titled "Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo"?
Were you aware of the fact that they revealed for the first time in 180 years that Joseph Smith had 34 wives, 11 of whom were teenagers and 13 of whom were married to other men?
12:35 PM
How do you reconcile that with God's commandment to not covet your neighbor's wife?
12:36 PM
And the Law of the Priesthood (D&C 132:61), which condemns marrying women who are already married as adultery?
Not to mention the law of the land and common human decency, which should tell us that taking another man's wife is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!!
on so many different levels.

D
Yes, there is nothing secret in the church and this information was available in lds.org
But again everything goes back to the Book of Mormon. Because if we have an answer that the Book of Mormon is true, then everything else is true. The Book of Mormon is the way God provided for us to know if whether Joseph Smith was a prophet called by God.
12:39 PM

B
So because the Book of Mormon is true, that makes it ok for us to claim our neighbor's wife as our own, thus violating the 10 commandments?
12:40 PM
That information was not available on lds.org before this year, which is the first time in 180 years the church has told the truth about Joseph's illegal relationships with other men's wives.
12:41 PM
He violated the law, every law pertaining to marriage by claiming other men's wives, as did Brigham Young. Where's the law that permitted them to marry other men's wives?
And make babies with them, like Brigham did with Zina Jacobs, wife of Henry Jacobs, after sending him away over seas on his 3rd mission, while Brigham stayed behind and made babies with poor Henry's wife Zina.
12:43 PM
Google it, Zina Huntington Jacobs.

H
One question. do you know the Book of Mormon is true?
12:44 PM

B
She never divorced Henry, but married Joseph and Brigham after she married Henry.
12:44 PM
Where's the law that allowed them to do that to poor Henry and Zina?

H
We know that the book of Mormon is true. Because we read, ponder and pray. Thank you to chat with us.
12:45 PM

B
You didn't answer my question.
12:45 PM
I'm about to resign if I can't resolve these questions, seriously.
I was sold a deeply flawed product and the missionaries lied by ommission. That's fraud.

D
Would you like us to transfer the chat to someone that might be able to answer your questions better than us?
12:46 PM

B
sure.
12:46 PM
Or ask them and get me an honest answer.

Now chatting with Taylor H
B
Again, where's the law written that permitted Joseph and Brigham to claim their follower's wives as their own? I can only find condemnation of that kind of behavior in the scriptures and the law as adultery.
12:47 PM

T
Hello, how are you today Bill?
12:48 PM

B
I'm about to resign my membership in the church if I can't get an honest answer to the above question.
12:48 PM

T
Which question sorry?
12:49 PM

B
Where is the law written that permitted Joseph and Brigham to claim their follower's wives as their own?
12:49 PM

T
I don't actually know what you are referring to...
12:51 PM
Are you a member of the church Bill?

B
The recent LDS Essay, "Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo" admits Joseph Smith claimed 13 of his follower's wives as his own. Where's the law that permitted that kind of behavior?
12:52 PM

T
Oh the essay, one sec, is it alright if I pull it up?
12:52 PM

B
Are you not aware of the fact that JS and BY claimed their follower's wives as their own?
12:53 PM
I wasn't until I read that article and started doing the research on my own, especially the books they referenced, like, "In Sacred Loneliness" which is shocking.

T
Ok this is the paragraph I found about it, is this the right one?
12:56 PM

B
I cannot in good conscience associate myself with a faith that was started by two guys who stole their follower's wives and made babies with the, especially since there are only laws condemning that as adultery.
12:56 PM

T
Following his marriage to Louisa Beaman and before he married other single women, Joseph Smith was sealed to a number of women who were already married. Neither these women nor Joseph explained much about these sealings, though several women said they were for eternity alone. Other women left no records, making it unknown whether their sealings were for time and eternity or were for eternity alone.
12:56 PM

J
Bill going back when you first gained your testimony of Joseph What changed between now and then.
12:57 PM

B
Exactly. That's adultery according to the law, every law.
12:57 PM

J
Think about it you gained you witness from God what has changed?
12:58 PM

B
Learning the truth about his adulterous relationships with his follower's wives and teenage daughters, 20 years younger than him. The missionaries lied by ommitting that information.
12:58 PM

