Speaking of LDS scouting: July was the 24th anniversary of the loss of LDS scout Jared Negrete in California's Mt. San Gorgonio wilderness area near LA. Negrete got tired out on the hike to the summit, and the leaders left him behind and told him to sit and wait until they returned. But when they got back he was nowhere to be seen and has never been found.

Seems like an accident that could only happen among LDS scouts.

Bummer. Apparently Jared went exploring and didnt stay put nor listen. What would you expect from a teenager. The scout leaders were spread thin as always and were left with few options. One boy messed up the routine and is now dead bc the leaders saud the show must go on.

There is no such thing as "spread too thin." If you're spread to thin, you don't do the activity! In Girl Scouts, a scout is never left on her own. One leader would stay with the scout. The other leader(s) would either go on with the other girls or the whole group would stay there.

As Girl Scout Leaders we often groused about the sometimes anal retentive rules we had to follow about prior approvals, etc., but safety was always primary!

In Job's Daughter's we have a 5 to one adult to child rule so you can never end up too thin. If that happened we would leave one and still have enough adults to supervise the rest. At camp we actually would go 3 to 1 so we could spread ourselves out as volunteers. No child would have been left on their own.

Well, isn't it interesting that the hiking party consisted of the scout leader and 6 (six) boys. Apparently poor Jared was one too many. . .

If you know anything of the rest of the story, Jared had fallen behind and the other boys wanted to race to the top of the mountain. Be sure to take a look at the search area, and the rapid elevation changes next to the trail:

http://caltopo.com/m/5G1K

But worse, he likely got off track at one of the many splits the trails take. It is likely he got too close to the edge to look over or who knows, and took a serious fall. His body was likely covered over by falling rock from his fall. . .

Needless to say, the person that bears the brunt of the responsibility was the scout master and the other boys that ran off and left him alone. News reports stated it was his FIRST trip into the woods. The kid likely found himself alone and freaked. .. I can't blame him, been there and done that about 1970. I still remember it vividly.

Listen to bordergirl. She's right. It's not something the Girl Scouts would ever do. And you never allow minors to be on their own. The Mormon Scout leaders messed up with a capital F, leaving a child alone for hours to sit on a rock somewhere. Was it hot and sunny? Did he have enough water? Did he go into the woods to escape the heat, then fell asleep, while the others pass him by? There are a hundred scenarios that could have played out. In the end, his disappearance and death was the result of typically lackadaisical and often deadly Mormon scouting.

There is no excuse, ever, for leaving a child alone in such a situation. The first rule when taking a group of kids *anywhere* that is away from home is that no-one is ever to be allowed to be entirely on his own.

In the wilderness, this is doubly true. There are so many hazards present that to leave a child behind is simply an act of criminal negligence. Whether the law prosecutes the adults responsible or not, it is still that serious.

The adults who left the boy behind can only have acted out of profound irresponsibility and arrogance. They are fully to blame for the terrible results. Make no mistake about it --- no self-serving, after-the-fact excuses can cover up their awful stupidity in leaving that child.

Children in a group setting MUST always have an adult supervisor available. A public school teacher could be fired or severely disciplined for leaving a child unattended for even a few minutes.

Teens don't mind? Any child of any age might fail to follow a directive. It's a common occurrence. That's why responsible adults need to oversee whatever kids do.

It's very harsh and unfair to blame a child for acting their age.

As a Boy Scout, BIC, in an LDS Troop, I went on two "week-long" backpack trips in the sierras.

My first, when I was only 12 yrs old, they allowed me to go without a belly-strap on my cheap, Thrifty Drug Store backpack.

Seer torture.

We got lost on the first day.

Another boy and leader separated.

That boy got a wicked cut in his face, leaving an enormous scar.

That trip lasted two days.


On the second trip we got lost on the second day, and had to make dry camp.

Luckily we ran into a truck on the fire road that we started blindly following, and it took us back to base camp.

That trip only lasted 3 days.

At least three LDS Scouts died in or near Zion Nat Park. One fell, one drown in a canyon expedition, one got lost... I noticed a family sued BSA when they should have sued the church.

