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Posted by: foolsgold ( )
Date: April 12, 2011 03:13AM

So I just heard that Levi Savage the famed pioneer who encouraged the handcart pioneers to not leave so late, but said he would go with them and if needed die with them....well the rest of the story.

It would appear that one of the women in this Martin/Willey group took a liking to him and they were married about a year after they arrived in Salt Lake. BUT HERE IS THE KICKER....this lady had two daughters, one 7 and the other 9, and ten years after he raised these step daughters, the now 17 year old and 19 year old girls were married by Levi Savage! HE MARRIED...HAD SEX WITH....HAD CHILDREN WITH....HIS OWN CHILDREN!!!!

So one of the most famous hand cart pioneers...the poster child of handcarts...turns out be a child molester...right?

Has anyone else come across this? Mentioned anywhere? Is it true?

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Posted by: Savage Descendant ( )
Date: April 12, 2011 05:14AM

I'm a descendant of Levi Savage Jr. (March 23, 1820 – December 13, 1910) and I've been to several family reunions for his descendants and I've read his journal several times. So I'm quite familiar with the story/circumstances. I do believe the girls were 18 and 19 when he married them. And yes as a TBM I found this story quite odd. Nevertheless it was true that he married his stepdaughters.

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Posted by: nonmo ( )
Date: April 12, 2011 11:40AM

Savage Descendant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm a descendant of Levi Savage Jr. (March 23,
> 1820 – December 13, 1910) and I've been to
> several family reunions for his descendants and
> I've read his journal several times. So I'm quite
> familiar with the story/circumstances. I do
> believe the girls were 18 and 19 when he married
> them. And yes as a TBM I found this story quite
> odd. Nevertheless it was true that he married his
> stepdaughters.


So he was Woody Allen's and Morgan Freeman's role model then??

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Posted by: Lucky ( )
Date: July 12, 2011 01:03AM

so is this Levi Savage the inspiration for Herchel Savage ?

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Posted by: ExMormonRon ( )
Date: July 12, 2011 09:01AM

Lucky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> so is this Levi Savage the inspiration for Herchel
> Savage ?

Bwhahahahahahaha! I doubt Levi was hung like Herschel, but...

Ron

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Posted by: Chloe ( )
Date: April 12, 2011 08:13AM

They were NOT his children.

Odd perhaps but not a perversion.

Mormons have always had a somewhat unusual lifestyle which set them apart from regular society right from the start.

Which makes the morg's present day harping on sex and fake morality quite ridiculous.

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Posted by: Stumbling ( )
Date: April 12, 2011 08:15AM

'They were NOT his children'

this should read

They were not his biological children they were his stepchildren

That still looks like peversion to me...

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Posted by: wings ( )
Date: April 12, 2011 12:48PM

Stumbling Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 'They were NOT his children'
>
> this should read
>
> They were not his biological children they were
> his stepchildren
> > That still looks like peversion to me...


This was not odd in early Utah Mormonism. Many bio sisters were sealed to the same man. Men were sealed to a woman and her daughter(s). I have about all the types of polygamy one can imagine in my family tree.

It is amazing I have any normalcy considering the gene pool I come from ;) I also am disturbed when people defend the behavior of their ancestors like Brigham Young or one of the other perverts infamous because of this perverted cult.....and yes, I do consider them perverted. Polygamy damages everyone. The children and wives are objects and possessions...and disposable.

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Posted by: nonmo ( )
Date: April 12, 2011 11:42AM

Chloe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They were NOT his children.
>
> Odd perhaps but not a perversion.
>


I disagree..it IS a perversion...This guy spent 10 yrs as these girls' guardian/parent.

To then "all of a sudden" develop romantic/sexual feelings for someone you've parented IS perverted...

Ask any shrink....

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Posted by: jerry64 ( )
Date: April 12, 2011 06:58PM

we can't be sure the feelings started after 10 years passed

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Posted by: Makurosu ( )
Date: April 12, 2011 08:42AM

I've got a couple of mother-daughter-threesome marriages in my Mormon family history. In one case the daughter was 16 when she married her stepfather. Well, I should say it's not so unusual for Mormons. Mormons are pervs. Levi Savage should have gotten an award for nailing both his stepdaughters. Mormons want to tell everyone what a family is and how we should define marriage, because they are a moral authority dontcha know.

