I've been thinking a lot about the recent discussions here about sex addiction, porn addiction, sexual shaming, etc. We've focused mainly on men, but we haven't talked much about women with high sex drives and how they are affected by the church (maybe because men are presumed by TBMs to have a higher sex drive no matter what, even if the woman expresses otherwise).

My TBM ex and I had fights because, while he admitted to a high sex drive himself and to 'struggling' with 'lustful thoughts,' I was 'slutty' and 'loose' for wanting lots of sex with him and for talking about it openly. He, of course, partook, but other Mormon girls weren't like that and were always withholding. It's a double standard for men--they are told how incredibly horny they always are naturally as men, then told never to express it, and there is no room for men who aren't as sexual in that equation, or for 'natural' expression of sexual needs. But for women, too--you are told how naturally non-sexual women are and repeatedly told that all you want is clearly flowers, romance, and children, but then told not to deny your husband. So you are preemptively told, essentially, to dislike sex. However, there's also no room in there for women who DO like sex, or want to experiment. When faced with this, most Mormon guys will look down on her and generally not know what to do. It's outside of the script; man wants sex constantly, woman says OK for babies for the celestial kingdom. TBMs are basically doomed to repeat that ad nauseum until they get a new script.

Women and sex and the ideas from the Victorian age about what's appropriate. TSCC takes it to a much more extreme level.

This is what I was taught. My ex doesn't believe this is what I was taught. I still have those messages running through my head. I have to work on dismissing those old messages all the time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2015 05:05PM by cl2.

Here's what baffles me:

Hetero men, whether they be mormon, muslim, fundie, or non-affiliated, that are not enthralled with the idea of a woman with a healthy sexual appetite.

I simply, every time I rattle it through my brain, am unable to logically process what drives men to suppress sexuality in women, or to seek out women who are suppressed sexually.

Women who masturbate frequently, who are openly (but appropriately) sexual, who have lots of orgasms, who are not ashamed of their sexuality, who are not disgusted by porn, who communicate their sexual wants and proclivities, are simply the best.

I've been married to 2 women in my life, one that I'll generously describe as having some sexual hang-ups, and one who is incredibly uninhibited and expressive sexually.

Absolutely. Absolutely no comparison.

From a frustration / self-esteem / confusion standpoint, for the man anyway, absolutely no comparison between type 1 and type 2.

I'll take a slut every day of the week, including Thursdays.

(But that's just me.)

Everything you wrote is right on ..... except that part of "I'll take a slut every day of the week" as I'd prefer "I'll take a slut every NIGHT of the week" :)

I think your both wrong about on thing.

"I'll take a slut every day of the week"
"I'll take a slut every NIGHT of the week"

The correct statement
"I'll take a slut every day and night of the week"

I'll take type 2 a-n-y-t-i-m-e!


ETA: Didn't like the term "slut" due to negative connotations, didn't like the time limitation. ;^)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2015 05:29PM by Bruce A Holt.

The reason I use the word slut is because in traditional society, slut has all sorts of negative and shameful connotations.

When in reality, if applied correctly, a slut is a woman that enjoys sex, is comfortable with her own sexuality, is openly sexual, is not ashamed of her sexuality, etc.

So much better than the baby-talking infantilized prudes that view sex as icky, shameful, a necessary evil, etc.

Gah. No thank you.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/pamela-madsen/why-dont-we-trust-young-women-with-their-own-vaginas_b_7966452.html

Where's MY parade?!?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhdNnsgZFHU

Love Ms. Cho!

I have a tbm friend in Utah who is in a sex addict group for lds women... She doesn't like to give me details because she's embarrassed but I've always wanted to know what it's about.

I married w/in a year of my mission. I was 21. She was 19. Throughout the 20 year marriage, I observed that she was a major flirt with other men in the ward, especially when we were married students. After returning to our home state, and during the years that followed, she would continue to flirt. One time I caught her in a phone affair with a member of the Bishopric. I came home from work early to once again find her on the phone with him, giggling, and talking about non-church related stuff. I complained to the SP and it stopped.

I later encouraged her to go back to school to finish her degree, when after her night classes she ended up sleeping with another married man in her class. She confessed to the Bishop, who placed her on probation for a year. The probation was extended another year to which I inquired of the Bishop. All he would tell me is that she had a sexual addiction. I was furious that he wouldn't give me any details, and I insisted that she give me answers. She denied anything of course. Finally I caught her again and divorced her soon thereafter. We still had teens at home that told me that she would bed man after man after man in the family home from various dating web sites. She told my teens, "Well I was never able to sow my wild oats at BYU, and I'm just gettin' out of my system."

I do believe she was addicted. I don't blame myself for her problems. We had a deal and she broke it. The deal was that she agree to be my partner through life, and although the contract did not state that no boyfriends were allowed - it was inherent in the contract. Yeah, women can be addicted to sex.

Totally agree. I wasn't looked for sex with anyone but my ex at the time, but wanting sex with my own husband made me "slutty" to him. I never even talked about other attractive people to him, while he did to me with women. Just as porn or wanting lots of sex doesn't make a guy a sex or porn addict, a high sex drive doesn't make a woman a sex addict either, so then when someone really does have an issue like your ex, it's harder to spot because EVERYTHING is an "addiction" and incredibly overblown to begin with.