"Jared, who was originally reported to be 13, had been on his first overnight hike when he reportedly fell behind his
fellow Scouts and was last seen struggling to keep up. Troop leader Dennis Knight, an experienced backpacker, told
Boy Scout officials that he decided to pick up Jared on the way down from the summit rather than go back for him.

"Mike Bassett, director of support services for 387 troops in the Boy Scouts' San Gabriel Valley Council, said Jared was
at least a Second Class Scout. 'He's had basic map and compass training,' Bassett said, adding that he did not know if Jared had a map and compass with him. 'He has basic skills.'

"As searchers combed through the forest, Jared's parents, Philip and Linda Negrete, awaited word in their El Monte home. Tris Morris, a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which the Negretes attend, said the family felt no animosity toward Knight. 'They feel nothing but love and respect for Dennis,' Morris said. 'They've been over to his house. No one blames him.'"

- - http://www.micro-mono.com/docs/boyscout.pdf

Reading this just makes me feel sick. That the leader just went on without searching for the boy is stunning. That the leader was "an experienced backpacker" makes it even more shocking. What an arrogant, thoughtless fool. I can't imagine letting that man get away with this kind of negligence. I don't think that I'd be saying the equivalent of "Oh, I've been to Dennis's house. How could I ever blame him for leaving my child to die, alone, in the wilderness?"

What horribly misguided love that is.

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Jared, who was originally reported to be 13, had
> been on his first overnight hike when he
> reportedly fell behind his
> fellow Scouts and was last seen struggling to keep
> up. Troop leader Dennis Knight, an experienced
> backpacker, told
> Boy Scout officials that he decided to pick up
> Jared on the way down from the summit rather than
> go back for him.
>
> "Mike Bassett, director of support services for
> 387 troops in the Boy Scouts' San Gabriel Valley
> Council, said Jared was
> at least a Second Class Scout. 'He's had basic
> map and compass training,' Bassett said, adding
> that he did not know if Jared had a map and
> compass with him. 'He has basic skills.'
>
> "As searchers combed through the forest, Jared's
> parents, Philip and Linda Negrete, awaited word in
> their El Monte home. Tris Morris, a member of the
> Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which
> the Negretes attend, said the family felt no
> animosity toward Knight. 'They feel nothing but
> love and respect for Dennis,' Morris said.
> 'They've been over to his house. No one blames
> him.'"
>
> - - http://www.micro-mono.com/docs/boyscout.pdf


Amazing, lots of people here want to ascribe blame, but offer little else.

Yes, the scout leader made a grievous mistake. Apparently, there was a group of Jared and 5 other scouts and the scout leader. At some point, the 5 other scouts decided to "race to the top" leaving the boy behind. I have personally seen this behavior in boys before.

I suspect the boy was not in the best physical shape, did not have a map or compass, or more importantly and manner of device for signaling. The last photograph was apparently him sliding down a section of rocky mountain. He was likely injured and possibly buried under an avalanche of rock as no other trace was found.

I have no connection with scouting and certainly not California. What was the problem with LDS scouting groups? Has it been solved in the ensuing years?

90 percent of Mormon scouts and I'd wager 75 percent of mormon scout leaders do not have basic survival or wilderness training.

We never once had map or compass training. Never had to start a fire without matches. Rarely practiced first aid. But we all made eagle scout in 5 years.

Our explorer leader was a vietnam vetern who assumed we'd be drafted. I learned more from him in a year than the previous 5 years. We also learned non scout approved skills like knife fighting, escape and evasion and basic hand to hand moves. We did some basic marksmanship too, but the scouts actually have merit badges for that.

I love that story, I can just envision the "knife fighting" merit badge....

Lets not forget the LDS's favorite trick. When the "regular" boys become of age, they are ejected from the compound so as to reduce pressure for extra wives for the older perverts, er-a Senior members of the LDS.

Despicable fatherless individuals ALL. Anyone that fell for John Smiths crap about being given golden texts to translate with a seer stone, was NOT playing with a full deck. Apparently, neither are their scout leaders.