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Posted by: Rod ( )
Date: April 12, 2011 10:03AM

which is very sad, by the way (i.e. that perversion was the norm/baseline for that cult).

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: April 12, 2011 10:09AM

This still goes on in many mormon polygamous groups. The fathers marry step daughters. They sometimes "initiate" blood daughters before handing them off to priesthood friends. The girls sometimes marry step or half brothers, uncles, and cousins. It's sick and it causes birth defects and mental problems.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: April 12, 2011 10:11AM


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Posted by: tony ( )
Date: April 12, 2011 11:43AM


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Posted by: wings ( )
Date: April 12, 2011 12:09PM

Bill, one of the Lost Boy Mormon boys from Juniper Creek, was taken in by Barb's parents as a teen. He converted to the LDS branch of Mormonism, or so the original concept was in the early days of the production.

My own twisted family on one side believed in the pure blood line concept. (Like the Kingston Clan). My Great-Grandma was impregnated by her Father with her first child, as was her older sister. This was one of the early settlers of the Sugarhouse area. One of our RfM board friends is also related to this line. He and I share the same 6th gener for me, 7th gener for him...Grandparents.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: April 12, 2011 01:34PM

is this. If Bill was taken in as a son by Barb's parents, then he and Barb had to have lived as brother and sister for several years. I'd consider their marriage as bordering on incestuous.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: April 12, 2011 10:13AM

Enquiring minds like mine want to know.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: April 12, 2011 02:55PM

I have not watched a Woody Allen film since that debacle... Mormons probably never watched him in the first place because of the adultish themes of his movies.

For me, boycotting Allen is an easy call...

Mia Farrow was one of those "children of Hollywood" who was caught up in that culture's huge "darkside element" when she married Frank Sinatra, and she managed to rise above it becoming an incredible humanitarian with her work in Africa (much as Ashley Judd has who was featured on "Hardball" this week).

Woody--as an agnostic I'm quite not the unbeliever you are, and I note the Universe certainly "knew" what it was doing giving him that name--revealed himself as an utter adolescent, engaging in conduct unbecoming of an adult.

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Posted by: verdacht ( )
Date: April 12, 2011 06:50PM

Gotta love Woody. Regardless of how you feel about what he did, he's a great talent.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: July 12, 2011 11:57AM

Just to pay a little homage to good ol' Godwin...

Some things I'm not willing to overlook, and frankly my sensibility is educated enough these days I feel comfortable dismissing Allen as a minor talent who's never matured beyond his narrow-minded focus on the essential adolescence of the human race.

HIs former wife, Mia Farrow, has far surpassed his humanity with her own efforts on behalf of the starving, war-torn people of Africa...

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Posted by: Reader ( )
Date: April 12, 2011 11:27AM

According to LDS online family history records, here's the timeline:

Ann Brummel Cooper (a widow of George Cooper, who died in 1854) had two daughters with her on the handcart trek (a third daughter, 2 yrs. old, died just before they headed out on the plains). The two girls were Mary Ann Cooper, age 6 (she would turn 7 on 11/22/1856), and Adelaide Cooper, age 4 (she would turn 5 on 11/28/1856).

About 6 years AFTER the handcart trek, the girls' mother, Ann Brummel Cooper, married Levi Savage, on 1/24/1863, at which time Levi became the stepfather to Mary Ann (then age 13) and Adelaide (then age 11).

Over five years later, on October 17, 1868, Levi Savage married his stepdaughter Adelaide, then 16 years old (she would turn 17 the next month).

Just a week later, on October 24, 1868, Levi Savage married his stepdaughter Mary Ann, then 18 years old (she would turn 19 the next month).

I could find no record of Levi and Adelaide as having had children, but Levi and Mary Ann had 3 children, the first being born a little over 9 months after their marriage.

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Posted by: Chloe ( )
Date: April 12, 2011 01:23PM

Woody Allen did nothing wrong either.

