I just asked the Mormons at Mormon.org this question....
Thank you for your interest in chatting with a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. What would you like to talk about?
T
Hello
B
I had a question about an article I read on Mormon.org recently, Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo. It says Joseph Smith claimed other men's wives as his own. Is that true? How does that not violate God's commandment against coveting your neighbor's wife and adultery? Not to mention the Law of the land and the law of the Priesthood?
S
Hello Boyd, it seems you have been transferred to Daniel and myself. How are you?
B
Good. Did you see my question above?
S
I did, where on Mormon.org were you reading exactly if you can help us see a little more context?
D
Hello!
B
Google "Plural Marriage in Krtland and Nauvoo" and you'll find it. I can't cut and paste in this program.
S
Oh, you are referring to this from lds.org; https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng
B
Yes.
S
And your question is on how is it not adultery?
B
In what context is claiming another man's wife as your own NOT adultery? How is it that a Prophet can violate 2 of God's commandments and not be damned? Didn't he also violate the Law of the Priesthood, by marrying other men's wives?
S
To be honest, I don't really know anything that isn't already shared in the article. But, what I do know is that I have been able to come to know Joseph Smith is a true prophet of God from the witness of the Holy Spirit in my life.
B
I imagine that's the same thing Fundamentalists say about Warren Jeffs. Thats the same thing Muslims say about Mohamed.
D
What are you hoping to get out of chatting with us today, Boyd?
B
An honest answer.
S
That is why we encourage every person to seek for their own answer from God.
B
How do you reconcile the facts with the law? The law is the law, not touchy feely. The law of the Priesthood, which Joseph claimed to have recieved from God, condemns wife swapping in 5 different ways and calls it adultery, yet you still sing the praises of an adulterer who swapped wives with his followers?
D
Boyd, have you ever investigated our church before?
B
I was a Mormon missionary once. I was Mormon for 40 years, but nobody EVER breathed a word about Joseph's other wives, especially the ones who were already married or the ones who were 14. That's child rape where I come from.
D
Do you know why Joseph Smith practiced plural marriage?
B
Why did the church lie for its whole history up until now?
Now chatting with Daniel & Seth D
I think you're assuming some things about the church. Do you know why Joseph practice plural marriage?
B
Because he wanted more action than Emma was willing to put out?
D
I don't believe that is true. I believe that he received commandments from God. I believe that he was a prophet of God, until his death, and that even to today, we are lead by a prophet of God. I'm sorry that you didn didn't hear about this for so long in the church. But I know that, even now, if you are willing to pray about this with an honest and penitent heart, God will bless you with the answers you seek.
B
I have prayed about it and God told me that it's wrong to have sex with a woman who's married to another man, that's adultery, just like he said in the 10 Commandments. He said adulterers were damned for eternity and we shouldn't be singing their praises.
D
How did your answers to your prayers come?
B
In my mind. I believe God is in all of us, in the form of a conscience, aka, Holy Ghost.
D
What feelings were associated with these answers?
B
I empathized with those men, like Henry Jacobs, who married the love of his life, Zina, who had been propositioned prior to their marriage, by Joseph Smith, who later claimed Zina as his wife, after she married Henry. Then when Joseph died, Brigham sent Henry on a mission and claimed Henry's wife and kids as his own. He stole Henry's only wife and kids and added them to his harem of over 50 wives. As if that wasn't bad enough, he then made babies with her, adding insult to injury. Brigham Young destroyed the man's family and his life by stealing his wife and kids. I am sympathetic with Henry.
S
There are many things I do not understand. But I know that in seeking an answer from God, knowing His direction for me, and knowing that the Book of Mormon is true helps me with what I do not understand.
B
WHat does God and the Book of Mormon have to say to you about your hero's practice of wife swapping? and child rape?
S
As I know the Book of Mormon is true, I can know that the prophet who brought it forth was also led by God.
B
So God told him to steal other men's wives? Where is that written?
S
As I said, I don't understand everything, but understanding a little helps me move forward.
B
I know where God said to NOT claim other men's wives as your own, in the 10 Commandments and in the Law of the Priesthood (D&C 132:61) So if God said otherwise, then that God is not the same God as the God of the Bible. Perhaps it was the phalic God Joseph identified in Figure 7 of Facsimile 2 in the Book of Abraham, the Egyptian God Min, who told him to claim other men's wives as his own. Is that the God you kneel before? The pagan God of Egypt you carry around in your scriptures, sporting a 2 ft. erection?
D
Please, Boyd, we are not going to debate this with you. We believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. The Spirit answers my prayers again and again, reaffirming that this is true. I feel the fruits of the Spirit: love, peace, joy, brotherly kindness, etc. We can only invite you to trust in God and continue to pray about this, completely willing to follow God. We wish you a lovely Sabbath. God bless you.
The chat session has ended.