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Jared, who was originally reported to be 13, had
> been on his first overnight hike when he
> reportedly fell behind his
> fellow Scouts and was last seen struggling to keep
> up. Troop leader Dennis Knight, an experienced
> backpacker, told
> Boy Scout officials that he decided to pick up
> Jared on the way down from the summit rather than
> go back for him.
>
> "Mike Bassett, director of support services for
> 387 troops in the Boy Scouts' San Gabriel Valley
> Council, said Jared was
> at least a Second Class Scout. 'He's had basic
> map and compass training,' Bassett said, adding
> that he did not know if Jared had a map and
> compass with him. 'He has basic skills.'
>
> "As searchers combed through the forest, Jared's
> parents, Philip and Linda Negrete, awaited word in
> their El Monte home. Tris Morris, a member of the
> Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which
> the Negretes attend, said the family felt no
> animosity toward Knight. 'They feel nothing but
> love and respect for Dennis,' Morris said.
> 'They've been over to his house. No one blames
> him.'"
>
> - - http://www.micro-mono.com/docs/boyscout.pdf

I wonder if anyone hikes the same path towards where Jared's camera was found to reexamine the area for possible place where his remains may be still at.

There have also been deaths in Grand Canyon and Yellowstone that involved LDS Boy Scout troops that had poor leadership, ill-prepared, inexperienced kids/leaders. When park rangers see boy scouts coming in they warn each other to be on high alert because they have a reputation for getting into scrapes, and obviously deadly situations more so than any other visitors. So, not only do LDS troops have a reputation among non-LDS troops, but also among rangers in the parks they hike/camp at. What is very sad and frustrating is so many of their accidents could have been prevented with just a little education and heeding the posted warnings. I read about these things in Death in Yellowstone and Death in the Grand Canyon. Very eye-opening books that anyone who visits should read.

every summer we take our NYC scouts (it's a coed troop) on a high adventure trek, sometimes out west in the morridor.

NPS and BLM personnel always treat us with scorn until I tell them we are non-kolobian.

Their attitude towards us does a one-eighty instantly and they become very supportive.

Every time.

Besides the above record that I found, there's another internet posting that describes Jared's scout leader as being unaware that Jared was separated from the troop until he was at or very near the summit, when he was told by a member or members of another scout troop that they had passed Jared during their climb to the top.

Jared's troop leader was reported in the other story to have said the same thing to the other scout leader, that he would collect Jared on their way down.

So it would seem that this was not a case of the scout leader being aware of the situation and telling Jared to 'wait here and we'll pick you up on the way down.' Under that version most of the onus transfers to Jared for not waiting...

Instead we are now allowed to put all the blame on the scoutmaster, for not being aware of what was going on at the rear of his column. It seems to be common sense to put someone with a bit of savvy at the rear of the column, for just this reason.

I was thinking of this case when I said that LDS boy scouting is a joke and that it contributes to boys getting lost on hikes, and in the worst case scenario, causing deaths. There were also those 2 leaders who destroyed that rock feature in Utah, and they were Mormon adults.

here's a Utah one... never found Garrett Beardsley

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/595086737/Searchers-find-missing-Boy-Scouts-sock.html?pg=all

Having backpacked the Sierra Nevada mountain range for 30 years, there are certain rules that MUST be followed whether a one day outing or 4 weeks. You will get in trouble if you do NOT follow them. Harsh - absolutely -

The rules weren't followed here. And it's not just the BSA that this has happened too.

In Utah the scouts seem to write off about 2 scouts a year in these activitys. And it's usually a Mormon scout troop.

There was another thread complaining that the girls at church don't get enough money to do things like scouting that the boys do. Perhaps they should be grateful.

There are those of us who are convinced that this young man was kidnapped and never died on that mountain. Why? No birds of prey were seen circling. If he was on that mountain, they would have been circling. Plus, in the intervening 24 years there have been numerous fires on Grayback (AKA: Mt. San Gorgonio) and no human remains have been found that could be him.

Ockham's Razor would have him fall to his death and get scavenged, I think.

Kidnapped is a lot more romantic and allows hope to spring eternal for the parents.

Possible, of course. But I have to agree with the former theories.

Really tragic story.

The reason there were never any circling birds is two fold. If anyone DID see any, they never reported it. BUT more likely, the boy was buried in a rock slide that covered his body on a significant fall.

