Are they pointing to any specific group of people we already know and calling them the Lamenites or are they saying that they also dissapeared just like the Nephites, Jaredites, Mulekites?

Good point. I thought the Lamanites were the survivors of the BOM that would have populated the new world in ignorance throughout the generations until they would be delivered?

If the DNA shows the native peoples of the Americas are not descendants of Israel, where the heck are those people who were supposed to blossom like a rose??

Cleveland, perhaps?

From Wikipedia:

"Mormons beginning with Joseph Smith have historically identified Lamanites with indigenous Americans, and sometimes even Polynesians. Scholars outside Mormonism do not consider the term Lamanite as a category of real people, or accept the Book of Mormon as a valid source of ancient American history. Mormon scholars, representing a small minority view, have identified a few alternative locations in the ancient New World where they hypothesize Lamanites described in the Book of Mormon might have lived, the most popular of which is Mesoamerica.

Traditionally, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) taught that Lamanites were "the principal ancestors of the American Indians." In 2007, the church changed this teaching to the belief that that Lamanites were "among" the ancestors of American Indians."

- - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamanite

From what little I know of the matter (which is SO embarrassing, given that I AM a Lamanite!) the most embarrassing sustained mormon/Lamanite 'action' took place during the reign of emperor Spencer W. Kimball. Please Google Spencer W. Kimball + Lamanites for the extremely embarrassing details. If anyone asks you why you're there, tell them Zelph sent you...

While on a mission many years ago- A very attractive LDS Navaho girl (with perfect skin) was very upset to learn she was cursed and asked me if it was true that she would have white skin after she was ressurected. I committed a doctrinal lie and told her she could probably have any color skin she wanted. Lying for the lord.

Dumb religion.

Rank and file mormons still go around making statements about American Indians, Polynesians, Eskimos, etc. being "Lamanites."

The church officially has backed off (though not officially denied) such claims. They're essentially, though not officially now, saying "we don't know." Mainly because they're afraid of making a new official statement that science will show false in short order.

Yes, how wonderful it is to have a living prophet, who can ask god tough questions and get answers. Hehe.

http://mit.irr.org/lamanites-no-more-dna-and-lost-ties-father-lehi



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2015 09:14PM by ificouldhietokolob.

I think the church tries to stay away from the topic, but it's obvious that many still believe what has been taught previously. Didn't Nelson refer to a group of members in Argentina as Lamanites just last year?...even though most of them are light skinned with European ancestry? Packer's obituary also said that much of his work as an apostle was among the Lamanites...interesting that he spent much of his life serving a fictional people.

This is the tragedy of Mormonism. Packer will be held in such high esteem by his family and TBMs yet, as Chump says, ".interesting that he spent much of his life serving a fictional people".

The reality is a life wasted on perpetuating a fraud and persecuting people for their sexual orientation and everyone for a natural (and healthy) act such as masturbation.

Oh Boyd, what a wasted life. If you had just embraced reality and devoted your life to improving the lot of mankind, then we could be proud of you. Instead you are regarded as a bigot and most of your so called "brethren" actually despised and feared you.

+1

I keep asking my samoan co-worker if she is a lamanite.
She doesn't know.

She's probably wondering wtf a Lamanite is.

You're right, the Lamanites are the BOM survivors.

Will the real Lamanites please stand up.

The church still hasn't answered this one. Mainly because they can't. The apologists have tried some pretty lame and incredulously naive explanations. This is a show stopper for most thinking people.

Maybe, just maybe, the BOM is just poorly written fiction. Oh wait, that's not true, because we all know it's the most correct Book on the planet.

Oh well, for now, let's just ignore yet another entire branch of Science and act like nothing is different. And to me, that's exactly what they are doing.


Don't ask the hard questions. Just pray, pay, and obey.

invinoveritas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Don't ask the hard questions. Just pray, pay, and
> obey.


^^^It works every time. ;)

The LDS church doesn't say that they disappeared.

Well according to Joseph Smith and the Lord Jesus Christ (Doctrine and Covenants) the American Indians in North America were certainly 'Lamanites' (Mormon scripture).

John Taylor, as President of the 12, said they were the American Indians per the 12's 'Proclamation to the World'.

Later prophets, including Spencer W. Kimblall, identified them as the peoples of the American Continent, Polynesia and even the Maoris of Australia.

Because this is all patently untrue, current apologists claim the Lehites were just a small group of immigrants who married into the already existing indigenous people and their Hebrew DNA has, therefore, disappeared.

Even GBH taught the same as SWK that the Lamanites are the current natives of America and Polynesia. I took my family to the Hawaiian Cultural Center in 1977. 100% sure the students and villages (including Fiji, Tonga etc.) were taught and considered themselves 'Lamanites'. Remember the 'Lamanite Generation Program'.

Conveniently TSCC drops the emphasis of its past statements when they are proven absolutely false. The apologists, in contrast, change the doctrine and claim the old teachings never were official doctrine.