Disclaimer: I've been cheated on, I understand the pain.

That being said, I want to make sure that you're not saying that a sex addiction is equated with healthy sexuality.

sex addiction = dysfunction

healthy sexual appetite = function

I say this, because it seems to me that your ex was addicted to the chemical rush of forbidden love, to the ability to elicit wanton lust from many men, to continuously feel like she felt when you two were engaged.

If your ex was insatiable in bed, and wanted sex / orgasms 24 / 7, then I would say she had an actual addiction the biochemistry associated with sex.

If she continuously flirted with other men, which inevitably led to the horizontal mambo with said men, then I'd say she was addicted to attention, not sex.

But that's just me.



Woops, supposed to be tagged under anon ex hubby's post.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2015 06:54PM by schlock.

That was the bishops opinion, but as we all know everything is an addiction in TSCC. I didn't think she was addicted even back then. I honestly don't know. She's the non-committed type. She's been in and out of multiple failed relationships since our marriage. I think you are right about her. Her behavior, with probably 30 men, is extremely risky. She picked up a few STDs and even got pg.

Sounds more like a lack of self-esteem, impulsivity, other mental illness, or plain old desire for novelty and attention. What some people call sex addiction is a symptom of many other mental illnesses. I'm no armchair psychologist, but.

I think many Mormons perpetuate their sexual culture because it not only gives men a legitimate excuse for lusting after other women, but it justifies polygamy as the natural order of the CK. It is patriarchy.

I don't think Mormon men want to feel dominated by a women with a high sex drive.

I do need to admit I feel like a got a lot of sex-positive messages from the lds women who were younger than my mother (who is the poster child for prude, btw.) Here's a quick story... Costco used to have their developed photos out in the open for pick up an one time my sister snooped saw nude photos of the YM president. We were both horrified and thrilled at the time.

News flash:

Having a healthy sex drive does not constitute a Sex addicted

woman. There is a big difference. Don't let any one shame you

because you like sex. Its a good thing. Being addicted is not.

This is not a topic I'm very comfortable discussing, but consider that I ended up married to someone gay. Talk about crazy.

The thing I learned at age 20 was that it was wonderful to be desired. I dated several nonmormons. I'd never had much success with mormons, but I was a very good little mormon girl. The nonmormons treated me better by far than any mormon guy ever did and respected my beliefs. I never forgot and the memories kept me going during some really bad years. I am back with the first nonmormon I ever dated at age 20. I have been for 10 years.

Even being with a gay man who actually I believe had a much better attitude towards sex than mormon guys I knew (in the singles ward) changed my whole view towards sex. He didn't treat me like I was a slut because I liked sex. I won't go into what my boyfriend says.

But I have to work regularly on my feelings of "If you like sex, you are a bad girl." That is what I was raised to believe. I told my boyfriend recently, "As a mormon, one of my first exposures to sex was sitting in the bishop's office at age 12 and being asked if I masturbated or necked and petted." No wonder we are all so messed up!!!!

what?? a bishop asked you if you masterbated?? I thought they only did that with boys?

every dance card interview and any other interview. Any time I had to talk to the bishop, he asked if I masturbated. I didn't know what it was. I just knew by how he asked that it was bad if I said yes. I had an idea, but I was VERY, VERY sheltered.

My sister reminded me a few years ago that he would stare us down after we answered "no" as though we were lying and would change our minds. He was the bishop from age 12 to 17 for me. He was my best friend's dad.

I most certainly got asked if I masturbated right before being forced to be dunked for the dead as a 12 yro girl.....

So many mormon men have hangups abuout sex thanks to the church.

With the exception of my exmo BF, but he's an exception.

Its true that non mormons have a healthier attitude, I've found

that to be true and refreshing.

You are not a bad person , please, please, don't let someone

elses problem define who you are !!!! Stop. You are good just

the way you are. I hope one day that you really believe that.

Sex addiction is rather like food addiction. We all have powerful sexual urges. Some guy named Darwin, or something.

Having said that, it is vital to remember that the G-15 are acting straight out of the Alpha Male playbook. They don't think sex is evil. They think that their sexual urges are just fine. It is *your* sexual urges that mark you out as defective. See the difference? As usual, it's all about control- namely, their God-given (as they suppose) right to control everybody else on the planet. Evil is increasingly defined by whatever challenges their positions of authority.

AMEN and Thank YOU! My ex has-been complained that I was a NYMPHO because I initiated sex and always tried to get more than once a week.

Yet, when our marriage crashed and I had NO desire to be with him sexually he complained to others that I withheld sex.

It took me years to actually like and want sex again. The most liberating relationship was experimenting with all sort of things that my then companion was floored and honored he got to be the FIRST with :)

RMM

It's not just MORmONISM.

I would like to *thank* THE catholic church and traditional Christianity for so thoroughly tainting human affairs to the extent of sucking all possible joy out of life.

Every women in the christian world gets to feel like trash because the virgin Mary - a woman who had the perfect child with out the taint of sexual intercourse (MORmONISM being a noted exception that dogma), is their ultimate role model.

The attendant psychological damage has been enormous and devastating.

*Thanks* again for that, Christianity.

exactly it's in the larger christian tradition past down from the quakers/menonites/calvanists. Sex is bad except for making babies in marriage.