J
We dont know all the facts behind what happened and only God and produce pure truth. Your witness came from God. I dont think they lied.. Per se/ He only had one teenage daughter
12:58 PM

B
Now I feel like I'm worshipping Warren Jeffs when I sing "Praise to the Man"
12:59 PM

J
My point if you prayed and gained a witness from God why would God lie?
12:59 PM

B
The missionaries lied by ommitting the fact that JS and BY (pretend) married their follower's wives. That's fraud.
1:00 PM

J
No you prayed and gained a testimony and were baptized God told you it was true not the missionaries testified to that fact. I bear witness that this is all true. Your testimony is of God we invite you to ask Him again.
1:00 PM

T
Bill, do you love Jesus Christ, and desire to follow Him?
1:00 PM

B
I love God, who said not to covet your neighbor's wife, which JS and BY violated. I can't find ANYthing in the law or the scriptures except condemnation of that adulterous behavior.
1:01 PM
And since none of you can cite a law that permitted it, I'm resigning today. I'm free.
From this abusive Doomsday Sex CULT of Joseph's Myth!
Thank you!!!

J
Bill Think of the peace you felt when you prayed about joseph smith. Where did you gain your testimony? You asked God you read the book of mormon and God told you it was true
1:02 PM
Why would He lie

B
I guess it was satan telling me JS was a Prophet, because he couldn't be a real prophet of God if he violated God's laws against his perverted sexual behavior with other men's wives and teenage daugthers.
1:03 PM

J
Interesting Satan doesn't produce the fruits of the Spirit. WHy not God to God and ask Him again. we dont know all the facts behind everything
1:04 PM
But what we do know is that God loves you and that This church is true For God has spoken it to our sou.
l

B
I can read the 10 commandments and understand them just fine. JS and BY vioalted them by claiming their follower's wives as their own. That's what God told me.
1:05 PM
What did God tell you about JS and BY claiming their follower's wives as their own? Is he cool with it now?
He told me he wasn't kidding when he said not to covet your neighbors wife.

T
Bill, you are making rash assumptions and degrading the character of two prophets of God. They were commanded to take multiple wives, the article suggests reasons, but that isn't as important. Knowing his character, Joseph didn't commit adultery.
1:06 PM
And Bill, we all make mistakes and sin, what did Christ say to the woman taken in adultery

B
You're lying. Where did God tell JS and BY to claim their follwoer's wives as their own?
1:06 PM

J
He told me this. That Joseph Smith is a prophet and that understand would come in time. And it is.
1:06 PM

T
Who are you to say that someone can't repent, who are you to judge the prophet, hundreds of years later with no evidence.
1:07 PM
I feel like you might need to take some time to cool off, and ponder what Jake has shared with you. Regardless of who the prophet was, the Book of Mormon stands as a witness that Christ is the Messiah, and that Joseph was in fact the prophet of God, and I know that that means we can trust Him. Look at His teachings, he taught us to follow Christ. This is all we ask Bill. We invite you to pray and ponder the message of the Book of Mormon and the messages it contains.
1:09 PM

J
We love you!
1:09 PM

The chat session has ended.

Who are you to say that someone can't repent, who are you to judge the prophet, hundreds of years later with no evidence.
1:07 PM
Lol. Who are you to say God turned people black when they sinned?
Thats a completely bogus 19th Century racist myth used to justify enslaving Africans, which has been disproven by genetic science.
Its as if MORmONS live in a 19th C time watp and tgey like it just fine there.
Kinda like ISIS liked the good old days just fine,back when Muhammed was raping little girls and lopping off the heads of his enemies.
Mormons like the good old days of 1890's Kirtland and Nauvoo, even with all those children being raped by Joseph's Myth, and his followers cuckolded into whoring out their wives to be sex slaves of Joseph's Myth.Its a sick religion and exmos want to defend these liars?
I was a missionary once too and i admit lying for the Lord, selling myths i didnt really believe, but i had certain things i wouldn't defend, like racism, in any form, but nobody really asked me very tough questions about it, except JW's and Pentacostles, but they had their even more digmatic and absurd beliefs.
I wush somebidy had asked me rgese same questions on my mission, but nobody bothered doing so.
Pribably because it was pre internet days and nibidy knew, including me. I ONLY ever found out about Josephs Myth raping little girls and other mens wives because of the internet and niw they want to pretend this information was alwats there?
Fucking lying sacks of shit!.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2015 09:30PM by koriwhore.