The girl was of age and she was only his step daughter. Not even that, really, since only Mia Farrow adopted her.

Allen and Sun-yi are still married, so apparently it worked out for them.

People get too excited over other people's perfectly legal decisions.

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Posted by: nonmo ( )
Date: April 12, 2011 05:08PM

Chloe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Woody Allen did nothing wrong either.
>
> The girl was of age and she was only his step
> daughter. Not even that, really, since only Mia
> Farrow adopted her.
>
> Allen and Sun-yi are still married, so apparently
> it worked out for them.
>
> People get too excited over other people's
> perfectly legal decisions.


Uh...he spent time as her guardian and psuedo-parent. Woody's ex wife adopted her when she was ~10 yrs old...I'm guessing here..

Yes..you are correct. Woody and Sun Yi played it by the book, for their marriage. When did the relationship start?? Before she was 18 I think..

Legal--yes technically. Still perverse by societal norms.....

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Posted by: Lillith ( )
Date: July 12, 2011 12:43AM

Big Love, the reality show is watched by whom? And who does it titilaaaaate or entertain? Woody Allen judged by the less conservative morals of today when anything goes? Now Native Americans can use drugs in their religion, ie, break the law but for Congressional approval or permission.

We are so modern aren't we? Now the Mormons (mainstream Mormons) once had a religious mandate for the more righteous or prosperous and upright faith and following their religion are judged by people with no understanding of the times or beliefs. Without a child, no one can know if the marriage to the 17 yr old was ever consumated (but we can judge a man by our own dirty minds, can't we?) Until you have walked in someone shoes...

The other polyg cult formed their own fundamentalist thing and left the main main church after Mainstream Mormons (does that pain you to read "mainstream" and "Mormon" together? Mormons by law have no protection as do other minorities since by US law, they are "mainstreamed") issued a manifesto giving up practice of poligamy. Their deeds, theirs, main church theirs and critics and anti-Mormons theirs.

Funny facts? Utah is one state with law against polygamy in states constitution. Gay marriage in states such a new one in New York will make for more change in social mores. How many of the modern judges would call gays perverts? Out loud and in public? When it all gets reshuffled about and the dust settles, will polygamy be okay as another type of "marriage"? The Us already has serial polygamy where a prominent man marries, and remarries and remarries, casting off the former (Movie stars and Trump rich and famous. When okay in other states, Utah is covered. Will Utah then be forced by Congress to allow polygamous marriages? Save a lot of medicaid and welfare monies maybe.

One thing that will not change is the judge not law in the Bible. And anonymity of blogs won't nullify laws of Heaven. In my opinion, Levi Savage, Jr. will fare better than his judges. But then, bring in old-fashioned moralities of our antecedents and it spoils all the fun, doesn't it?

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Posted by: poor persecuted mormons ( )
Date: July 12, 2011 06:38AM

Native American having more religious rights than Mormons? Don't even try to go there. You have no idea what you are talking about.

I have no more patience for the Mormon "poor persecuted me" bullshit.

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Posted by: ExMormonRon ( )
Date: July 12, 2011 12:00PM

Dude! They can eat/smoke peyote! Makes me wanna sign up yesterday, except I'm WAY too white and delightsome.

Ron

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Posted by: poor persecuted mormons ( )
Date: July 12, 2011 12:10PM

Dance grass, don't smoke it!

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Posted by: piper ( )
Date: April 12, 2011 05:02PM

I believe when you raise a child as your own, you have a parental relationship with them, and as such it is highly inappropriate to have a romantic relationship with them. Mormon perverts. Woody Allen and his adopted step daughter would have fit right in, if he hadn't divorced her mother first.

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Posted by: Heresy ( )
Date: July 12, 2011 12:54PM

house, and it doesn't matter if the relationship is biological, legal, or even a foster kid.

It is a form of statuatory rape in my mind to develop a romantic relationship with someone you raised.

Polygamy was introduced to Mormons with no rules. It broke down their taboos and they floundered - a lot.

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Posted by: oddoneout ( )
Date: July 12, 2011 12:45PM

Woody Allan and Mia Farrow were never married.

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