The simplest explanation that answers all of the questions is "Joseph made it all up". Just as I said to one apologist, I am not going to waste time arguing what brand of broomstick Harry Potter used for Qudditch.

More and more I think they'll be forced to try to rationalize the Book of Mormon with things that aren't actually in it. This idea about other peoples living here that conveniently aren't mentioned seems likely, in my opinion, to just be the beginning as they then continue down this type of apologetic road. It will be almost entirely an act of creativity before long rather than an act of research or science (which it so obviously isn't for the most part already!). This is a strategic dead end I sincerely hope TSCC sticks to.

edit: one part was a little unclear when I looked at it again...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2015 03:03PM by masonfree.

The lack of ANY supportive archaeological evidence and DNA showing no Israelite ancestors basically fries them.

There only answer is a Limited Geography Theory (they were somewhere in Mesoamerica and we haven't found them yet) and they were only a few people who interbred with indigenous natives (so no DNA).

Problem is these excuses give them other headaches. If the LGT is true (goes completely against the actual text, the teachings of JS. the Lord in D&C, and all prophets up to and including GBH) then it should be easier to find evidence, because it is in one small place (e.g. Vera Cruz) instead of scattered somewhere across the American Continent.

The small number of immigrants interbreeding with millions of indigenous natives goes completely against the text. and 180 years of church teachings, as printed in their official manuals which went through correlation.

Give up TSCC and admit the BoM is a work of 19th century fiction. There are no Lamanites, neither were there Nephites nor Jaredites. There were Clovis, Mayans, Aztecs, Olnecs, Apaches, Comanches, Sioux etc. but NO LEHITES, get it.

What the appologetic clowns conveniently forget is that Mormondumb also claims that there was a global flood, which would have had the unfortunate effect of killing everyone in Central America who are supposed to be the people on which the LGT is based.

Stupid cult, and really, really stupid apologists.

Back when I was a missionary in the early '70s, the church was 100% certain the indigenous people of the New World and Polynesia were direct descendants of Lehi, because that's what I was instructed to teach. About a third of the missionaries in the Alberta-Saskatchewan Mission were assigned to proselytize only "Lamanites." We had boxes of special teaching materials -- flip charts, film strips, tapes -- and special discussions, the first two of them teaching explicitly that modern native people are Lamanites.

But now? Mmmmmmmmmmm, that topic isn't essential for one's salvation.

Same here. Spanish-speaking mission late 70's. Special materials, emhasis on Jesus appearing to their ancestors, etc.
The BOM is fiction.

While the sheeple get DNA tests to see where they are from, they are ignorant, dismissive, or unaware of the DNA research on the origins of the indigenous people of the Americas/Canada. Science has caught up with old Joe's BOM fiction.

Steve Benson provided a number of postings about DNA research on this board and it's worth another look.

Did you avoid mentioning that the Lamanites were the bad guys, the cursed race, and all that? We did.

Haven't they always claimed that Native American Indians were the Lamanites???

I was taught back in 2005 by a Polish Sister Missionary aged 35 ( 15 years a convert member) that the AmerIndians were Lamanites, descendants of Lehi's rebel sons Laman and Lemuel.

A little later in 2006 I was also taught by two white American missionaries that negroes are the less valiant from the pre existence and they were banned from the Priesthood (until 1978)for that reason.

If neither are true then why are set apart so called missionaries ( Ministers of religion) teaching falsehoods?

I was repeatedly told that if you want to know what a Mormon believes then ask a Mormon. So I did.

No one said if you want to know what a Mormon believes ask FAIR or FARMS for the newest revisions.

invinoveritas

"Maybe, just maybe, the BOM is just poorly written fiction"

I have heard it described as a poorly written, heavily plagiarized, nonsensical, 19th century work of fiction.

I'm still fuzzy in this area. I guess where I get stumped is in figuring out what a true Israelite or Jew is?
1) Are they from Spain? (ummm no, because that's a mixture of Moores kelts, scythians, etc)
2) Are they from turkey? (umm no again because they are a mixture of Romanesque with arabians)
3) Are they from Israel? (umm no because that's a melting pot of people from all over Eastern Europe and russia, and they are Mediterranean looking)
4) Are they from Russia? We are getting closer to a pure line and what an inbred race looks like.
5) Are they from Scandinavia? Bingo that's as pure a race as can be found. But wait Scientists/Hitler doesn't look at blond, blue eyes, small nose, Aryan, effeminate features as Jews.

Are the scientists the ones who are confused? They should be seeing if the lamanites/Jews match the Scandinavians.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2015 10:43PM by poopstone.

On August 3, 2014, the Mormon Church aired a TV show on its own
Channel 5 flagship television station (NBC) in Salt Lake City.
It was narrated by Joseph L. Allen and entitled, “Who are the Lamanites?

Finally, at the very end of the half hour show they said,

“....Who are the Lamanites of the latter days?”
Simple, valid answer: "By their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matthew 7:20)

Simple, Yes
Valid, (I don't think there are words to adequately describe how I feel about its validity.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2015 11:04PM by heretic.