There oughtta be a site where these chat sessions are posted to show the poor cult droids trying desperately to stay on script.

I propose the name "Bazinga.com"

Now I wanna go online and have a chat with them....

How long before the cult orders them to immediately end or stonewall chat sessions that start to go down any of the 'forbidden' subject paths? This has got to piss them off!

"Thank you for your interest in chatting with a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
What would you like to talk about?

There are no missionaries available. While you wait please take a moment get to know some members of the church."

And then they play the most anoying and fake PR "I'm a Mormon" add you've ever seen with a free spirit dancing and playing violin on the rooftops of the city and in the forest and in the desert then on stage.
I can only take about 2 seconds of it. It's unbearaby fake and not representative of my experience with Mormonism AT ALL.
I mean, to be honest, it is my heritage, at least it's the only heritage anybody bothered writing down. They wrote it to mmake the Mormons seem super heroic.
I always wanted to be like them when I was a kid, like a pioneer, out trail blazing a new trail through the wilderness. I love that. I loved being a Boy Scout. It taught me a lot about respect for nature and the outdoors.
Unfortunately I got a little jaded when I found out at about age 40 that my whole scout Mormon troop I grew up with got raped by our scout leader and nobody had the courage to stand up and do the right thing for 30 years.
Finally me and my friends did something. We spoke up, at great cost. It cost us relationships with our Mormon family members and best friends. We're their worst enemies now, because we know about the abuse and we spoke up and keep speaking up.
All the Morg Drones want to do is silence any discussion of Joseph smith and Brigham Young having sex with barely teenage girls and other men's wives, even though they KNOW it's published by their own church.
They expect us to forgive Joseph Smith and Brigham Young for the samem thing Warren Jeffs is serving life for right now?
Fuck them.
They're my enemies.
They're the enemies of the truth.
They're the enemies of justice for all those abused by Joseph's Myth, including Elizabeth Smart, all those kids and women Warren Jeffs raped, All those hubands who had their wives stolen from them, like Henry Jacobs.
Where the hell is his memorial on line, while the church lionizes his wife, Zina for cheating on her husband with Brigham and Joseph Smith.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2015 10:54PM by koriwhore.

OMG they're in total denial. Absolutely clueless they are. Hilarious!

It really does make them sound like droids, doesn't it?

"I also do not understand why the church does not put it's best equipped,most knowledgable representatives forward to answer the public's questions."

What makes you think they aren't? :-)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2015 07:24PM by left4good.

This one did not go so well.


Now chatting with Jordan
J
hello!
9:51 PM

E
Hello Jordan
9:51 PM

J
how are you? what can we help you with\
9:51 PM
?

E
Nothing in particular, I thought maybe you would appreciate someone who is not out to be a nuisance. I imagine you get a lot of people like that.
9:53 PM
What's the weather like?
9:54 PM

Conversation was terminated with no further interaction.

Sure, they look like any other missionary who is trained to disregard anything "anti." They're not allowed to look into it on their missions, and resisting your pressure will just give them an adrenaline battle high, make them feel persecuted, and strengthen their testimonies.
I know. I was there.

I've also gotta say that your attitude(s) are very combative and not at all listening. I know they're not directly giving you the answer you want, but your refusal (in many cases) to respond directly to their questions is exactly what you're complaining that they're doing.
What, exactly, are you hoping to accomplish?

I think he's accomplishing a lot, combative or not. Forcing someone to read an essay that says your hero married other men's wives and teenagers, and then making them say things like, "Well, it was only one teenager," or "Some women said they were sealed for eternity only, and others, well, we just don't know..." Eventually, even the deeply deluded, forced to say, "God told us JS was a prophet," in the face of other people who respond, "Why would God tell you that when the 10 Commandments are very clear?" gives one pause, even if it happens only on a sleepless night a month from now. The person, staring at the ceiling, says to themselves, "Good point. What am I talking about? Am I really prepared to say, 'I don't care what JS did, he could have killed two people in a shoot-out and I'd still defend him!' Or am I taking blind faith way too far?"