I guess that God changed his mind about the 10th commandment -- at least temporarily. You know, because Joseph Smith was so *special.*

he sounds like a moron-bot...

But...<fact>

I know Joseph was a true prophet by my feelings.

But...<fact>

I know Joseph was a true prophet by my feelings.

But...<fact>

I know Joseph was a true prophet by my feelings.

(repeat endlessly)

Sigh.

This is insanity!! B and D are totally in denial. It seems to me that what they are saying is "Don't confuse the issue with facts. I have already made up my mind!!"

If you work backwards from the premise that Horney Joe was a profit and that's all there is to it, you can condone anything. Even massacring children is ok cuz god loved Brigham Young.

Great post! Thanks for sharing this!

You're just not praying correctly, Koriwhore! =[

Creepy, on so many levels. You must feel compelled to take a shower after those interactions. Ick.

I'm so sorry for the people you were talking to. They have no good answers and just keep bearing testiphony. How can people live like that?! How can anyone who knows those facts about JS still blindly cling to TSCC when they know it's not what it claims to be?! I'm just so sad over the blatant denial.

Intriguing post. Do appreciate your sharing.

Seems like in order to 'Man Up' on this website for the cult the person must have been trained by Oaks himself or Fair or retired Elder Dunn or....on and on and on....in the possibility of available and talented-forked-tongued-trainers.

I am surprised that as soon as you said that you were once a mormon missionary, and were a mormon for 40 years, that they didn't end the chat session right there. Could it be that the church is now training its missionaries to deal with former members who are educated, fully informed, and who are calling them on their crap? This is not characteristic of the mormon church that I know. I can see this backfiring on them as their missionaries stay engaged in the conversation long enough to say to themselves "you know... thus guy is right. Looks like I am working for a cult". I can see this chat missionary's shelf collapsing soon after getting home from his or her mission. The cycle from TBM to wounded/recovering former mormon will start going from years to only months. Whole families will start leaving the church after there is support for recovery coming right from within their own family.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2015 06:08AM by azsteve.

is a mental construct.

It's a mental construct that retards followers ability to distinguish right from wrong.
Anybody with a functioning conscience would say that it was clearly wrong, according to every law and common human decency, to steal another man's wife and children, to make babies with her after sending her real husband overseas on a mission.
But when Mormons hear that both BY and JS did just that, they're like, "There must have been some law that allowed it, otherwise God would have struck Joseph and Brigham dead."
Completely contradicting God's 10 Commandments, which clearly condemn coveting your neighbor's wife and adultery, as does the Mormons very own "Law of the Priesthood" (D&C 132:61)
When you ask them "Where is that law written?"
They bear their testies of JS and leave the conversation.

The LDS default position when legit questions and facts are presented: Their dopey puppet testimony response.

It's so very pathetic and childish. It's equivalent to sticking one's figures in one's ears and going "na na nana na. I'm not listening"

That circular thinking is why I can't deal with the CULT at all. Drives me nuts. They have NO thinking skills.

When youre in a Doomsday Sex Cult that forces you to swear a suicidal oath, to speak no evil of the Lord's Annointed, it enables you to overlook pure fucking evil, and pretend Joseph's Myth is worthy of emulation and praise. Its the same dynamic at work with the fundies, who refuse to characterize child tape as wrong, even while their False PRofit rots in prison for the rest of his life on child raoe convictions.

ONCE AGAIN****

The totally controlled mind ceases to acknowledge new facts that would invade it's paradigm and thereby cause a paradigmatic shift.

If it were to recognize new facts the psychological impact would be devastating.

Therefore, play the record over and over and ignore anything that is not on the record.

I suppose my mind was "totally controlled" when I was TBM, but I'd still listen to the voice of reason. I was still capable of critical thought.
Had anybody at any point in my 40 year career as a Mormon, told me that Joseph's Myth was a man whore who stole other men's wives and teenage daughters in order to spread his seed far and wide, I would have investigated the veracity of that claim. When, not IF, I found out that was true, I NEVER would have defended that kind of behavior. But now that the church has published that fact, Mormons act like it's just no big deal, that God had to have given Joseph's Myth a hall pass to boink as many women as he could handle, just because he was so much more special than the rest of us mere mortals.