His body is there somewhere. Sooner or later his skeletal remains will turn up.

They did find his camera. I remember his story well and I am sure Aaron O is still telling it. Glad to see you have surfaced Marv.

A terrible story. This is the first I have heard of it.

When I was about 14 our LDS Boy Scout Troop went on a 50 mile canoe trip. The canoe I was placed in could not keep up (2 fat lazy companions and little me) with the older boys and leaders. We were alone on the river for over 12 hours. We finally arrived at the stopper point for the first day 6 hours behind everyone else (it was after midnight). The Scout Master had finally called the Sheriff to come and look for us. The Sheriff was putting their boat into the water when we arrived.

Did the LDS leader learn anything? Nope - they left boys behind all the time.

When I turned 12 I was sent to Scout Camp for a week. I had never even been to a Scout Meeting. When it was over, the Scout Master told me one of the parents had not shown up to carry everyone home and he left me all alone at Scout Camp. I waited several hours until I told by the people running the camp that I had to leave. My parents found me walking alone on the road trying to carry my pack.

The LDS version of Boy Scouts is a dangerous game for young boys. Surprised more are not lost, killed or raped.

Being abandoned sucks.

...or just kicked, hit, shoved, ridiculed, and gossiped-about

My boys had two early-morning paper routes on Sundays, and would sometimes fall asleep afterwards, and be late for church. The Scout and Priesthood leaders in our ward would walk into my house, when I was already at church, doing my calling. They would go into my boys' rooms, and yank them out of bed, while still asleep, and scream at them. When the boys fell on the floor, the leaders would kick them until they got up. They would force my boys to get dressed, without showering or even combing their hair, and then they would literally "kick their butt" down the stairs, and shove them into a van, and drive them to church. At church, the leaders and the boys would tease them and call them names.

I don't think those men would have done this, if there had been a father in the house. One of the bullies came into our house to force my youngest son to go to a WM activity, when I had told the man, in person, that my son had a big test and a paper due, and needed to stay home and study. I heard thumping, and came into my living room to see the leader man-handling my boy, and practically carrying him towards the door. Even when I shouted at him to leave my son alone, and that he was trespassing--the man kept arguing with me, and would not let my boy go. By then, my son was crying. I screamed that I was head of this household, and that my orders were that my son was to stay home, and that I was going to call the police! He finally left. This same man was promoted to Stake President, and a Mission President. His own son got a girl pregnant, and had to delay his mission one year. The baby disappeared into church social services, and life went on.

Mormons are NOT the kind of people who respect women and children. I will never forgive myself for allowing my children to be alone with these people, without my supervision. Mormons are strangers behind a mask of "fellowship." It is MY BAD that I allowed my BIC brainwashing to cloud my judgment, putting my children in harm's way. (We all resigned from the cult together.)

Who says someone is "Qualified?" They say so. Mormons are self-proclaimed authorities--with no credentials whatsoever. They can't be trusted to interview our kids behind a closed door, they can't be trusted not to physically abuse our children, they can't be trusted to respect the human rights of others! The Mormon's very philosophy is anti-human rights towards gays, women, innocent children, apostates, other religions, drinkers, people who have tattoos, people who dress wrong, and the hate-list goes on and on.

Don't trust Mormons with your children.
(Don't trust Mormons in business, either.)

Simple Q: do mormon scouts/youth groups have a higher % of accidents and death than other groups? In many of my experiences I recall an almost active "non supervision". I'm a little surprised there aren't nore dead kids.

Clearly, leaving the boy alone while others went up the mountain was a terrible decision.

When hiking with a group of adults, it could be OK to leave somebody alone for a while when part of the group goes up the mountain.

My son was once on a trip to climb the high-elevation volcanoes in Mexico. There were 4 climbers: the guide, a father/daughter pair, and my son. All were adults. The young lady was terribly out of shape, and had no chance of getting to the top.

They left the lady by herself while the other 3 climbed to the summit. The father was OK with leaving his adult daughter. They left her with warm clothes in a good location, and food and a campstove to cook and/or keep warm. Everything worked out fine.