I hope to challenge the absurd lies of Joseph's Myth, which is responsbile for exploiting the past 5 generations of my family and abusing a hell of a lot of good friends of mine.(want proof, just ask, I got plenty)
This abusive, sexist, racist, misogynist pagan CULT continues to be propagated to this day by the world's largest standing army of nearly 90,000 Doomsday Sex CULT recruiters. EVERY time I ask a missionary about the absurdities of the abusive faith I inherited, unfortunately, they lie through their teeth.
God NEVER told JS and BY to violate his commandments by stealing other men's wives, but they insist God did. NOWHERE does God tell a man to claim his neighbor's wife as his own, quite the contrary. Every law ever written condemns that perverted behavior as adultery. They just can't admit what the scriptures clearly say.
The one part of the Bible I Do believe in is the Golden Rule and nothing about abusing power to cuckold your follower's by rapingtheir wives and turning honorABLE women into sex slaves has nothing to do with the Gospel of Jesus Christ, its evil.
What do you hope to accomplish by defending these brainwashing, sex CULT recruiters/predator/drones?
Attempting to silence serious discourse with missionaries in an open exmo forum?
Lol



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2015 12:25PM by koriwhore.

The golden rule doesn't come from the Bible. Lots of people think it does though.

This is where it comes from:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule

Koriwhore,E,
Hopefully we can plant some seeds.


Alyssum,
Actually I felt that the missionary I was speaking to was evasive and tried repeatedly to divert my attention or persuade me that there were no real answers to my questions.I simply asked about Kolob and eternal progression but was referred to the 'Plan of Salvation' and asked why I was asking questions?

Though they invite you to talk to the missionaries to learn more about the church and it's beliefs?

If they can't answer the questions honestly, that alone should bother the hell out of them.
I love Ayan Hirsi Ali, who was asked about how she helped women who were being abused, like she was, by Islam, her response was brilliant, "I cause cognitive dissonance, which will either drive them insane or drive them sane. I hope for the latter, which is all I can do."
I feel the same way, "I've got less than an hour to ask Socratic questions that make them think because they have no pat answer. They can't rely on some cliche they learned in the MTC or growing up, or from trading folklore with other missionaries. I know. I was a missionary.
But I never would have defended this nonsense the church is finally being forced to 'reveal' due to the internet. It's gotta hurt membership. Anybody with a conscience, who can't answer these serious questions people are asking about their racist, homophobic, misogynist faith, need answers, especially given the racial climate in the world these days.
Where does the church really stand on race issues?
Mormons can't claim to be representatives of the Prince of Peace when they still maintain the most racist scriptures on the planet.
Until those racist 19th Century Myths are deleted from every Mormon scripture, it's a racist institution and it shoujld be torn down brick by brick, as light is shed on this fraudulent pyramid scheme, caste system.
Mormons want to pretend to be all nice, when anybody can google Mormon racism and come up with about 6 or 7 extremely racist statements that Dylan Roof would love, not Jesus Christ.,

So long as they can get you to believe the BOM is true, then all the rest of the nonsense can be ignored. Just trust your "good feeling" which is supposed to mean it's true and forget the "bad feeling" you get when reading the racists parts of it or when you read about JS's multiple teenage and already married wives. Sounds like a cult to me.

Its not very satisying when they check their brains at the door and cant answer simple questions decent pepple have about their indecent scriptures, adulterous PRofits and abusive CULTure.

"Now I feel like I'm worshipping Warren Jeffs when I sing "Praise to the Man" "

lol hahaha

Missionary Suckers... poor kids.

I enjoyed every letter of that post nevermo:)

just cut to the chase and ask them how magnets work !

Haha,thanks Heat27,
I don't as much as you Ex-Mormons but I try.

It may not originate in the Bible, but it is in the Bible.

<<The "Golden Rule" has been attributed to Jesus of Nazareth, who used it to summarize the Torah: "Do to others what you want them to do to you. This is the meaning of the law of Moses and the teaching of the prophets"[50] (Matthew 7:12 NCV, see also Luke 6:31).>>

Copied from your link

Its a universal principle, common to all ethical behavior, which is sorely lacking amongst Mormon hypocrites.